Vapping banned at work, but the ignorant statements...

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Dfinch

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Hillsboro, OR city council just voted 5-1 to ban the use of e-cigs in all public parks. One council member cited his research on the American Lung Association website and raised concerns about second hand exposure and lithium battery safety.

Charcoal grilling, cells phone batteries, remote control vehicles and laptops are still allowed.
 

CKCalmer

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Aaaaaaaand this is why I don't work for other people anymore.

I'm not even going to write one of my ten paragraph rants on this one. Because all the ones I've written elsewhere apply to this too.

Truth doesn't vary. The odds of them caring enough to learn the truth about e-cigs and vaping and setting their corporate policy according to truth rather than knee jerks are dauntingly low.

So the only viable options for our friend Jason are (1) resignation, (2) fight the policy verbally with HR, (3) use civil disobedience and vape anyway and (4) just accept the rule and keep trudging onward.

(1) would be giving up on several levels, the worst of all being the complete loss of income, which makes it unfeasible.

(2) might be worthwhile, and is the best option for maybe improving the chances for alteration of the policy to something more logical and just. But alas, the "maybe" in the previous sentence statistically equals "never".

(3) would simply get him fired, after which the chances of changing the minds in the company's HR department go from miniscule to zero.

(4) seems unbearable on principle to the likes of me, but even if it were me instead of the OP, I would require a source of income, also like our friend Jason, so I'd most likely have to accept this option.

Ugh. Life just sucks sometimes.

By the way [semi-related to this topic], has anyone here seen the indie film Wristcutters: A Love Story? (Aside: If you haven't, I highly recommend it. It's very well written and acted, and is much more touching than I thought it would be. It's a great film that was made on a practically zero budget.) Sometimes it feels to me like the world in which we live is gradually becoming the world of "purgatory" in that movie. A bad thing is happening from on high, and it would seem in every way that there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

This is also why I tend not to read threads like this. Not that they're not relevant and CRITICALLY important to our cause. It's that reading more than about one of them per week simply makes me angry, and I don't like me when I'm angry. And yet, I don't want to be ambivalent either, though. Part of the problem is that when I read threads such as this one, I am compelled by all the strength of the three fates to respond both by voice and by the written word.

So I become torn between multiple principles. It's far from my first time encountering this, and I'm quite certain it won't be my last.

And I also just realized that I said I wasn't going to write a ten paragraph rant, and look what I did... I wrote a ten paragraph rant.

Typical. :facepalm:
 
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ronchinoy

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I know you are going to hate me for saying this. But really the only people to blame for all this baning of e-cig in public / work / etc are guys using e-cig. You have brought this upon your self. By abusing your right to vape. And showing no consideration for others.

Its one thing to use your 510 e-cig carto in public / work. Where the smoke can hardly be seen. It leaves no smell.
But then I see guys trying to sit and vape their tanks. Blowing huge huge friggin clouds. That have very very strong smell.
I see no reason why others who do not smoke have to put up with this.

It is the e-cig community that has ruined it for us.

At the club the other day. There was a live band playing. And nobody was supposed to smoke. It was a no smoking hall.
I took out my carto took a few drags nobody noticed. Nobody minded.
Then another guy took out his tank and started blowing clouds. Club security where on us. And I was asked to go out and smoke too.

Really guys. Just because you can dont abuse the privilege.
When it comes to changing the rules. People are just looking for an excuse they dont give a .... if it makes sense or not.

Im just boiling mad at these idiot vapers who abuse their right to smoke in public. Feel like they deserve a good whack on the head.

OP if I was in your shoes. I would collect some hard data on the subject and put it up to HR in writing. That way they would need to offer a formal reply.
I would also like to strike a middle ground with them i.e. show them how a carto works and ask if they where ok with it.
 
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jpargana

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Can someone post the exact scientific study that says second hand vape smoke will not input nicotine or the bi-products of wick material or glycerin or flavors into those that are exposed to it?

Is there such a study?

I am just curious.

Can someone post the scientific studies the OP's management used to ban the e-cig at work? Do those "studies" say that second-hand vapour WILL input nicotine or byproducts into those bystanders?

If someone decides to ban something, then it should be THEIR burden to clearly state why, and PROVE that it is harmful. Not the other way around.


Think about cell phone radiation, for example. Or WI-FI. Can I demand my management to forbid their use, for my health's sake, because there is no conclusive study to show us clearly that those radiations ARE harmless?


