Vaping nicotine as a never-smoker, why not?

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mosspa

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The fact is the federal government, its agencies and many politicians believe vaping leads to smoking. You don't believe that? They are the ones who will decide the fate of vaping...

Just like they have decided the fate of recreational drug use. Yea, right!
 

AndriaD

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Hi Andria,

Yes, and that is because alcohol leads to a real physical dependency, and any nicotine dependence is psychological. That doesn't mean that physiological brain mechanisms are not involved, it is just that the nicotine really doesn't have much to do with the dependence, since what smokers are dependent on is the whole behavioral chain.

I don't think my nicotine dependence is entirely psychological, since I'm still using WTA, and experienced UNGODLY cravings until I added the WTA -- even though I really didn't want to smoke at all. Once I added the WTA, the cravings vanished completely. Of course, that was while still recuperating from the appendectomy, and I have IBS, making that recuperation much longer and more uncomfortable than for someone without IBS; the "nicotine cocktail" was apparently required by my ailing colon, but unfortunately the only mechanism the body has for giving the signal for what it needs... is cravings. Which are very, very different from "thoughts." (ETA: "thoughts" are like being pestered by a mosquito -- true cravings are more like being strafed by a B-52.)

Andria
 

Mr.Mann

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The mere fact that the article discusses 'nicotine dependence' exposes it as a fraud. If you want to know the 'truth' look at the real peer-reviewed literature on nicotine. There is nothing there that even remotely suggests that it directly leads to dependence.

That was my fault for not vetting it. No sooner than I posted it, I realized I should not have--largely due to that opening opinion, but I was looking more to some of the studies at the bottom of the page (but even those I have not vetted). I'll take the lump for posting in haste.
 

mosspa

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You asked


I replied

potential being the key word you conveniently always leave out and that nicotine has also been shown to have negative neurological effects *the other side of the coin you always conveniently leave out* in fetuses (and also long term effects on those children just as an FYI) ~logically nicotine consumed by pregnant mothers

You attacked with illogical nonsense in the face of an answer that did not go along with your fist banging generalization about nicotine



Making an argument while leaving out half the details doesn't make your argument correct by omissions 'just saying

Outside of the toxic effects of nicotine overdose, and the pressor effects on blood pressure (which occur only in people with cardiovascular compromise), what are these negative neurological effects. If there wasn't the history of smoking, and if nicotine was discovered today, it would be called a safe and effective wonder drug.
 

mosspa

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Sorry to interrupt the argument guys, but does anyone know anything about the effects of nicotine on blood pressure ?

Never had issues with high blood pressure when i was smoking, but the last checkup i had borderline high blood pressure. Bought a blood pressure monitor and have been checking at home. When i don't vape my blood pressure seems to drop to normal levels, but when i vape again my blood pressure seems to go up. I'm a little confused since i am sure i inhaled more nicotine when i smoked. It might be that i am getting older, but i see a direct relation to vaping as well. Is there anything else besides nicotine that might have an effect on blood pressure ?

Yes, nicotine exerts a pressor (constriction) effect on blood vessels. Generally, this is a transient response that lasts for only a couple hours after the vaping. If you have moderate to severe hypertension, then it could be a problem, but not one to worry about if you don't. Also, if you are really worried about it, get a physician to put you on 5mg/day ....... It counteracts the pressor effect and has the other benefits :)
 

mosspa

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Nicotine raises blood pressure. I thought everyone knew that...

The nicotine in cigarette smoke is a big part of the problem. It raises your blood pressure and heart rate, narrows your arteries and hardens their walls, and makes your blood more likely to clot. It stresses your heart and sets you up for a heart attack or stroke.


High Blood Pressure and Smoking: How to Quit

The activists will say the nic in e-cigs is special, or that it is the tobacco, but it really is one side effect of nicotine...

The nicotine in cigarettes and other tobacco products makes your blood vessels get narrow and your heart beat faster, which makes your blood pressure get higher. If you quit smoking and using tobacco products, you can lower your blood pressure and your risk for heart disease and heart attack.

Request Rejected

Nicotine has never been linked to atherosclerosis. Transient increased blood pressure, and mild cardio-acceleration, yes. In otherwise healthy individuals this should be of no concern.
 

mosspa

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No one here has any incontrovertible proof that nic is not addictive in any form regardless how it is introduced into the body. You can blow all the hot air you want.

