***Vaping policy at work, ideas needed***

[GMayberry]

I work for a very well known healthcare company, and we are forced to go to the "offsite" smoking area. (ie. a gazebo placed near the dumpsters in the back parking lot) We were sent a "policy reminder" email yesterday that stated:

_________________________________________

It is ************ policy to provide a workplace that is free of all tobacco use. All employees, contractors, vendors, and visitors are prohibited from using tobacco, including all smokeless tobacco products, on *********** premises.

Smoking is only prohibited in the designated smoking area which is located beyond the dumpsters in the back and past the bus stop in the front. Please remember smoking is not permitted within 15 feet of any dumpsters and cigarettes should not be placed in or on the dumpsters.

We are committed to helping people to live healthier lives. This tobacco-free policy furthers that commitment to our employees and all others who we interact with on our premises.

_______________________________________________

I spoke directly to our facilities manager this morning in regards to this. (she is who sent the email, and bolded the one line) and learned that what prompted it was someone vaping in the cafe while they were eating, around others. This is just dumb, but it did start a good conversation between she and I. She has never smoked, never really been around anyone who vapes, and she was under the impression that is was basically liquified tobacco we were using. I gave her a good lesson about vaping, the health benefits of it, and so forth.

I would never expect for us to be allowed to vape indoors, but I hope we can go elsewhere besides where the smokers, and the bags of trash go. We have picnic tables on the side of the buidling that would be fine.

She told me that if I were to gather some information, type it up, along with a justified reasoning and personal letter of why I (we) would benefit from that, she will gladly pass it along to corporate to have the policy (hopefully) revised. The statement included in our policy "We are committed to helping people to live healthier lives." should help prove our point.
I have researched and researched and read all the documentation out there about the second hand effect studies available, etc etc. I am now wondering if anyone has taken this task on before and has a sample letter that is somewhat condensed with everything needed that is presentable. If so, please pass it along, or a link to one somewhere, or any help. If I can't find one, I will compile one myself, and maybe the mods can work on getting it placed in the stickies so that others may benefit at their workplace as well.

Thanks in advance for any help!!

 

[p7willm]

I just read a study that said people inhaling second hand vape had higher levels of formaldehyde than those breathing just air. The levels were low, much lower than with cigs, but they were higher than clean air.

I have seen other studies that found health issues but none with second hand vape.

You might try for a middle ground saying you don't want to be with the unhealthy smokers but you also do not want to bother the healthy air breathers and get an area that allows vaping but not smokng.

 

[DC2]

Your best place to start is probably with the comments submitted by CASAA to the FDA...
CASAA: CASAA Submits Comment to FDA on Behalf of Consumers Regarding FDA Proposed Deeming Regulation

 

[GMayberry]

Exactly. That is all I am shooting for, like I mentioned, the side picnic tables or somewhere else. Not asking for in the office by any means.

 

[GMayberry]

Your best place to start is probably with the comments submitted by CASAA to the FDA...
CASAA: CASAA Submits Comment to FDA on Behalf of Consumers Regarding FDA Proposed Deeming Regulation

I have been to that numerous times, and have yet to find the actual comments submitted. Can you possibly link to them as well? I have the main page that you linked saved at work already. Maybe what I am trying to find isn't there, but I have been digging. Where are the actual comments?

 

[danfinger]

Smoking is only prohibited in the designated smoking area which is located beyond the dumpsters in the back and past the bus stop in the front. Please remember smoking is not permitted within 15 feet of any dumpsters and cigarettes should not be placed in or on the dumpsters.

If smoking is "only prohibited in the designated smoking area" then it sounds like that is the only area in which it is prohibited. Vape where you want, if anyone hassles you, whip out the memo and point out the above quoted line.

I think someone doesn't know the difference between "prohibited" and "permitted".

 

[DrMA]

I reviewed a large body of literature for the comments I submitted to FDA re: deeming proposal (you can find these on my ECF blog). Here are some studies directly relating to your question about the safety of eliquids, 2nd hand vapor, and «helping people to live healthier lives»:

Burstyn (2013): http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/files/publichealth/ms08.pdf
ECITA liquid study: http://ecita.org.uk/docs/EU_Classification_of_nicotine_mixtures_acute_oral_and_dermal_toxicity.pdf
Farsalinos and Polosa (2014): Safety evaluation and risk assessment of electronic cigarettes as tobacco cigarette substitutes: a systematic review
Hajek et al. (2014): Electronic cigarettes: review of use, content, safety, effects on smokers and potential for harm and benefit - Hajek - 2014 - Addiction - Wiley Online Library

 

[GMayberry]

That is hilarious!!!! I didn't even catch that!!!

 

[DrMA]

I have been to that numerous times, and have yet to find the actual comments submitted. Can you possibly link to them as well? I have the main page that you linked saved at work already. Maybe what I am trying to find isn't there, but I have been digging. Where are the actual comments?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rrect-fear-mongering-claims-about-e-cigs.html

 

[danfinger]

Here's another link for your arsenal: "Tobacco Products" Wikipedia.org

No mention of 'e-liquid' or 'vaping' or 'vapor' or any reference otherwise. Just tell whoever hassles you "This is not a tobacco product. This product has as much to do with tobacco as nico-patch or nico-gum. Meaning: None at all."