How many more people would have died, if Pasteur delayed the discovery of peniciline for years without end, until it was proven to be safe for EVERYONE? (Which it isn't, BTW)...
 
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CKCalmer

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Can someone post the exact scientific study that says second hand vape smoke will not input nicotine or the bi-products of wick material or glycerin or flavors into those that are exposed to it?

Is there such a study?

I am just curious.
The following link takes you to a fairly extensive list of scientific studies on "e-smoking", as too many people are calling it. I've read a few of them, but not all of them. There should be a significant quantity of independently verifiable facts in them, however.

CASAA ||| Scientific Opinion: Electronic Cigarettes
 
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zapped

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not really sure what the big deal is? even if their information is faulty, they don't have to give you a reason, they could just say don't do it

my work told us we couldn't vape inside because it would set off the fire alarms, no need to question it, i still vape but i don't blow out clouds, but if i get caught i know i have no one to blame except myself, regardless of what the studies show, thats not important here

most of the vapers go out with the smokers and they need to walk off campus, no big deal, it's not worth trying to get into proving them wrong, it won't help

Vaping will NOT set off a fire alarm unless you blow a concentrated stream directly into the unit. FYI if you blow ANY particulate into a smoke alarm it will have the same effect, dust,talcum powder, dry ice etc.

The vapor from our electronic cigarettes and pvs has a much higher dissipation rate than cigarette smoke and this has been proven by numerous studies....some are even listed on the CASAA site.

I strongly disagree with your last statement. The key to acceptance when it comes to vaping is educating those around us and that education is one of the reasons this very forum was created to start with.

Perpetuating lies because were too scared to question so-called authority or to refute false statements is both lazy and defeatist.

Everyone's the dumber for heeding that line of reasoning and everyone loses as a result.Both vapers and non vapers alike.
 
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young gotti

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Vaping will NOT set off a fire alarm unless you blow a concentrated stream directly into the unit. FYI if you blow ANY particulate into a smoke alarm it will have the same effect, dust,talcum powder, dry ice etc.

The vapor from our electronic cigarettes and pvs has a much higher dissipation rate than cigarette smoke and this has been proven by numerous studies....some are even listed on the CASAA site.

I strongly disagree with your last statement. The key to acceptance when it comes to vaping is educating those around us and that education is one of the reasons this very forum was created to start with.

Perpetuating lies because were too scared to question so-called authority or to refute false statements is both lazy and defeatist.

Everyone's the dumber for heeding that line of reasoning and everyone loses as a result.Both vapers and non vapers alike.

i know it's wrong, but it's not for anyone to question it, i know i can't vape inside, regardless of the dumb excuse....but the excuse isn't important, even if i show them proof that the alarms won't go off....will it matter? no....what good is it going to do? even if they know they are wrong won't change their mind, and i can't really blame them, i probably shouldn't be allowed to vape inside of work

education is important but i had this conversation yesterday with someone, the internet is a great resource but people don't use it the way they should...if they aren't vapers, they probably don't care about the education on the matter, they just go by what they hear on tv or whatever.....i work in the fitness world and it's crazy how many ppl think creatine is a steroid or changes your brain chemistry because they randomly heard it somewhere or how people think the food pyramid is the way to go even though if they do some research they'll see it is not, heck ppl follow dr oz as gospel, even my father, then i have to prove what he says is bogus

people have to pick their battles and if someone doesn't want you to vape inside, thats not a big deal and ppl don't need to throw a hissy fit about it, if my friends don't want me to vape in their car, i dont' question it, it's their decision....no biggie
 

Cullin Kin

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CKCalmer

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I strongly disagree with your last statement. The key to acceptance when it comes to vaping is educating those around us and that education is one of the reasons this very forum was created to start with.

Perpetuating lies because were too scared to question so-called authority or to refute false statements is both lazy and defeatist.

Everyone's the dumber for heeding that line of reasoning and everyone loses as a result.Both vapers and non vapers alike.
Quoted for truth and for emphasis. I'm going to re-quote my favorite line in bold because it's the one that inspired the rest of my post.

"Perpetuating lies because we're too scared to question so-called authority or to refute false statements is both lazy and defeatist."

There are some lies which, if allowed to pass unchallenged, can do tremendous harm.

Letting it pass when a father tries to explain away the hand-shaped bruises on his son's arms and legs by saying his son falls a lot is to passively condone child abuse.

Letting it pass when a woman with a black eye tells you, "He loves me, it's just that he gets mad because of stress at his job" is to passively condone domestic violence.

