Vaping...More harm then good? For me yes...Im done!!!!!!

[Krang]

I have read the entire thread and found all of this very interesting. I pretty much think that all that had to be said has been said, and I have nothing to add.

On another note I would like to point out to the_antisheep that I think you might of made a mistake while making your signature...

From my calculations, you would have been smoking 200 cigs a day and each cigarette would have cost you 250 000$
... just saying....

 

[beachman]

i cant say if e cigs are or are not harmful but rem all of you that are so quick to say they are not harmful i am old enough to rem when doctors and everyone else said analog cig were not harmful and maybe helpful alot of doc use to smoke in hospital rooms dr offices any where and said it wasnt harmful now look what they say so who knows.

 

[bigtimeweb]

what a marathon of a read! Bumpity bump for value of information.

 

[mel_vin]

@beachman this is so true. You guys want to trip out? Go to youtube and do a search for flinstone winston comercial. Not sure I can post the link, but here goes:

YouTube - Banned Commercial 1961 Flintstones Winston Cigarettes

crazy!!

 

[Wrainn]

Over 4000 chemical compounds are created by burning a cigarette, many of which are toxic and/or carcinogenic. Carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, hydrogen cyanide and ammonia are all present in cigarette smoke.


With that being said, it is very hard to believe that anyone would actually pick up an analog after having successfully quit. But to even compare analogs to e-cigs is crazy from what we know about e-cigs.

If you were trying to stop smoking analogs and found that the e-cig contained what the analog contained, would you even touch it, I doubt it as some are complaining about PG which is not NEAR as harmful as analog ingredients.

 

[tforce7878]

Their is risk involved with vaping as well as anything else one may do. Thanks to all who knows that vaping could present with some risk. I am not knocking e-vaporizers. I do know that in my job as I hand out a new medication prescribed by a medical doctor I and the patient are looking for side/adverse effects from that particular medication. Sometimes the patient presents with no known side effect and everything is great.

However, on the other hand a patient reports a side effect. As a nurse one monitors it. Do I dare say the patient is wrong. Heck no. Their potential side/adverse effects belong to them. I can only monitor and call the md to d/c that drug or obtain a different one. Do I blame the patient..heck no. Do I blame their other diagnosis...no.

I do believe vaping is safer than cigarettes. However, I do believe in the many people who have had adverse effects from them.

I completely agree with you Sdh. Really valid points.

 

[Avanna]

Granted, I am new to all this, so my observation may be totally off-base, but I'd like you all to look at this video:

YouTube - Electronic Cigarette-ecigarette: Featured on The Doctors TV Show.

At the 2:25 min mark, I could swear this doctor is having a hot flash. She has no idea what's happening. The other 3 doctors and the audience are clueless as well. Her physical reaction goes right over their heads as they continue laughing and joking around.

I'm not saying that vaping is dangerous. In fact, in moderation and for use in getting off cigarettes, I'm all for it. But I'd like to see the PG/VG base changed; that being, what the nicotine is being suspended in. I don't believe this reaction some people are having is from the nicotine. I didn't get that with cigarettes. But I definitely got the same reaction you see in this video from an electronic cigarette sold in stores, made in China, is disposable and goes by the brand name LOGIC. And this was the first device I was using plenty of before I tried anything else. So yes, I have concerns, especially for stuff that's being made halfway around the world.

Deduce what you will. But I certainly won't be seeking advice from any doctor who doesn't smoke (or never did smoke), nor ever tried this device, because I think it's unchartered water for them and out of their field of expertise. Truth be told, you all probably know more than they do.

At this point, I don't think the reactions are life-threatening, at least I hope we never see even one situation where it is. I hope that people are smart enough to stop when they do see a reaction of any sort and moderate themselves even when they don't. But I don't like to see reactions, period. That means there's room for improvement.

So I would encourage doctors who are/were brave enough to test it out on themselves to sit down with the people who did get a reaction and suggest another alternative suspension liquid for this otherwise remarkable breakthrough. And I hope the FDA follows suit instead of trying to ban and fine people for every lifestyle quirk they don't agree with in the pursuit of finding new ways to tax people. Let's face it - smokers were only their first target and they did a great job in turning the general public into not just disliking cigarettes, but the hating the smoker - the actual person - and that was so wrong, flagrantly discriminatory and childishly immature.

