Vapor Flask V3 DNA40 Clone thread

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yo han

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Exactly, we can only speculate. What I meant to was: it can be fixed real soon but it may as well take quite some time because we have no clue how much circuit boards they have in stock. They're certainly not going to come up with a fix when they still have loads of them ready to be assembled.
 
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seanol

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@seanol,
Doris at Focal had also sent me a reply email a week or so ago concerning them getting SXK after I had emailed her early on. So I may or may not be able to get one. I too like @TheBloke am waiting on resistance issue to be fixed before getting another. Especially now that he(TheBloke) is in contact with SXK. I believe they will fix issue. I definitely want another. I have the 40w & want a 60w. So far though mine works great especially after I got nickel & started to make my coils. Anyway, my point is PM me if your attempts & theBloke's to get one don't work out & I will email Doris back & see what happens.

@Unior,
Man, I can't thank you and @TheBloke enough for your generosity! You guys are what makes this forum great. I am paying forward my old flask to @garyss so he can make it something I can't.

You all rock!
Regards,
Sean
 
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TheBloke

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I've been doing my temp testing and have some findings on the SXK

I started out testing Ni200 but was then rather surprised to find my Ni200 wire does not have the expected TCR of 0.006 / 0.0062! Rather it's right down at 0.0045. So while the results were useful for this wire, it's not generally applicable. I have ordered some more NI200 from a different supplier so that I can hopefully re-test with more generally applicable wire.

What I did learn, as you will also see below, is that the NP offset required for "low resistance" is far smaller than anticipated. It's still there, but it's in the region of 5 - 10 rather than the 10, 20, 30 type offset that my calculator was suggesting.

Below is a copy of a post I just made to the Beyond Ni200 thread, where I first verified the TCR of my Germany Titanium wire (0.0035 as expected) and then tested this with varying NP settings on my SXK.

More details, including a graph of the same coil on the Dicodes 2380 (somewhat more accurate, as might have been predicted!) in the Beyond Ni200 thread from this post onwards.

SXK NP setting for a 0.41Ω coil read as 0.35Ω using Zivipf Titanium Grade 1 (TCR 0.0035): recommended NP40




NP 35 is the 'right' setting according to the TCR; NP 40 is the most accurate setting. So the resistance drop appears to require a slight increase, but nowhere near what my calculator indicated.

Putting these numbers into the calc gives a recommendation of NP 51! Clearly that is way, way off.

As to why, I cannot yet say. Most likely conclusion is that it's using a different resistance figure for the TC calcs than the one it shows on screen. Maybe the "low resistance" is really mostly a display problem? Hard to know as yet. I will try and do some testing on the output volts of the device to see if I can conclude anything further from that.

What we can see immediately is that SXK's TC is rather less accurate overall - jumps a lot both above and below, so the target is more a 'trend' than a limitation. Though this is still a dry coil situation, a test where it's reasonable that it doesn't do super well (even if its more expensive competitors do better.) A wet coil temp test will be more interesting.
 

TheBloke

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I hope I will have my Ni200 wire by Friday so I will re-test at that point and post my recommendations based on real temp testing at that time.

The brief conclusion is that the default NP70 is probably right, despite any low resistance offset! When I tested with Ni200 with a TCR of about 0.005, I used NP60 (+10) and it was accurate. So I expect with proper Ni200 with TCR 0.006, a setting of 70 (also +10), or maybe 71-72 at most, will be right.

Note that these are just findings based on dry coil temperature testing, it isn't yet confirmed that the same readings will be right for real wet-coil vaping - they would be in other mods, but this remains to be confirmed.

In the meantime, please disregard my Low Resistance calculator :) I believe the resistanec displayed on screen is not the resistance used for the chip's TC calculations. It's even possible that it's purely a display issue - we had some thoughts on that when the volts didn't seem to match, although I thought we did also see volts that were too low for the real coil resistance.

I will be testing actual volts fired in non-TC mode as well as more temperature testing to see if I can work out exactly what's going on; whether the resistance is really low as far as the chip sees, or if it's just on-screen.
 
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TheBloke

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Oh also once I get proper Ni200 I'll temp test the Waidea - I tried already and couldn't understand why it was seemingly taking every coil way over temp. Took me quite a while to realise it was the wire! (And yes, this means every Ni200 coil I've made in the last two months has been inaccurately controlled in every mod I've used. I did wonder why I seemed to prefer 380°F where many/most people did 420-450°F! :) )

If you're in the UK, don't buy Ni200 from Crazy Wire / wireandstuff.co.uk! I suspect it's right at the minimum 99% purity Nickel that can still be called Ni200. I might just have got unlucky (twice, as I ordered two lots, two weeks apart, both of which test way low, but conceivably could all have been the same batch.) I will contact them about it.
 