Letting it pass when someone tells you that people of a particular race are "less than we are" is to passively condone racism.

Letting it pass when someone says or acts as if e-cigs are toxic is to silently condone the oppression of a potential cure for the global pandemic of tobacco addiction. An addiction that has killed ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE in the 20th century. An addiction that is expected to kill TEN TIMES THAT MANY in the 21st century1.

How many more people have to die before those with authority will finally stand up and say, "Maybe now is the time to change our strategies, because none of our strategies are working. More and more people are saying that using e-cigs 'saved their life', and more and more scientists are saying that e-cigs are not toxic to anyone. Let's take a closer look at e-cigs as a potential cure to this crisis."

Only if e-cigs are not completely trampled out of society might our leaders one day consider that perhaps e-cigs can do what a growing number of people will be saying they can do: Provide the most effective smoking cessation method in the history of tobacco use.

This is why we should never let it pass when ANYONE speaks wrongly about e-cigarettes. If it's the people in your company's HR department who are doing it, what you should do is always obey their rules to the letter, and then help educate them in a very respectful and constructive manner. Show them how e-cigs work. Show them that there are five chemical ingredients in most e-cigs, and provide concise information about each ingredient to demonstrate that there is nothing toxic in an e-cig. Show them concise information from scientific studies which show that those ingredients in second-hand vapor don't even come close to toxic levels when exhaled by an e-cig user. Show them how e-cigs can save lives, and how they in fact are saving lives.

I think we get blinded sometimes by the "hobby" aspect of vaping. We love our myriad gear. We love our myriad e-juices. Yes, vaping has become a hobby for many of us, but it's not JUST a hobby. Vaping is important to human society. And it's not something at which people should turn up their noses simply because they heard exaggerated or blatantly incorrect information on the six-o'clock news.

E-cigs can - and God-willing, will - save millions of lives in this century if, and only if, governments and commercial entities stop blocking their use, and instead learn verifiable facts about e-cigs so that they will know that vaping is not toxic to anyone, not to the vaper and not to the non-vaper standing nearby.

If our government and corporate leaders make it difficult for smokers to switch to e-cigs, a completely preventable tragedy will ensue.

If I were JasonK94Z, I would schedule a 30-minute meeting with my HR director. Half-an-hour is a reasonably small burden on a busy schedule, but it would give me enough time to present the information I described above, and to answer quite a few questions as well before the time is up.

You never know whether you can change a person's mind until you try.


1 Source: The American Cancer Society


P.S.: JasonK94Z, that's a hot looking bike in your avatar. I'm speaking as someone who has never ridden, but wants to more and more each year that passes. First book I sell, I swear I'm buying a bike.
 
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WharfRat1976

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Quoted for truth and for emphasis. I'm going to re-quote my favorite line in bold because it's the one that inspired the rest of my post.

"Perpetuating lies because we're too scared to question so-called authority or to refute false statements is both lazy and defeatist."

There are some lies which, if allowed to pass unchallenged, can do tremendous harm.

Letting it pass when a father tries to explain away the hand-shaped bruises on his son's arms and legs by saying his son falls a lot is to passively condone child abuse.

Letting it pass when a woman with a black eye tells you, "He loves me, it's just that he gets mad because of stress at his job" is to passively condone domestic violence.

Letting it pass when someone tells you that people of a particular race are "less than we are" is to passively condone racism.

Letting it pass when someone says or acts as if e-cigs are toxic is to silently condone the oppression of a potential cure for the global pandemic of tobacco addiction. An addiction that has killed ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE in the 20th century. An addiction that is expected to kill TEN TIMES THAT MANY in the 21st century1.

How many more people have to die before those with authority will finally stand up and say, "Maybe now is the time to change our strategies, because none of our strategies are working. More and more people are saying that using e-cigs 'saved their life', and more and more scientists are saying that e-cigs are not toxic to anyone. Let's take a closer look at e-cigs as a potential cure to this crisis."

Only if e-cigs are not completely trampled out of society might our leaders one day consider that perhaps e-cigs can do what a growing number of people will be saying they can do: Provide the most effective smoking cessation method in the history of tobacco use.

This is why we should never let it pass when ANYONE speaks wrongly about e-cigarettes. If it's the people in your company's HR department who are doing it, what you should do is always obey their rules to the letter, and then help educate them in a very respectful and constructive manner. Show them how e-cigs work. Show them that there are five chemical ingredients in most e-cigs, and provide concise information about each ingredient to demonstrate that there is nothing toxic in an e-cig. Show them concise information from scientific studies which show that those ingredients in second-hand vapor don't even come close to toxic levels when exhaled by an e-cig user. Show them how e-cigs can save lives, and how they in fact are saving lives.

