Vapor Flask V3 DNA40 Clone thread

[Phone Guy]

I have a question regarding temp control from a page or two back...this might not be the right thread but I'm going to ask here anyway.

It seems to me temp control is way more hassle than it's worth? I'm not going to discuss safety here because the fact is the safest way to vape is NOT to vape at all.

It seems like people using temp control, either on a clone chip or genuine evolve, the results are sporadic at best...ambient temp playing it's part (never thought of that) etc etc etc.

Is the resulting vape any more satisfying using nickel or titanium wires and temp control than kanthal and a standard wattage setup?

 

[dwcraig1]

I have a question regarding temp control from a page or two back...this might not be the right thread but I'm going to ask here anyway.

It seems to me temp control is way more hassle than it's worth? I'm not going to discuss safety here because the fact is the safest way to vape is NOT to vape at all.

It seems like people using temp control, either on a clone chip or genuine evolve, the results are sporadic at best...ambient temp playing it's part (never thought of that) etc etc etc.

Is the resulting vape any more satisfying using nickel or titanium wires and temp control than kanthal and a standard wattage setup?

Me I prefer Nichrome or Kanthal but this is the direction that we are headed so I "try to help it move along."
It really is nice in a dripper especially if things start to get dry and you take a big hit of of it. With a tank I see little use for it in my case.
But wait, wasn't it just a week ago that I vaped my Taifun bone dry?

 

[tchavei]

I have a question regarding temp control from a page or two back...this might not be the right thread but I'm going to ask here anyway.

It seems to me temp control is way more hassle than it's worth? I'm not going to discuss safety here because the fact is the safest way to vape is NOT to vape at all.

It seems like people using temp control, either on a clone chip or genuine evolve, the results are sporadic at best...ambient temp playing it's part (never thought of that) etc etc etc.

Is the resulting vape any more satisfying using nickel or titanium wires and temp control than kanthal and a standard wattage setup?

This is my opinion only so I'm sure it's open to debate, contradiction or whatever. It's just my opinion:

1. TP has the novelty and cool factor.

2. The current devices are in the dawn of temperature protection. Things will get better (read as more stable) with time.

3. Ambient temperature plays a roll in all DNA like boards I know of. I can have an atty stable at 0.1 for 4 days as long as ambient temperature doesn't change or I don't carry my mod inside my pants. Once I start forgetting it in the car, have it for more than 30 minutes in my pants or hold it with my warm hands for like 20 minutes, the base resistance gets adjusted which will alter the temperature at which the liquid is vaporized.

4. I'm honestly not sure at what point its protecting us 100% if the base resistance is refined to a wrong value and suddenly, instead of vaping something at 400F, you're vaping at 500 or God knows how high.

5. I used to vape on a kanthal 1.3Ohm coil during 45 days without ever looking at the screen. Ignoring the occasional dry hit at the end of a tank, life was simpler.

my two cents
Tony

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Seems like the issue with ambient temperature mostly goes away if one takes refinement out of the picture!

 

[tchavei]

Seems like the issue with ambient temperature mostly goes away if one takes refinement out of the picture!

I suppose that if you had one of the latest dna revisions (the one that lets you disable refinement) or a sx350j (you set base resistance manually), you should be ok regarding ambient temperature. I say "should" because I have no on hand experience with those. Mine is one of those with F/C and gold plated contacts.

Regards
Tony

 

[AnsonJames]

The "ambient" temperature affecting operation is a true head wrecker on the genuine Evolv - in the height of winter it meant that going outside in the cold practically made my builds unusable - when the chip worked in the first place.

Evolv should have put another 6 months testing into the 40 before releasing it - it's not reliable or consistent enough as it is.

 

[tchavei]

The "ambient" temperature affecting operation is a true head wrecker on the genuine Evolv - in the height of winter it meant that going outside in the cold practically made my builds unusable - when the chip worked in the first place.

Evolv should have put another 6 months testing into the 40 before releasing it - it's not reliable or consistent enough as it is.

I'm going to try a titanium coil next. As I understand it, the higher the resistance you can put it, the less influence a temperature shift has on the reading. Like I said before, 0.01 ohms on a 0.5 ohm coil have much less impact than 0.01 on a 0.11 coil.

So far the temperature shifts I've experienced have been minor although I can feel the difference in the vape. It's not a show stopper but rather a nuisance.

One thing that one needs to remember though... Many times it's not ambient temperature but a bad build or bad connection that makes the resistance shift. If you have an atty that has resistance jumping around without any significant ambient temperature change, its fairly possible that there are other issues present. Knowing when it's ambient temperature and when it is a wonky build is the real problem.

