Vaping Policy in the Workplace - Input needed

[Gummy Bear]

Medic123's boss may just be a non-smoker, where as my ex-boss was an avid Anti-smoker. BIG difference!
The anti-smokers will get all up in arms if you so much as upset the delicate eyes by just looking like your smoking.
Perhaps it's that 5th hand smoke danger that says that if you so much as look at smoke your going to instantly DIE.

 

[kristin]

I had a boss tell me,,, not only NO! but,,, HELL NO,,,
He said "I don't give a damn what you call it, If there's smoke coming out of your mouth, YOUR SMOKING"!

His point was that if it quacks like a duck,,,

At that point there was no use trying to explain the difference between smoke and steam to a .....$$ like that.




BTW I no longer work there.

Ummm....that wouldn't be SMOKE coming out of your mouth - it's VAPOR. HUGE difference.

 

[kristin]

Are employees allowed to drink coffee on the job? If so, the company allows recreational use of an addictive and legal drug.

Are employees allowed to wear nicotine patches or chew nicotine gum? If so, employees are already allowed to take in nicotine as part of a smoking cessation plan.

Are employees allowed to chew on their own pens? If so, you already have a company policy allowing non-distruptive oral fixations.

With that in mind, why would vaping be any different?

vaping is NOT smoking. vaping is legal.

Not to mention that a "tobacco-free" policy only discriminates against "visible" tobacco product users such as vapers, smokers and chewers. If someone uses undetectable tobacco snus, lozenges or strips there is no way to enforce the policy.

As a former restaurant manager, I would have endorsed it out of customer view. (Employees had appearance standards and couldn't eat, drink or chew gum on the floor either, so it's a reasonable policy.)

The company I work for is getting a letter to corporate from CASAA because they included e-cigarettes even though the recent indoor ban doesn't prohibit e-cigarettes in the legislation!

 

[Gummy Bear]

Some companies only hire non-smokers. They test for the presents of nic. So how would a vaper that doesn't smoke ever get a job with one of these companies? Right off the bat he would look like he was lying.

 

[kristin]

Some companies only hire non-smokers. They test for the presents of nic. So how would a vaper that doesn't smoke ever get a job with one of these companies? Right off the bat he would look like he was lying.

It's definitely a discrimination against all nicotine users and not just the highest risk group - smokers. Unfortunately, nicotine users aren't a protected class, therefore, discrimination is perfectly legal. It's a similar issue with health and life insurance coverage - just the presence of nicotine/cotinine can get you classified as a high risk, even though you are a low risk user.

All I could suggest is avoid applying to companies who have random drug testing or use no-nicotine liquid for a week or so before getting a single test.

 

[Gummy Bear]

or use no-nicotine liquid for a week or so before getting a single test.

LOL, Ha,Ha,Ha,,, ROFLMAO,,, Yea right,,, and a few other sarcastic remarks I can't think of right now.

 

[kristin]

LOL, Ha,Ha,Ha,,, ROFLMAO,,, Yea right,,, and a few other sarcastic remarks I can't think of right now.

I'm serious.

You may find it easier to do than you think. Many vapers find that the no-nic liquid can hold them off for a short time period and many others find that no-nic satisfies the craving completely, because they are more about the habit than the nicotine. At least e-cigarettes give you that option where other smoking alternatives don't - and you still feel like you're getting that "smoking-like" experience. You may be surprised.

Get your favorite flavor in no-nic and see if it can work as a temporary placebo for you. I'm planning on doing it before I switch life insurance companies in case they require a cotinine test.

 

[andygee]

To the OP: I'm not in HR but i am the senior non-attorney exec in my office. I made sure to tell all the smokers about electronic cigarettes; some have camped on to my e-cig orders. These things are absolutely unheard of in NYC but everyone who sees one loves it, at least the idea of it. My building as a whole has a no-smoking policy (every workplace in NYC has the same policy) and I'm waiting for someone from the building to object, but no one has.

To Kristin: Yup, I find myself "bumming" my wife's no-nics. Spearmint, vanilla, coconut, and coffee are prolly better without nicotine.

 

[Willriker]

Some people need to make smoking into the anti christ to keep themselves away from the habit. Some people dont need to go that far.

I used to hate the antismoking nazi's, but i always understood that not only do people react differantly to something like smoking. But, the same reaction will not work the same for everyone. Some people must make smoking into the destroyer of worlds for them to be able to stear clear.

And i am fine with that.

What ever keeps them from smoking is just as good as what ever keeps me from smoking.

So, it may inconvenience me. Thats ok. Wosre things have happened than simply being inconvenienced.

And, i have never heard of a single company ever testing for nicotine in a prospective employees system. Assuming these companies exist, one would need to wonder what the average work day would be like at those places. And would you even want to work there if that type of prying extends to other facets of your life.