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HolmanGT

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Oh also once I get proper Ni200 I'll temp test the Waidea - I tried already and couldn't understand why it was seemingly taking every coil way over temp. Took me quite a while to realise it was the wire! (And yes, this means every Ni200 coil I've made in the last two months has been inaccurately controlled in every mod I've used. I did wonder why I seemed to prefer 380°F where many/most people did 420-450°F! :) )

If you're in the UK, don't buy Ni200 from Crazy Wire / wireandstuff.co.uk! I suspect it's right at the minimum 99% purity Nickel that can still be called Ni200. I might just have got unlucky (twice, as I ordered two lots, two weeks apart, both of which test way low, but conceivably could all have been the same batch.) I will contact them about it.

Bloke,

I wish I could remember whom it was but there was a post on YouTube reviewing some TC Mod. Anyway the guy found temperature readings with Ni200 varied considerably from brand to brand.

I will try to find it via what I have watch on YouTube (which is a lot). If I can find it I will PM you with the information. It might be good to contact this guy just to collect information on what he has noticed.

Anyway for me I have notice a difference between Lightning Vapes and Temco Ni200.

As far as your calculation you are so far over my head I am having trouble just following you but I really think you are on to something that will benefit us all. What caught my eye was folks were find 420 - 450 F good as did I until I got the roll of Temco Ni200 wound a coil right away did a dry cotton test and while it didn't catch fire my wick did turn a nice Chocolate Brown so now I have to run the Temco at 360 - 380 F.
:2c:

Thanks for all the difficult and tedious work. I knew enough to know something was wrong but not enough to pursue an answer.
 

druckle

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Bloke,

I wish I could remember whom it was but there was a post on YouTube reviewing some TC Mod. Anyway the guy found temperature readings with Ni200 varied considerably from brand to brand.

I will try to find it via what I have watch on YouTube (which is a lot). If I can find it I will PM you with the information. It might be good to contact this guy just to collect information on what he has noticed.

Anyway for me I have notice a difference between Lightning Vapes and Temco Ni200.

As far as your calculation you are so far over my head I am having trouble just following you but I really think you are on to something that will benefit us all. What caught my eye was folks were find 420 - 450 F good as did I until I got the roll of Temco Ni200 wound a coil right away did a dry cotton test and while it didn't catch fire my wick did turn a nice Chocolate Brown so now I have to run the Temco at 360 - 380 F.
:2c:

Thanks for all the difficult and tedious work. I knew enough to know something was wrong but not enough to pursue an answer.
George:

I've used Temco Nickel 90% of the time and it doesn't seem to like a temp setting over 400F. I'm not surprised that you would find big differences between nickel sources because the manufacturing processes used to make Nickel make metallic contaminants highly likely and difficult to control.

One of the reasons I like titanium so much is that the Kroll process produces an inherent high purity product and only one metallic contaminant is really possible in significant quantities and that is easy to control. So far titanium from three sources has been almost exactly the same with respect to temp setting although it has varied widely with respect to "springyness". That's a matter of the wire drawing process variation and can easily be changed with a little temperature.

Duane
 

HolmanGT

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George:

I've used Temco Nickel 90% of the time and it doesn't seem to like a temp setting over 400F. I'm not surprised that you would find big differences between nickel sources because the manufacturing processes used to make Nickel make metallic contaminants highly likely and difficult to control.

One of the reasons I like titanium so much is that the Kroll process produces an inherent high purity product and only one metallic contaminant is really possible in significant quantities and that is easy to control. So far titanium from three sources has been almost exactly the same with respect to temp setting although it has varied widely with respect to "springyness". That's a matter of the wire drawing process variation and can easily be changed with a little temperature.

Duane

Duanne,

Now you tell me and now I understand why you and Tony have been dogging me about Ti. When I first started experiencing these temperature variations was about the time you and Tony were off on the Ti quest.

I was gun shy and my reasoning albeit I don't think I told you or Tony was that if I am getting strange results with Ni all I need is something that the Mod doesn't even know about like Ti.

I just tried to send a message to Arthur asking how he was changing the temperature coefficient in his Mod and the ECF PM module locked me out and I never could get a message off to him.