No 'proof' is incontrovertible. That's the whole promise of science. If somebody demonstrates nicotine dependence in a double blind well controlled experiment then the hypothesis that nicotine does not lead to dependence can be ignored. Since there is no such study, we go with the evidence thus accumulated, and that evidence clearly demonstrates no nicotine dependence.
 

mosspa

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Speaking of which, if I end up enjoying nicotine, I should start stocking up on it very soon, as the upcoming 2016 EU directive will effectively ban e-cigs as they are now EU-wide.

Can a 72mg/ml nicotine VG solution be freezed as is? Won't it expand and break the bottle? How long is it viable/safe to store it for?

Well, It won't freeze at typical freezer temps. It will get very viscous. I would guess a 10+ year life expectancy under those conditions (and the reality is that, 50 years is probably more likely). I have prescription meds that have been stored dessicated at room temperature for over 15 years, and they still have normal clinical potency.
 

mosspa

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Sure, but they could easily impose taxation without burying everything in red tape and stringent regulations which will effectively destroy e-cigs as they are now.

As of May 2016 in the EU/EEA:
  • E-cigs and refill containers must have a mechanism to ensure leak free refilling (not possible with current tech, banning all currently existing products)
  • Replaceable heads are likely to be banned. Under the new rules changing the head on your atomizer might be considered ‘tampering’.
  • Refill containers over 10ml – Banned
  • Maximum size of cartridges or tanks 2ml
  • Electronic cigarettes must provide a consistent dose of nicotine, so variable-voltage and variable-watt products will probably be banned
  • Maximum nicotine strength of e-liquid is 20mg
  • If a “competent authority” believes any product may present a health risk in any 3 EU countries (there are 28) they may be prohibited in all.
Bloody nanny state...

You people chose socialism... Unfortunately you will have to live with it or become a dissident.
 

mosspa

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Interesting...
As per your second link

Although nicotine is an addictive substance, e-cigarette vapor appears to be less addictive than cigarette smoke.


Less addictive doesn't mean not addictive, as the activists profess. Add in the act of vaping, and I stand by my premise that e-cigs are addictive to many vapers...

Why call us activists. Why not go with the ultimate of progressive labels.. deniers!
 

mosspa

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That nicotine is addictive? Yes, it is...

No, just saying it is doesn't make it so. You may believe that it is, but some people believe that putting tin foil on their heads will stop aliens from screwing with their brains. If you're a foilhead, please ignore the comment.
 

mosspa

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You don't think people can become addicted to chewing tobacco? Wow...

Again, depending on the way you define addiction, I guess it is possible. However, the word addiction does not really have meaning today. When people can get addicted to the internet, sex, food, gambling, exercise, and just about any other behavior, saying somebody is addicted to something generally means that they have an above average association with the activity. After alll the circular arguing, it comes back to I'I know that I'm an (insert vice here) addict because I'm addicted to it!
 

mosspa

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Is that the one where a professor was getting his students addicted to nicotine?

I am the professor and I presented the scientific evidence for academic improvement using nicotine. My students are free to make up their own minds. Since over 40% of them are already on prescription psychostimulants for the same purpose, it seemed like presenting them a safer alternative was a good thing to do.
 

mosspa

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I don't think my nicotine dependence is entirely psychological, since I'm still using WTA, and experienced UNGODLY cravings until I added the WTA -- even though I really didn't want to smoke at all. Once I added the WTA, the cravings vanished completely. Of course, that was while still recuperating from the appendectomy, and I have IBS, making that recuperation much longer and more uncomfortable than for someone without IBS; the "nicotine cocktail" was apparently required by my ailing colon, but unfortunately the only mechanism the body has for giving the signal for what it needs... is cravings. Which are very, very different from "thoughts." (ETA: "thoughts" are like being pestered by a mosquito -- true cravings are more like being strafed by a B-52.)

Andria

No, cravings are thoughts. They might be thoughts with more emotional and motivational content than other thoughts, however, they are thoughts.
 
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AndriaD

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No, cravings are thoughts. They might be thoughts with more emotional and motivational content than other thoughts, however, they are thoughts.

You are wrong, and until you have experienced that type of craving yourself, you should not opine about it.

Andria
 
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