What I see is an us vs. them mentality where even I'm in fear of questioning anything about the e-cig because the FDA and smoke-haters are lurking somewhere in the corner with their biases and pitchforks. Let's face it - smoking is a modern-day witch hunt. It's gotten to the point where even talk show hosts, who are secretly a 2-pack a day smoker themselves, like Rachael Ray, (I diid some research - she is/was) are putting themselves in front of a camera, holding up an e-cig and wearing the most disgusted face imaginable and hypocritically balking, "Ewww.. I don't even want to touch it!". (see: YouTube - Rachel Ray Talks about Banning Ecigs ) Or the so-called doctor on her show who accused the e-cig community of being one of two big-money "lobbyists" paying off politicians. Nothing could be further from the truth as I'm sure anyone and everyone here can attest to. So I can surely understand why some people might be on edge here - just look how these shows are talking about us?

I'm sure you're all very good people who are doing what the doctors, the politicians and the PC police neglected to do and that is; don't tell a smoker to quit, show them how to quit and effectively. And I applaud you for it! But I'm also concerned about these reactions and believe talking about it could lead to even safer alternatives.

I think we need to demand they adhere to a standard that serves every smoker who wants to quit and not the standard of the anti-smoking monster they created. And I think we need to stop fearing them, too. They only have as much power as the people give them anyway. If they don't use it right, they shouldn't have it. The money they use for their studies, after all, is yours. You are all the ones who paid the sin tax and I'd love to know what you got for your money that went into their pockets. Maybe it's time we started asking and demanded they give it back with safer alternatives to those having reactions to PG/VG.

Just my two cents...

 

[Toby]

At the 2:25 min mark, I could swear this doctor is having a hot flash. She has no idea what's happening. The other 3 doctors and the audience are clueless as well. Her physical reaction goes right over their heads as they continue laughing and joking around.

I have no idea why supposedly professional doctors would go using e-cigs live if they don't have a nicotine habit. This could easily cause some kind of hot flush as their nicotine tolerance is zero.

The effect of nicotine from an e-cig (or patch/gum for that matter) is different from normal smoking.

I noticed this as soon as I started (over 2 years ago), and have wondered about it since.
I have come to the conclusion that it is probably due to the lack of carbon monoxide inhaled via e-smoking, compared to the "hit" that the carbon monoxide produces in combination with the nicotine via smoking tobacco.

 

[bigtimeweb]

^^ was going to say the same thing, Toby. If they are not smokers already, then the effects of the nicotine - she just took several drags quickly - would be noticeable. This was also several years ago and there have been considerable leaps and bounds made with the technology, and scientific study since then.

REAL scientific study is about RELIABILITY. You HAVE to have reliability built into your examination of something otherwise there are too many extraneous variables that could be affecting your visible and statistical results.

That being said, everyone is a unique individual. There are obviously some that have adverse effects to pg or vg or flavorings or even antibiotics, but EVERYTHING has an acceptable ratio of good to bad results. Just look at FDA approved medications for that and listen to the end of a commercial for one....may cause suicidal thoughts, ........, dry mouth, hot flashes, bleeding in the stomach, blah blah. I laugh at the end of every single one of those commercails and tell my TV yeah that sounds like something I want to try.

For me it still boils down to reducing my harm from the toxins of tobacco, and Id like to reiterate that if you are using a tank system you are inhaling 3-4 ingredients that are already part of the 599 ingredients in a tobacco cigarette. This is the ONLY thing that has worked for me because my addiction after 25 yrs of smoking is about the hand to mouth habit, the smoke replication, and of course the nicotine...but even that I have been able to successfully downstep in HALF of my original intake in less than two months.

I do embrace the critics, because it is critics that will demand more real and reliable scientific study out of the industry, but for me, now, I am comfortable with the loss of the stink and toxins of tobacco.

I also DO fear the big pharma, tobacco, and other big money companies that stand to take a hit, because their ability to suppress change that is good for the people is historically true. Just look at hemp oil.

 

[JIMKALFAKIS]

The symptoms that the thread starter describes sounds like he might be obese or severely overweight. I rarely if any hear of these problems from ecig users.

 

[Afterburner]

Read this entire thread a month or two ago.

Have decided to quit vaping myself completely as well.

As mentioned in another thread, I am the functional equivalent of a non-smoker, having been off cigarettes for 12 years (only smoked for seven). Tried vaping out of curiosity and also to encourage my siblings if possible to switch over to what seemed to be a healthier alternative. (My brother did begin vaping but is also still smoking).