Tony

 

[lenon]

I'm going to try a titanium coil next. As I understand it, the higher the resistance you can put it, the less influence a temperature shift has on the reading. Like I said before, 0.01 ohms on a 0.5 ohm coil have much less impact than 0.01 on a 0.11 coil.

So far the temperature shifts I've experienced have been minor although I can feel the difference in the vape. It's not a show stopper but rather a nuisance.

One thing that one needs to remember though... Many times it's not ambient temperature but a bad build or bad connection that makes the resistance shift. If you have an atty that has resistance jumping around without any significant ambient temperature change, its fairly possible that there are other issues present. Knowing when it's ambient temperature and when it is a wonky build is the real problem.

Tony

Just remember that if you're using titanium you have to halve your temp setting. So, if you want 500 degrees, set it to 250.

 

[lenon]

I have a question regarding temp control from a page or two back...this might not be the right thread but I'm going to ask here anyway.

It seems to me temp control is way more hassle than it's worth? I'm not going to discuss safety here because the fact is the safest way to vape is NOT to vape at all.

It seems like people using temp control, either on a clone chip or genuine evolve, the results are sporadic at best...ambient temp playing it's part (never thought of that) etc etc etc.

Is the resulting vape any more satisfying using nickel or titanium wires and temp control than kanthal and a standard wattage setup?

I don't have any sporadic results at all. My nickel builds work fine 100% of the time, as long as I play within the proper parameters. Meaning that I keep the resistance where it should be, and my build isn't complete crap or experimental.

The only thing I have problems with is building coils with too much mass for 40 watts with parallel batteries to push properly. These coils can take 3-4 seconds to heat up and start producing vapor. Again though, that's really my fault for not playing by the rules.

The results are no more satisfying. In fact, I prefer the flavor of kanthal, or even nichrome. That being said, not having to worry about dry hits at all is worth it. I used to be on the "why have temp control if you're using a tank" bandwagon, but I've since realized that tanks sometimes don't wick properly, or can't wick fast enough to support the amount of power you're putting into them. When that happens, you get a dry hit even with a full tank. Temp control doesn't let that happen.

Also, look back a few pages where Croak and I talk about temp control, vape consistency, and tuning your flavor by tuning your temperature.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Just remember that if you're using titanium you have to halve your temp setting. So, if you want 500 degrees, set it to 250.

that may be too much, no? I thought around 80-120F lower was more like it!

 

[lenon]

that may be too much, no? I thought around 80-120F lower was more like it!

I have no personal experience with it, but Brandon from Evolv, in a video with Busardo, said about half.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

I have no personal experience with it, but Brandon from Evolv, in a video with Busardo, said about half.

Ok! I haven't tried it yet but will this week hopefully. I'll post my experiences etc then!

cheers
steve

 

[WeirdWillie]

I'm going to try a titanium coil next. As I understand it, the higher the resistance you can put it, the less influence a temperature shift has on the reading. Like I said before, 0.01 ohms on a 0.5 ohm coil have much less impact than 0.01 on a 0.11 coil.

So far the temperature shifts I've experienced have been minor although I can feel the difference in the vape. It's not a show stopper but rather a nuisance.

One thing that one needs to remember though... Many times it's not ambient temperature but a bad build or bad connection that makes the resistance shift. If you have an atty that has resistance jumping around without any significant ambient temperature change, its fairly possible that there are other issues present. Knowing when it's ambient temperature and when it is a wonky build is the real problem.

Tony

Agreed.
Many of the resistance change issues can be contributed to crappy builds, AND poor connections, fact is not all attys play well at very low resistances.
Just because it works well with kanthal by no means it's going to work well with Ni200 or even titanium
Remember with the DNA40 we are dealing in centi-ohms and mili-ohms that can be greatly effected by a number of factors, such as ambient temperature of the wire itself will cause a change in resistance much like a thermister therefore making it an ever changing dynamic resistance and underlying and/or inherent continuity issues only serve amplify this effect.
Where as with VV/VW and kanthal with a static resistance it doesn't have such a drastic effect.
and questionable coils and connections in many cases go unnoticed.

In many reguards working with the DNA40 and Ni200 we're almost learning all over again, atty and 510 manufactures for the most part do not manufacture the attys to close enough tolerances today to deal with a majority of the continuity issues, and then there is always going to be human error.

