I think this might be it : http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v7/n7/pdf/nm0701_833.pdf
Though if you want the full thing, it's beyond a paywall. Keep also in mind that the study was based on experiments in mice.
Vaping nicotine as a never-smoker, why not?
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Though if you want the full thing, it's beyond a paywall. Keep also in mind that the study was based on experiments in mice.
Considering that even California doesn't list nicotine as a carcinogenic I would like to see it as well.
California lists everything.
Maybe this has been said already or maybe its just me but when I first started smokeing I never got a "quick boost" I got a light headed buzz and was pretty mello as opposed the alertness and peppy feeling I get from caffine. Not sure if nicotine is the route for a pick me up if you've never been a smoker.
Don't get too excited with that quote... here is some more of what he said...
"vapers reported being less irritable when they did not have access to an e-cigarette compared to their feelings of frustration when they could not smoke."
From the above it appears he was talking about dual users, not never smokers. And for about the 50th time in this thread, we are talking here only about never smokers, we are not talking about smokers, former smokers, ex smokers or dual users.
(edited for clarity)
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One: Nicotine promotes tumor growth and metastasis in mouse models of lung cancer. - PubMed - NCBI
Two: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Not the exact articles I recall, but they state the same.
The stimulant action is to the brain itself, coordinating the neurotransmitters, which can result in a relaxed feeling. Similar to the effect of giving hyperactive children ritalin; the stimulant makes their brains work better, so they're more relaxed and less twitchy and excitable.
Andria
Honestly, i don't even know what we are disagreeing about
You quoted my post to say your experience has been opposite mine but you seem to have no basis to make the comparison, unless you have measured your B.P. on alternate days when you vape and when you don't, over a prolonged period, and your data suggests that your blood pressure is higher in the days you don't vape.Again, i am not comparing the effects of smoking and vaping on blood pressure ! Any way, doesn't really matter
I really don't think nicotine by itself is "addictive," I think it somewhat "dependence producing," the same way that caffeine is, or it would not be sold OTC; I won't get into sugar because that's a whole 'nuther can of worms. When nicotine is consumed in combination with the other tobacco alkaloids (including MAOIs), it becomes rather more truly addictive, but I think the level of dependence/addiction will vary according to individual metabolism, susceptibility to the "addiction disease" in any form, and the delivery method. Cigarettes are really the perfect storm of all the necessary ingredients for strong dependence, even true addiction, since many people continue to smoke until it leads to their rather early deaths, even though they know the risks, they just can't quit. Some 20% if I remember correctly.
Just to judge from the accounts around here of those who find themselves decreasing their nicotine levels because they become more sensitive to the more uncomfortable effects of nicotine -- their tolerance is actually decreasing. That doesn't happen with caffeine.
Andria
Exactly. Another great post, @AndriaD
In my mind, the notion that nicotine by itself is addictive, and therefore aligned with and lumped together with any other addictive substance, is a gross exaggeration. Addiction is more than a physical dependence or habit like with vaping or drinking coffee: addiction is all consuming and something that very little takes precedence over. Addiction will infiltrate your happiness and destroy your quality of life! Is that nicotine in eliquid? I doubt that. I've seen up close and personal what addiction can do to people and it pains me to even have to act like this warrants a comparison or has an inherent connection. But as long as some need to beat the drum of "it's addictive", the comparisons are there, no matter how off-base.
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I guess I can see that. The way I was reading it is they were looking for the same jolt of energy that you get from caffeine but from nicotine and in my experience Ive never felt that which Is why I posted. But maybe I misunderstood what they ment by a "quick boost.
I found an interesting paper from europe where they did see some by product of pg breakdown that weren't good, interestingly they tested PEG and they suggested it might be a better alternative.
Carbonyl Compounds in Electronic Cigarette Vapors—Effects of Nicotine Solvent and Battery Output Voltage
Just think of what could be done if we started focusing on getting safer, not one mob telling another tribe what they can or cannot do.