Right from the start I had a sore throat, but I more or less expected this and paid no attention. Since then though I have experienced cumulative effects including a swollen (as well as painful) throat, lots of phelgm, congested lungs resulting in "unsatisfying" breathing, quite alarming pains and tightness in my chest; these latter symptoms convinced me that quitting vaping was the safest option.

Anyone who writes off symptoms such as these as merely the side effects or concomitants of smoking or quitting smoking is engaging in wildly wishful thinking. As mentioned, I was a non-smoker. Granted, I liked vaping and vaped fairly heavily for a period of about five to six months, but then I did not expect any real harmful effects to result.

While reflecting on this experience, I remembered reading in 'Prozac Backlash' that there is a well recognised ten year cycle in many new psychopharmological medical products. The first ten years consist of the 'miracle phase', when the new product is hailed as a "miracle" cure- as evidenced in everything from coke in the 19th century through to barbiturates or benzodiapenes in the 20th. This is followed by a 10 year reassessment period, when negative reports start to fly in from everywhere. The final ten years is the 'disaster' phase when reality is accepted and the substance is severely controlled.

Maybe ecigarettes will stand the test of time and eventually prove safe but reading some of the posts here along with the minimising of negative experiences makes me think that we might be in the 'miracle' phase right now.

The feedback from my own body though indicates to me that ecigarettes may be far from safe.

 

[meems]

I need to update my status on how it was/is effecting me, I was doing a direct inhale..(from habit of using nicotrol inhalers), when I switched to inhaling like you would a reg cig..my issues stopped.

 

[PlanetScribbles]

The feedback from my own body though indicates to me that ecigarettes may be far from safe.

The feedback from my body tells me that your symptoms are specific to you and the OP, not the majority vapers.
There is nothing unsafe about peanuts, but try telling that to a person with a peanut allergy.

 

[Afterburner]

The feedback from my body tells me that your symptoms are specific to you and the OP, not the majority vapers.
There is nothing unsafe about peanuts, but try telling that to a person with a peanut allergy.

If you read through this thread and others related to the topic, you will see that many people experience such symptoms, and others.

The lungs are quite obviously not designed for the regular ingestion of foreign agents and consequently react "allergically" as you say. Whether or not they adapt over time, or whether long-term damage is inflicted, nobody knows yet.

How do you know anyway that the majority of vapers do not have such symptoms? Most of them attribute the symptoms they do experience to smoking or smoking's after effects, which is precisely why I posted, and why someone else, a person who never smoked at all, posted his own experience in the "shortness of breath" thread.

There are those here who do value such information.

 

[Valsacar]

Right from the start I had a sore throat, but I more or less expected this and paid no attention. Since then though I have experienced cumulative effects including a swollen (as well as painful) throat, lots of phelgm, congested lungs resulting in "unsatisfying" breathing, quite alarming pains and tightness in my chest; these latter symptoms convinced me that quitting vaping was the safest option.

Anyone who writes off symptoms such as these as merely the side effects or concomitants of smoking or quitting smoking is engaging in wildly wishful thinking. As mentioned, I was a non-smoker. Granted, I liked vaping and vaped fairly heavily for a period of about five to six months, but then I did not expect any real harmful effects to result.
The feedback from my own body though indicates to me that ecigarettes may be far from safe.

If you read through this thread and others related to the topic, you will see that many people experience such symptoms, and others.

The lungs are quite obviously not designed for the regular ingestion of foreign agents and consequently react "allergically" as you say. Whether or not they adapt over time, or whether long-term damage is inflicted, nobody knows yet.

How do you know anyway that the majority of vapers do not have such symptoms? Most of them attribute the symptoms they do experience to smoking or smoking's after effects, which is precisely why I posted, and why someone else, a person who never smoked at all, posted his own experience in the "shortness of breath" thread.

There are those here who do value such information.

My pulmonologist told me e-cigs should be basically safe (far safer than smoking), unless you have an allergy to PG. When she listed the signs of just such an allergy... it was almost the same as the list you just gave of your problems.

If our lungs were not built for the regular ingestion of foreign agents they would not be built with "filtering methods" and we would all be dead by now. In case you didn't realize, the air is FILLED with foreign agents, far more than it is filled with the oxygen we need to live (in fact pure, concentrated, oxygen would actually kill you). Some things are worse than others, as the lungs cannot filter them fast enough, such as the tar contained in cigarette smoke. This is why it builds up in the lungs and causes many of a smokers problems, but over time (decades for some people) it will clear out and your risks of lung disease drop drastically.