Duane - all I want to do is use a a TC mod that I don't have to stick a wet finger in the air before setting my TC - :shock: Actually all I want to do is vape without trying to remember all my thermal dynamics classes verbatim. But oh no I find myself Googling things like Thermal Coefficient, Bernoulli equations and Venturi calculations in an attempt to find out what to set my TP at.
 

druckle

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Duanne,

Now you tell me and now I understand why you and Tony have been dogging me about Ti. When I first started experiencing these temperature variations was about the time you and Tony were off on the Ti quest.

I was gun shy and my reasoning albeit I don't think I told you or Tony was that if I am getting strange results with Ni all I need is something that the Mod doesn't even know about like Ti.

I just tried to send a message to Arthur asking how he was changing the temperature coefficient in his Mod and the ECF PM module locked me out and I never could get a message off to him.

Duane - all I want to do is use a a TC mod that I don't have to stick a wet finger in the air before setting my TC - :shock: Actually all I want to do is vape without trying to remember all my thermal dynamics classes verbatim. But oh no I find myself Googling things like Thermal Coefficient, Bernoulli equations and Venturi calculations in an attempt to find out what to set my TP at.
George:

Well, the best investment I've made EVER in a mod is not the SX Mini M class (I know you will find that hard to believe given how satisfied I have been with that device). The best by far is the SXK vapor flask clone. The reason for that is that it has a nice little feature they call "purity" which is really a way to set the temperature coefficient of resistivity. The TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance | E-Cigarette Forum thread has some guys like TheBloke who are doing some fantastic work in looking at how these things really work.

Unfortunately that device became hard to find in the last week or so but at $59 which is what I paid it's been absolutely brilliant.
I guarantee that if you were using a titanium Grade 1 coil those folks could make it all simple. Heck I'll even supply you with the setting you need for purity for a very small price (free). Tony also seems to like his new toy and that has a setting for titanium right on the screen. I might have gone that way if I hadn't bought the SXK flask first but I like the vapor flask form factor and replaceable batteries so I'm ok with what I did.

I know that TheBloke is in contact with SXK and it looks like they will have the flask available again soon.
Hang in there man. Better times are coming and at a good price.

Duane
 

Nibiru2012

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I've never had any issues with Temco Ni200 wire at all.
Either with the Kangxin Vapor Flask VF3 TC MOD 40 watt or my new iPV4.

Must be the chipsets. Besides I don't see what all the fuss is about titanium wire. Vaping should be kept simple, not having to worry about all this conversion stuff.

Basically I believe what it all boils down to is how well the coil is made and setup. That to me seems to be the difference.
When I first started with Kanthal coils it was a learning curve and took a few weeks to finally get it right.
With nickel wire maybe just a few days or so.

The biggest difference I've found is how large the ID of the coil is, the bigger ID coils vape better, feed liquid better with more flavor.
I wrap 26ga. Ni200 at 3.5mm ID with a 6/7 or 7/8 wrap and use Japanese cotton pads for wicks. Ohms are around 0.08 to 0.09 or so resistance.
Consistent warm vapes with lots of flavor and vapor...
 

HolmanGT

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George:

Well, the best investment I've made EVER in a mod is not the SX Mini M class (I know you will find that hard to believe given how satisfied I have been with that device). The best by far is the SXK vapor flask clone. The reason for that is that it has a nice little feature they call "purity" which is really a way to set the temperature coefficient of resistivity. The TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance | E-Cigarette Forum thread has some guys like TheBloke who are doing some fantastic work in looking at how these things really work.

Unfortunately that device became hard to find in the last week or so but at $59 which is what I paid it's been absolutely brilliant.
I guarantee that if you were using a titanium Grade 1 coil those folks could make it all simple. Heck I'll even supply you with the setting you need for purity for a very small price (free). Tony also seems to like his new toy and that has a setting for titanium right on the screen. I might have gone that way if I hadn't bought the SXK flask first but I like the vapor flask form factor and replaceable batteries so I'm ok with what I did.

I know that TheBloke is in contact with SXK and it looks like they will have the flask available again soon.
Hang in there man. Better times are coming and at a good price.

Duane

Duane,

I accidently stumbled on the "Beyond Ni200" thread and was very impressed with Bloke's efforts and knowledge. He apparently still remembers all the Thermal Dynamics 101 I have long since forgot.
I like my SXmini a lot and I never had any trouble until the Temco 26 Ga adventure. And honestly I think that is when all my quirky temperature stuff started. Prior to that (i believe) I could do the water test and come out with numbers so close to 212 (100 for Tony) that I was absolutely amazed. I am not throwing in the towel yet... but for some reason tonight and coming on that thread where "TheBloke" sounds like he has a real grasp on what may be going on and a way to fix it I just found myself so far out of my capabilities that it really bummed me out.