I suppose one needs to learn what a DNA40 type TP device (since there are clones and other TP devices coming out) ARE NOT to fully appreciate what they are.

 

[dwcraig1]

Note the 22 mm washer on the 510 socket is now 18.5 mm.

The board arrives today, the iron that I will use will come in a couple more days. Squonk hole needs to be a bit wider.

Edit: DNA40 board arrived(Monday), still waiting on new iron. Mounted top on body, put on bf atty, installed filled bottle and had our first squonk. Success on the bottle, that's out of the way now.
Oh, had to re-solder red wire to bf tube, it's on there real good now. Used my 100 watt Wen instead of mini torch this time, much better.(silver bearing solder)

Here's the soldering iron I'm waiting for:

Only 6 watts but I'm pretty sure it will do the job nicely, great reviews.

 

[WeirdWillie]

Looks good, shame to have to sacrifice a battery though.
I have really come to enjoy longevity of parrallel 18650's
I frequently pull 16-18 hour days so battery life is a must.

 

[Treeburner1983]

I couldn't resist, ordered a stainless Waidea VF v3 from Focalecig last night. Should ship from their USA Warehouse on April 10, same day my ipv4 will hit VapeNW - we'll see which gets here first, and which handles TC better! Can't wait!

-Treeburner

 

[Croak]

I'd put money on the Yihi chip being better overall, more refined, less glitchy, and it has a more than twice the power capability which will do wonders to speed ramp up times and let folks build much more massive/heavier gauge coils and still get good results. But man is that IPV4 ugly or what?

That said, if I was looking to buy another "inexpensive" parallel 18650 TP mod today instead of late January, I'd put my $80 on the IPV4, funky design and bulkiness of the device notwithstanding.

And I've got a SX Mini M class in my Varitube shopping cart that I may just pull the trigger on.

Actually, I keep hoping Yihi will make an SX350J with a "standard" 96x16 0.69" display option so they can be retrofitted in mods designed for DNA small screen boards. I'd gut both my flasks and use the Yihi board in an instant if that board was ever available.

 

[lenon]

I'd put money on the Yihi chip being better overall, more refined, less glitchy, and it has a more than twice the power capability which will do wonders to speed ramp up times and let folks build much more massive/heavier gauge coils and still get good results. But man is that IPV4 ugly or what?

That said, if I was looking to buy another "inexpensive" parallel 18650 TP mod today instead of late January, I'd put my $80 on the IPV4, funky design and bulkiness of the device notwithstanding.

And I've got a SX Mini M class in my Varitube shopping cart that I may just pull the trigger on.

Actually, I keep hoping Yihi will make an SX350J with a "standard" 96x16 0.69" display option so they can be retrofitted in mods designed for DNA small screen boards. I'd gut both my flasks and use the Yihi board in an instant if that board was ever available.

Wow man, I hadn't seen the actual mod before before just now, only heard of it. That thing is so damn ugly that I think I'll wait for something else using the same chip, or buy a chip and swap out the board in one of my other mods.

I'd only want it for giggles anyway. What's the point of a 100 watts in a temp control device? Maybe you could simulate a more aggressive preheat? I don't know man. 40 watts on all my DNA40 devices is already too much. I can't build a coil that will vape at 40 watts for more than a few seconds without hitting TP.

The only use for it I can see is if you're still using both Kanthal and TP builds. I like my .18 to .20 Kanthal coils, but they do need more than 40 watts, for me, to be worthwhile.

 

[tchavei]

Actually, I keep hoping Yihi will make an SX350J with a "standard" 96x16 0.69" display option so they can be retrofitted in mods designed for DNA small screen boards. I'd gut both my flasks and use the Yihi board in an instant if that board was ever available.

I would do the same.


Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[Croak]

With 100 watts to play with, you could successfully use 26, 25 or even 22 gauge Ni2000, provided you had the deck space to work with. You could start to take advantage of all the coil artistry that's been applied to Kanthal by the cloud and flavor chasers, builds that require a lot of power to overcome the coil mass they're working with.

More power means more options, doesn't mean you have to use the extra power. But somebody will. Imagine a world where the Protank or even Kayfun "it's gotta be a cool vape" and "I only restrictive mouth to lung hit" crowd dictated the market. We'd all still be sporting 10-15w mods, attys with pathetic airflow, and using nasty nasty high PG juices.

In other words, imagine a world in which Phil Busardo and Dimitri's preferred vaping style is all that was out there. Scary. I'd be at the 7/11 buying a carton of Camels tomorrow.