 

[GMayberry]

Vape where you want, if anyone hassles you, whip out the memo and point out the above quoted line.

Here's another link for your arsenal: "Tobacco Products" Wikipedia.org

No mention of 'e-liquid' or 'vaping' or 'vapor' or any reference otherwise. Just tell whoever hassles you "This is not a tobacco product. This product has as much to do with tobacco as nico-patch or nico-gum. Meaning: None at all."

This is not the approach I am wanting to take. I am personal friends with the facilities manager (many years on the same co-ed softball team, get your minds out of the gutters) and she agrees 100% with me. She knows I go on the side periodically, and she is fine with that. She is willing to put this up to "the powers that be" that actually control corporate policies. I want this to come across someone's desk and truly enlighten them, without bombarding them with all kinds of links and documents, and also to catch there attention in a way that they are more willing to work with us instead of thinking we are "starting a revolution."

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

There's a huge positive in that your feedback and concerns were listened to, and the willingness to help information share and pursue policy revisions!

Here's a link to the CASAA FDA comment: http://casaa.org/uploads/CASAA-FDA-Comment-8-7-14.pdf

Click on DrMa's name and one of the pop-up menu items is to view blog entries. He shared his 14 comments to the FDA, each one focusing on a particular aspect of vaping. You could pick the parts that you feel are most applicable to your 'argument, and maybe get a jump-start on some of the verbiage.

Another source might be to 'mine' some of the comments that were posted in the FDA regulations thread. Some very compelling stories, and presentations to be found there.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/fda-regulations/556080-fda-deeming-regulation-proposals.html

And another source to look into is the comment from George Mason University's Michael Marlow, linked in this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ency-s-analysis-proposed-deeming-reg.html#top

Good luck!

 

[Lisa Bentley]

I work on military post as a civilian and was told yesterday at my job that the company had deemed vaping the same as cigarette smoking and that I would have to sit in the smoking area 50 ft from the building. My question was, "so you're telling me that I still need to sit with the people setting tobacoo, fiberglass, tar and who knows what else on fire, and inhale that"?

I actually plan on going to the post command and seeing what THEIR policy is.

 

[DC2]

I have been to that numerous times, and have yet to find the actual comments submitted. Can you possibly link to them as well? I have the main page that you linked saved at work already. Maybe what I am trying to find isn't there, but I have been digging. Where are the actual comments?

At the bottom of the link I provided earlier is the following...

You may download and read CASAA's comment to the FDA here:
http://casaa.org/uploads/CASAA-FDA-Comment-8-7-14.pdf

 

[Katcandoo]

The recent attempt in Delaware to add e-cigs to the states's Clean Indoor Air Act (banning smoking in certain areas, businesses, and outdoor proximity to them) was introduced as legislation by an elected official who witnessed vaping in a local restaurant. There was no discomfort experienced by the legislator, she was offended by the vision of vapor.

Until we overcome the visual correlation of vapor and smoke, I'm not sure we can win public opinion that vaping is acceptable in public. The ATNZ are way ahead of us on the perception that fog emitted from the mouth is deadly to bystanders.

Whoever the PR person is that can shift public opinion that vapor is not dangerous to public health to our side will have climbed what I believe is an insurmountable mountain.

I hope that is possible, but until then, I will educate those who are willing to listen, and stealth vape in the restroom when I can't.

 

[amoret]

I would think that one thing to point out is that as former smokers should not only be able to avoid the smell/mess of the smoking area, but also the temptation of being around their former addiction.

 

[coalyard]

Good luck in your endeavor. However, having worked for a large corporation for many years in a management position, my experience tells me you are probably fighting a losing battle. I don't mean to be a wet blanket or discourage you, but corporations generally take the path of least resistance, and as a smoker or vaper, you are in a distinct minority as far as they are concerned.

 

[Bunnykiller]

If smoking is "only prohibited in the designated smoking area" then it sounds like that is the only area in which it is prohibited. Vape where you want, if anyone hassles you, whip out the memo and point out the above quoted line.

I think someone doesn't know the difference between "prohibited" and "permitted".

priceless.... good catch

 

[DrMA]

Good luck in your endeavor. However, having worked for a large corporation for many years in a management position, my experience tells me you are probably fighting a losing battle. I don't mean to be a wet blanket or discourage you, but corporations generally take the path of least resistance, and as a smoker or vaper, you are in a distinct minority as far as they are concerned.

I'm afraid I have to agree with this. But, in the end, some prohibitions are enforceable, and yet the majority aren't.

 

[DC2]

Good luck in your endeavor. However, having worked for a large corporation for many years in a management position, my experience tells me you are probably fighting a losing battle. I don't mean to be a wet blanket or discourage you, but corporations generally take the path of least resistance, and as a smoker or vaper, you are in a distinct minority as far as they are concerned.

Yeah.

I didn't say anything because I didn't want to discourage him in his efforts, but...

If this were an office policy, there might have a slight chance.
If this is a corporate policy there is nearly zero chance.

And given that this is a HEALTHCARE company, you have a better chance of turning into a newt.

Healthcare companies are doing this all over the country.
And they are doing it to satisfy the ANTZ agenda.