 

[Gummy Bear]

Some people need to make smoking into the anti christ to keep themselves away from the habit.

Some people must make smoking into the destroyer of worlds for them to be able to stear clear.



What ever keeps them from smoking is just as good as what ever keeps me from smoking.


And would you even want to work there if that type of prying extends to other facets of your life.

WR, And some just do it to make themselves dominate over others> The working world is full of them.
You ask if one would even want to work for a company like that. NO,,, but there are sometimes little/no choice in where one works, you still have to keep the wolf away.

 

[jpargana]

Many vapers find that the no-nic liquid can hold them off for a short time period and many others find that no-nic satisfies the craving completely, because they are more about the habit than the nicotine. At least e-cigarettes give you that option where other smoking alternatives don't - and you still feel like you're getting that "smoking-like" experience.

When I smoked, I could easily spend a whole weekend without an analog, especially in the winter (At home, I allways smoked outside, in the balcony, and many times didn't feel like coming out in the cold and the rain...) So, it was not a 'nicotine thing', definitely... when I first ordered the e-cig, I also ordered a mix of zero and low nicotine liquids... the only reason I gradually switched to low / medium? The zero-nic liquid did not give me a satisfying throat hit at all. If it did, I would not have changed. Come to think on that, if I used to spend a weekend without smoking analogs, maybe I was more 'addicted' to the smoke (the throat hit) than the nicotine itself. Once I did one of those tests about nicotine addiction, where you keep adding scores related to your own answers, and the final result was a 'low dependency'... and yet, I could not stop smoking - until, that is, I found the e-cig. And I am not planning to quit the e-cig on a near future, either...

 

[Drozd]

Here is one of the "rules" they try to lay down on me. The USAF policy letter very clearly outlines a "tobacco Product" that "looks like" a regular death stick. Therefor my PV isn't covered under there guild lines.

I used to Vape it everywhere, right before role call, in the break area, in the truck, in the hanger. Some one decided that my post Breakfast Burrito vape in the break room was unacceptable, and I was called into the office, and handed the new policy letter (the one that mentioned above). After I finished reading it I was asked if I had any questions. I responded with a solid "No Sir".

I think sometimes it's better just to try to keep things on the "D-Low" at work just to keep everyone happy.

If I see an Airman Vaping am I going to call him out? I'm not going to answer that

See that's where I'd have gotten in trouble.... I'd have said yes that I had a question.... "why then did the VA attorney general specifically send out a letter that stated that PVs were NOT included in VA new indoor ban?"

but yeah I realize that it's the military and kinda writes their own rules and doesnt have to subscribe to the state laws....

It's definitely a discrimination against all nicotine users and not just the highest risk group - smokers. Unfortunately, nicotine users aren't a protected class, therefore, discrimination is perfectly legal. It's a similar issue with health and life insurance coverage - just the presence of nicotine/cotinine can get you classified as a high risk, even though you are a low risk user.

All I could suggest is avoid applying to companies who have random drug testing or use no-nicotine liquid for a week or so before getting a single test.

some states DO consider smokers a protected class though.... it depends on to what level and how the law is written in that state though...and since the test has to test for nicotine, technically it would cover other forms of nicotine use too...Tenn for example, workers hant be fired for nic use (but they can test as far as pre-employment goes)... one state (cant remember which) the law is something along the lines that if an employer fires for nicotine use they have to pay the person the squivalent of like 3 years wages plus... I think everyone should know what the smokers rights are in their state... and as much as we dislike their viewpoint on PVs right now one of the best places to find out what that law is quickly is through the ALA : Tobacco Laws and Public Smoking Policy -- American Lung Association SLATI (just click on your state)

This is wisconsin's for example (since both you and the OP are from there):
No employer, labor organization, employment agency, licensing agency or other person may engage in any act of employment discrimination against any individual on the basis of use or nonuse of lawful products off the employer’s premises during non-working hours. This section does not apply to nonprofit corporations that, have as one of their primary purposes or objectives the encouragement or discouragement of the general public from using this lawful product. It is acceptable for employers to offer a life, health or disability insurance policy under which the type or price of coverage varies for employees based on their usage of this lawful product when the policy meets certain conditions.

WIS. STAT. §§ 111.31 et seq. (1991).

 

[Stosh]

I work in a medimum sized office setting. Whem I started vaping at work it
caused a bit of a stir, mostly laughter, and amazement.
After explaining it was only vapor and the red light was not actually burning,
everyone was very accepting.

Then when it settled down some, the overwheming reaction was a heardy,
GOOD FOR YOU! you're quitting analogs, followed by two queries about
where to get the setup for their fathers and one for her sister for Christmas.