Not tonight but hopefully first thing in the morning I am going to put some "Lightning Vape" Ni200 back on my SX and see what that does. I will say that the Temco 26 Ga is like the good ol-days with Kanthal it is just so easy to work with. By the way just to muddy the water the Temco seems to work fine on the DNA40 or close enough that it doesn't cause me any problems.

It really irks me that because I wasn't expecting any problems I didn't pay attention to whom I was doing what to and now trying to reverse my footsteps is not being very productive.

I am so tired I am not even going to re-read this so you will just have to live with my (more than usual) grammatical errors. Besides I didn't do my keyboard did.
 

HolmanGT

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I've never had any issues with Temco Ni200 wire at all.
Either with the Kangxin Vapor Flask VF3 TC MOD 40 watt or my new iPV4.

Must be the chipsets. Besides I don't see what all the fuss is about titanium wire. Vaping should be kept simple, not having to worry about all this conversion stuff.

Basically I believe what it all boils down to is how well the coil is made and setup. That to me seems to be the difference.
When I first started with Kanthal coils it was a learning curve and took a few weeks to finally get it right.
With nickel wire maybe just a few days or so.

The biggest difference I've found is how large the ID of the coil is, the bigger ID coils vape better, feed liquid better with more flavor.
I wrap 26ga. Ni200 at 3.5mm ID with a 6/7 or 7/8 wrap and use Japanese cotton pads for wicks. Ohms are around 0.08 to 0.09 or so resistance.
Consistent warm vapes with lots of flavor and vapor...

Chipsets, brand of wire... etc at the moment they are all under suspicion.

By the way Nibiru, I have been using 4.5 mm ID coils for the last month or so and even without TP control you can't suck one of those dry. It's like the Energizer Bunny... "It just keep on going". If you have an Atty (I use the Lemo 2) that will take that size coil give it a try I think you will be amazed at how well it works. Caveat I do use Rayon but I thing cotton will work just as well. Who knows maybe better.

PS - the Oort cloud really... that is pretty far out there. :lol:
 
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HolmanGT

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I'm interest to see if there's a difference with ni200 temps between the clone boards and the Evolv board

Check a couple of posts up Duane makes reference to some advantages of the clone SXK to the DNA. I also noticed some difference in the way the SXmini handles Temco Ni200 vs the DNA40 with the DNA40 slightly better. At the moment I have so many variables going I can't give a real definitive answer.

Also check out he "Beyond Ni200" thread that Duane makes reference to they are dealing with the clones and Temperature Coefficient settings.
 

yo han

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Focal has received their 10 samples but they're not going to be available in the store yet.
She's reserved one for me and asked if I wanted them to perform certain tests before shipping it to me.
I couldn't think of any though and told her the issue with the incorrect resistance reading is something SXK has to fix.
So, I'm awaiting payment information and hopefully it'll be on its way soon.
 
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Shogun1024

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Focal has received their 10 samples but they're not going to be available in the store yet.
She's reserved one for me and asked if I wanted them to perform certain tests before shipping it to me.
I couldn't think of any though and told her the issue with the incorrect resistance reading is something SXK has to fix.
So, I'm awaiting payment information and hopefully it'll be on its way soon.

My salesman at SXK confirmed this AM that my shipment of flasks shipped today via DHL. They had a hold up according to him regarding board program... assuming another firmware revision? Ill let you know my findings when they are received.
 

dwcraig1

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I can say for sure I'd like to have a mod with one of those Evolv DNA200 boards but I think it will be quite some time before I might acquire one. Maybe Hcigar will build one that I can afford or China will (they will) clone it. It sure would have been nice if it was made for 100 watts and just two batteries in parallel though and could go into my Waidea flask. Just dreaming here I guess.
 

WeirdWillie

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I can say for sure I'd like to have a mod with one of those Evolv DNA200 boards but I think it will be quite some time before I might acquire one. Maybe Hcigar will build one that I can afford or China will (they will) clone it. It sure would have been nice if it was made for 100 watts and just two batteries in parallel though and could go into my Waidea flask. Just dreaming here I guess.
Personally I can't even fathum why anyone would need 100 watt TP device much less 200 watt.
IMO any TP device over 50-60watts is pointless and counter productive.
 
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