Anyway, Andria described exactly my feeling on flavours... having a tasty flavour option is great at both making vaping better and making the taste of cigs even less appealing. After a decade I got to the point the cigs rarely tasted good, most of the time I had to have a drink of some variety to mask it (soda/lattee/fruit juice anything)... Though the after dinner taste of a cig could still be wonderful half the time. The variety and enjoyment i get out of vape flavours is more than enough to cancel that out.
The protect the children from the flavours thing makes me so mad, I just try and not think about it now. Are they going to ban cupcake vodka? Nope. Cherry coke? Nope. Grr. Sigh. Repeat three times, turn on doctor who, vape up a storm.
I have read a few stories on here of people who did just that.
I don't think there is anywhere near enough reliable data to say if there is a significant gateway effect from vaping to regular cigs yet. My gut leans towards no, but that's my gut which is influenced by my enjoyment of vaping and gratitude towards it.
I just don't think its good to step to any conclusions yet.
@unixunderground do what you like as an adult. I think many folks on here have experienced the hard way how hard it is to stop regular cigs and wouldn't wish that on anyone. That silly old expression the easiest way to quit is not to start has something too it. The only thing i would say is do not underestimate how quickly regular cigs can get their claws into you. Keep that door closed.
I guess i would also think there are a bunch if other ways to get a buzz or lift that are way more fun, but that is opinion only. And for example, i hate hate hate rollercoasters and the wordl does not agree lol.
I still don't think 11 years is anywhere near long enough to get good data on cause and effect. For me, having been a smoker, the cost benefit analysis is very different than fir someone who never smoked. That could be argued though.
Be safe and happy op.
I agree; even though cigarette addiction bears some of the traditional hallmarks, like continuing to do it until it harms or kills you because quitting is just too awful, it definitely doesn't rank with the all-consuming addictions of hard drugs or alcohol, where one's entire life can go right down the toilet but one keeps doing it anyway. I dunno, it's pretty close, but vaping? Not even in the same country, nevermind neighborhood. Even for ex-smokers, it seems to grow less and less necessary. The behavior is probably harder to change than the substance dependence -- lots of folks at 3mg or less or even zero, because they enjoy vaping, and without it they feel a lack -- that's behavioral.
Andria
I want to make it clear that, despite the accusations that have been hurled at me by some, I have limited my comments to data and observations we can make now. I have never prognosticated what will come. I have never said never, and etc. I have merely pointed to available data as it relates to what we know today.
And amazingly, I've been skewered over and over for doing that, and just a few posts up, called "an activist" for merely pointing out the consensus of scientific data on nicotine dependence among never smokers. Personally I consider those jumping up and down and refusing to accept that scientific consensus "just because" and with no facts to back them up as "the activists" here.
Yeah, I edited out all those examples, not becasue they aren't true but because I didn't want to come off as minimizing or making light of how terrible actual addiction is (something I think is done when crying "nicotine is addictive"). And to your point, I've seen what addiction-like behavior to cigarettes can do too, and it ain't pretty either. And that's what it is to me: an issue with tobacco and cigarettes. For anyone to say it's merely addiction to nicotine is like...well, ECF won't let me make the relevant comparisons I want to.
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Ummm yes they do
Effective April 1, 1990, the Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment (OEHHA) of the California Environmental Protection Agency added nicotine to the list of chemicals known to cause developmental toxicity.
Known Carcinogens and Reproductive Toxicants (California Proposition 65)
NICOTINE AND SALTS
you must have mis-read his post. he didn't say nicotine was carcinogenic.
Estrogen and Soy aren't carcinogenic either, but if you start having chemotherapy due to cancer, you are told to avoid these things. It's because they have a tendency to accelerate / feed cancer tumors. So does sugar. Which is also not carcinogenic.
Of course, if one is battling cancer, one would probably want to give the body 200% chance of being healthy and fighting it, so I would probably not be injesting "any" extra chemicals into my body if I could at all help it.
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