 

[rsmith76]

I posted a comment in the vaping in public forum about vaping in the work place. I am not a manager but am considered management. I am called a lean tech and operate an assembly line. Our safety associate advised me to use my pv anywhere on the shop floor I wanted, as it was only water vapor. He is very knowlegable on e cigs, and is not a smoker or a vaper. This decision came from his superior who is a manager. I'm sure the HR dept. gave their blessing as well. If your company has a safety director, bring the matter to his/her attention and ask for their blessing. There are not many vapers at work, but it's possible that may change due to the frigid weather here in Ohio. Hope this helps you in your quest. rsmith76

 

[IOU]

Are employees allowed to drink coffee on the job? If so, the company allows recreational use of an addictive and legal drug.

Are employees allowed to wear nicotine patches or chew nicotine gum? If so, employees are already allowed to take in nicotine as part of a smoking cessation plan.

Are employees allowed to chew on their own pens? If so, you already have a company policy allowing non-distruptive oral fixations.

With that in mind, why would vaping be any different?

Vaping is NOT smoking. Vaping is legal.

I love it! Well said.

 

[Jaguar G]

When I first started vaping I went to my HR department, told them all about it (they did know some) and demonstrated my KR8 for them. They told me they would have to run it by the GM and let me know. A few days later I asked and was told the "perception" would be that I was smoking, so I could not vape in the building.

Since then I have moved up to a box mod and vape in my office anyway. I am the supervisor of a department of 11 and all my employees know I do so. Of the two that smoke, I converted one to vaping, Of the rest, none are stupid and can tell the difference between vaping and smoking, and they all think it is outstanding that I quit cigarettes using basically water vapor, flavors, and nicotine. One is an ex-smoker and very intrigued with my Phidias.

I did have our GM walk into my office right after I took a rain cloud producing sized puff, and I just held it for a bit, turned and exhaled down. He didn't say a thing, but I am still waiting on the other shoe to drop for that.

I find it silly to base company policy on "perception". No food is allowed on the production floor but you can chew gum, well, someone may "perceive" gum chewing as eating, so why isn't that banned? Sure, keep the vaping off the floor, but make an indoor area for vaping; soon all the cool kids will be doing it, and all the non-vapors will be hanging out there to be with the cool kids, it isn't nearly as smelly as smoking, and most of the smell is good anyway.

If I were the GM, we would have a vape friendly building.

 

[Gummy Bear]

Welcome to the United States of the offended.
Smoking has gotten such a bad rap that now you can't even look like your smoking.

I said a long time ago that naming PVs with anything to do with cigs was a bad idea. even worse to make them look like a cig.
because "perception" is everything. If a boss doesn't like smoking then he will just see this as a walk around his wishes/orders.
and to try to explain it to him will just make him look stupid. If you push the issue, now your just a trouble maker and will be let go in no time.

 

[kristin]

Perception has nothing to do with it - that's just a lame excuse.

Are they going to ban diabetics from injecting insulin in public for fear that people will think it's ok to shoot up crack at work?

Look at it this way - what if someone DID light up a tobacco cigarette and started smoking in a restaurant or at their desk? Would all of the other smokers in the area automatically assume the laws and rules had suddenly been changed and start lighting up?? I think not. There's no more of a danger of that happening with e-cigarettes and they know it - that excuse is a complete farce.

Welcome to the United States of the offended.
Smoking has gotten such a bad rap that now you can't even look like your smoking.

I said a long time ago that naming PVs with anything to do with cigs was a bad idea. even worse to make them look like a cig.
because "perception" is everything. If a boss doesn't like smoking then he will just see this as a walk around his wishes/orders.
and to try to explain it to him will just make him look stupid. If you push the issue, now your just a trouble maker and will be let go in no time.

 

[oldsoldier]

Perception has nothing to do with it - that's just a lame excuse.

Are they going to ban diabetics from injecting insulin in public for fear that people will think it's ok to shoot up crack at work?

Look at it this way - what if someone DID light up a tobacco cigarette and started smoking in a restaurant or at their desk? Would all of the other smokers in the area automatically assume the laws and rules had suddenly been changed and start lighting up?? I think not. There's no more of a danger of that happening with e-cigarettes and they know it - that excuse is a complete farce.

Unfortunately perception is 9/10's of the law in business. When I worked as a government contractor I was required to have short hair and follow military grooming regulations. When I worked for PBG the standards were looser as a merchandiser, but the move up to CR would have meant "lose the beard and ponytail". You rarely see a Lawyer or Doctors receptionist in a tube tip and short skirt. Hell, even wally world won't let their employees wear holey jeans.

It sucks, but perception will be used against us whether or not it is valid.

 

[oldsoldier]

Another thought... most business owners/HR departments could care less if its "fair" or not, they don't want the hassle of dealing with smokers complaining that people can vape. Like parents, they don't want justice they just want silence.