My understanding (of it and other thinking on it) was that nicotine in and of itself is not exactly the issue but the way it is delivered and what else it is combined with that has dependency implications.
Vaping nicotine as a never-smoker, why not?
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My understanding (of it and other thinking on it) was that nicotine in and of itself is not exactly the issue but the way it is delivered and what else it is combined with that has dependency implications.
Seems a little convenient if the studies showing nicotine to be a wonder cure all are sponsored by makers of the patch and nic gum...
I'm yet to see these peer reviewed studies, however...
I'm yet to see these peer reviewed studies, however...
People who were never smokers get just as addicted to chew. What do chew and cigarettes have in common?
I'll also just add that I think teens are hip to the idea that if you vape, you can still smoke and likely not get as addicted as mom and dad did, because you have more options than they did. I do think it is very likely some teens won't even encounter addiction to smoking because of existence of vaping, whereas we who experienced addiction to smoking have a different perspective. We think if you smoke at all, you'll likely at some point become addicted to smoking and that it might take years of useless agony before you break that type of addiction. I think teens and never smokers will very unlikely experience that addiction, and because vaping has so many options for controlling nic level, plus so many options for flavoring, it is possible that the older dogs won't realize the many tricks the younger pups are able to utilize. I do know that most of us wish we had the vaping option growing up, and do instinctively recognize things would've been vastly different if we had both options from the get go. I highly doubt there would be millions of adults who are self convinced that there is no way out of the smoking trap.
I think kids are always going to experiment with various crazes, especially if adults continue to take things ultra seriously and tell half truths about what using entails. All while having their many parties that seek to imbibe in the, ahem, mature way.
I used to believe that, because it was said here a lot and nobody contradicted it. A while ago someone argued quite convincingly that it might not be true. Partly that was based on the fact that, although it was said regularly, nobody appeared to know where it came from originally. The other part was that vaping had changed. Not so long ago vaping tended to be low powered, with low airflow. You couldn't suck much air through a low powered cartridge so not a lot actually went down into the lungs. With modern high powered devices and huge airflow you can fill your lungs with no trouble. So maybe in the past most of the nic was absorbed in the mouth and throat because that's as far as it got.
I don't know the truth of this. Just saying it might not be the case.
That is true but my point is that a never smoking person who vapes is highly unlikely to start smoking. Vaping is not a gateway to smoking.
If someone who vapes was going to smoke IMO they would have just gone straight to smoking
I was merely taking issue with their "test" for dependency. They go on to state different rates of continuation based on different methods, but the rates of continuation could have been due to different methods delivering different basic benefits to the users. Without testing the effect of discontinuing use I don't see any way they can determine dependence.
Let's say someone does a test related to orange juice. One control group eats oranges every morning. The other drinks a glass or two.
At the end of the test, they come back 3 weeks later to see who continues to ingest orange juice in the same way they were previously tested.
They find that orange juice drinkers were twice as likely to still be drinking orange juice, verses those eating fresh oranges.
They determine orange juice is more likely to create a dependence.
Do you agree with that methodology or logic?
It's a lot easier for teens not to get caught vaping than smoking. The recent poll posted on here showed there are twice as many dual users as there are dedicated vapers...
Here's what I'm wondering: was this a "test" of never-smokers? Or was this a test of the ability of NRT to help smokers break their dependence?
Because 3 wks is just about long enough to reach the first really hard test of one's determination; it's certainly not long enough to break a decades-long dependence.
I only drank for about 13 yrs. So it would seem to be a far easier dependence to break than my 39-yr addiction to cigarettes, wouldn't it? But I don't think I was really free of my alcohol dependence for at least 10 yrs after quitting, maybe longer. And even after near-23 yrs of sobriety, there are still triggers that cause the craving -- sundown is a big one, it happens every day.
I don't get the trigger every day, but sometimes, if I happen to be outdoors or riding in a vehicle just at sundown, just something about the air and the sky sends the msg to my brain: time for happy hour! 
I smoked for 39 yrs. If I can manage to get free of that addiction enough to consider quitting vaping inside ten years, I'll be amazed. I told the doc maybe 5 yrs, but I'd call that wildly optimistic.
Andria
Here's what I'm wondering: was this a "test" of never-smokers? Or was this a test of the ability of NRT to help smokers break their dependence?
Because 3 wks is just about long enough to reach the first really hard test of one's determination; it's certainly not long enough to break a decades-long dependence.
I only drank for about 13 yrs. So it would seem to be a far easier dependence to break than my 39-yr addiction to cigarettes, wouldn't it? But I don't think I was really free of my alcohol dependence for at least 10 yrs after quitting, maybe longer. And even after near-23 yrs of sobriety, there are still triggers that cause the craving -- sundown is a big one, it happens every day.
I smoked for 39 yrs. If I can manage to get free of that addiction enough to consider quitting vaping inside ten years, I'll be amazed. I told the doc maybe 5 yrs, but I'd call that wildly optimistic.
Andria
The dreaded 3's. 3 weeks, months and so on.
T
Exactly. I've heard that 3 days is a bad one too, but at 3 days smoke-free I was so euphoric about going 3 days without smoking and NOT MISSING IT AT ALL, I didn't notice. It was at 3 wks that my euphoria was suddenly assaulted by depression. And again at 3 months.
Andria
My error I think. That looks like it was a smoking cessation aftermath test. In the spirit of the great Emily Litella... Never Mind!Here's what I'm wondering: was this a "test" of never-smokers? Or was this a test of the ability of NRT to help smokers break their dependence?
Because 3 wks is just about long enough to reach the first really hard test of one's determination; it's certainly not long enough to break a decades-long dependence.
I only drank for about 13 yrs. So it would seem to be a far easier dependence to break than my 39-yr addiction to cigarettes, wouldn't it? But I don't think I was really free of my alcohol dependence for at least 10 yrs after quitting, maybe longer. And even after near-23 yrs of sobriety, there are still triggers that cause the craving -- sundown is a big one, it happens every day.
I smoked for 39 yrs. If I can manage to get free of that addiction enough to consider quitting vaping inside ten years, I'll be amazed. I told the doc maybe 5 yrs, but I'd call that wildly optimistic.
Andria
My final day 4 and 5... I experienced such Hell I vowed never, ever to put myself through that again. Interestingly, 7 weeks before, I quit totally within days of starting to vape, and I have no recollection of a terrible day 4-5. But I ended up relapsing after only a week when I returned home to my smoking wife and the temptation was too great.
Well in that case, their "test" is utterly worthless; maybe they should have tested to see who was still using it at 3 YEARS.
Andria
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