 

[Afterburner]

My pulmonologist told me e-cigs should be basically safe (far safer than smoking), unless you have an allergy to PG. When she listed the signs of just such an allergy... it was almost the same as the list you just gave of your problems.

If our lungs were not built for the regular ingestion of foreign agents they would not be built with "filtering methods" and we would all be dead by now. In case you didn't realize, the air is FILLED with foreign agents, far more than it is filled with the oxygen we need to live (in fact pure, concentrated, oxygen would actually kill you). Some things are worse than others, as the lungs cannot filter them fast enough, such as the tar contained in cigarette smoke. This is why it builds up in the lungs and causes many of a smokers problems, but over time (decades for some people) it will clear out and your risks of lung disease drop drastically.

True enough, lungs are certainly designed to filter air, though even air that is sufficiently polluted will cause problems.

Having said that, I was using PG. To be honest, I didn't pay too much attention to the differences between the two up till now.

 

[bigtimeweb]

True enough, lungs are certainly designed to filter air, though even air that is sufficiently polluted will cause problems.

PG, by the way, was first registered by the FDA in the 50s for use in hospitals as an air disinfectant

 

[rambo]

I wouldn't say blissfully ignorant, but more like wishful thinking and overly optimistic. And the people selling the devices do not want to admit anything would be wrong with them for obvious reasons. The point of my post was that you never would speak of to anyone who claims E-cigs are great or 100 percent safe right? If someone came here with a super positive testimonial claiming e-cigs saved their life and they are safe and great etc etc. You would cheer them on. even though that would not be a fact. It would be an experience and an opinion based on X amount of usage for X amount of time. That is all good for you, but if someone comes on here and expresses a negative complaint or experience, than you chime in in defense of the ecigarette, stating that their claims shouldn't be considered 100 percent valid. Well guess what, no claims should be considered valid than pro or con. So if you feel better and say its because of the ecig thats ok, but those who feel worse are not allowed or need to find another cause? Just because you feel better from not using one substance does not mean the new thing you are starting is 100 percent safe or doing another type of damage. People who might replace cigarettes with eating cheese might still feel great but their cholesterol levels might be skyrocketing without them knowing it.

The point being. It seems that no matter if anyone says anything negative from their personal experience you will find a billion other reasons why its not the ecigarette. So no one is ever gonna have side effects from vaping according to you because the cause is not proven 100 percent. But for me, Someone who has quit smoking more than once and knows the symptoms of nicotine withdrawal has used the ecig and started getting very strange symptoms from it, well it looks like it probably was the e-cig. Just be unbiased. Thats what we need here. Ecigs could be 99.9 percent safer, 50 percent safer, or they could be just as bad, we just do not know yet. I believe they should be much safer, unless a chemical in an ecig really has a bad reaction with the body or a specific organ in the body. remember cigarettes are very long-term killers, not everything kills you as slowly as a cigarette believe it or not. People don't realize this fact.

The best post in the thread.

We have to wait for years to see the long termn effects of e-cigs. 20+ years from now and we are a bit wiser. Until then, we all remain as laboratory rats.

 

[PlanetScribbles]

If you read through this thread and others related to the topic, you will see that many people experience such symptoms, and others.

The lungs are quite obviously not designed for the regular ingestion of foreign agents and consequently react "allergically" as you say. Whether or not they adapt over time, or whether long-term damage is inflicted, nobody knows yet.

How do you know anyway that the majority of vapers do not have such symptoms? Most of them attribute the symptoms they do experience to smoking or smoking's after effects, which is precisely why I posted, and why someone else, a person who never smoked at all, posted his own experience in the "shortness of breath" thread.

There are those here who do value such information.

The 'majority' as pertaining to what I posted could be 50% +1, although I have no doubt that the numbers who don't have an allergy to PG or VG are higher than that. So i'm not saying that you and the OP are the only ones for whom vaping is 'not for them', I apologise if it sounded that way.
But I have absolutely no doubt that there are many more who see vaping as pleasurable than those who have an adverse reaction.
To say that "ecigarettes may be far from safe" may apply to a minority, but for many they are far safer than smoking. Of that I have zero doubt. Cigarettes are definitely far from safe. Chantix is far from safe. For me, it's about levels of risk rather than absolute risk. In other words, i'm happy to decrease the risk. I don't expect to eliminate it all together.

 

[rambo]

I'm not even sure if I would suggest e-cigs for weekend smokers. Analogs aren't going to kill them if the use is that low (1-2 packs a month). Known side effects of analogs are safer option for them than unknown side effects of e-cigs.