I think we get blinded sometimes by the "hobby" aspect of vaping. We love our myriad gear. We love our myriad e-juices. Yes, vaping has become a hobby for many of us, but it's not JUST a hobby. Vaping is important to human society. And it's not something at which people should turn up their noses simply because they heard exaggerated or blatantly incorrect information on the six-o'clock news.

E-cigs can - and God-willing, will - save millions of lives in this century if, and only if, governments and commercial entities stop blocking their use, and instead learn verifiable facts about e-cigs so that they will know that vaping is not toxic to anyone, not to the vaper and not to the non-vaper standing nearby.

If our government and corporate leaders make it difficult for smokers to switch to e-cigs, a completely preventable tragedy will ensue.

If I were JasonK94Z, I would schedule a 30-minute meeting with my HR director. Half-an-hour is a reasonably small burden on a busy schedule, but it would give me enough time to present the information I described above, and to answer quite a few questions as well before the time is up.

You never know whether you can change a person's mind until you try.


1 Source: The American Cancer Society


P.S.: JasonK94Z, that's a hot looking bike in your avatar. I'm speaking as someone who has never ridden, but wants to more and more each year that passes. First book I sell, I swear I'm buying a bike.

Comparing that it is a responsibility to properly explain the merits of vaping to someone juxtaposed to child abuse or domestic violence or racism smells like a weasel and makes my guts churn a little bit...
 

WharfRat1976

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The only "truth" about vaping is there is no "truth" about vaping. I've read everything. Medical and Scientific "truth" is loaded with BIAS as our most vapors when you read some of this drivel. If you have a pink pair of glasses on, the world is pink. If you walk around with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
 

DrMA

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My position is best reflect by the famous MLK quotes:

«One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.»
«[...] we will take direct action against injustice without waiting for other agencies to act. We will not obey unjust laws or submit to unjust practices. We will do this peacefully, openly and cheerfully because our aim is to persuade.»
 

Jman8

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:mad: The ignorance stated in the policy has really ...... me off!

Electronic cigarettes (e.g “e-cigarettes”, “vapes”, etc) are battery-powered or other
devices that provide vaporized doses of nicotine, or other narcotics, to the user. Like
tobacco products, the nicotine contained within contributes to a number of adverse
health effects such as coronary artery disease and hypertension.
Unlike approved
nicotine replacement therapies, such as gum or lozenges used to help the tobacco-
user quit, these devices are not a proven cessation aid according to the World Health
Organization. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has also warned that they are
unsafe, and many countries have banned these devices. For these reasons, electronic
cigarettes are also prohibited as part of this policy
.


Please, somebody stop the earth, I want off. Wait, what? So the USP Nicotine in vaporizers is bad, but the USP nicotine in gum and lozenges is safe? The people in our HR dept are barely smart enough to make it to work on their own.

I highlighted the part in red and replied asking them to cite their reference. So far I have not received a response. I understand it is their building, their rules, and I respect that. However, the clear misinformation I DO NOT respect.

For me, the part I colored blue is the place to try and address the reasoning for the policy. It's the red part as well, but the blue part is what I'd take them to task on. There are studies around (though not acknowledged, yet, by WHO) that show vaping is far more effective at smoking cessation than other NRT products. And vaping isn't (or legally cannot be) about that, and yet it is far more effective.

FDA has not warned that eCigs are unsafe, but more accurately "may be." Then again, they may not be, and in reality, are really really not unsafe.

I'd suggest running some sort of seminar at the job for all those interested in actual, hands on, information about eCigs. Obviously management would have to approve this, and that would be part of taking them to task on information they chose to write up as policy. You could play it as if this has nothing to do with the policy and that you aren't seeking to change that, at this time. But as the policy is written, there will be people (many non-vapers) there that will believe this policy speaks truth, or is accurate information. You'd be conducting a seminar that brings in actual data and a demonstration to help people understand just how safe and effective they can be as viable alternative to smoking.
 

Jman8

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I know you are going to hate me for saying this. But really the only people to blame for all this baning of e-cig in public / work / etc are guys using e-cig. You have brought this upon your self. By abusing your right to vape. And showing no consideration for others.

I don't hate you for saying this. I just feel sorry for you being so misinformed about why vaping usage bans are actually occurring.
 
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