Variable Voltage and Patent

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retird

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Tony,

I think you made my point(s). There are two problems with this whole thing: 1 - Buzzkill did not "invent" VV, he took an idea that was already in the public domain and marketed it. That is not invention. Evolv, on the other hand, seem to have been the first people to "invent" the idea of constant power, which is why I believe their patent to that effect would be more defensible (however we will see, I haven't looked at their patent yet, only time will tell on that one)

2 - Your point about costs of enforcing patents and the returns is right on. I would also add the question, in a small niche market like this, what is the point? Buzzkill is obviously not doing it for the money, because, as you said, he's not going to get much money (if anything at all) from these small manufacturers. So why do it? There is only one reason to send threatening letters to small manufacturers, that is to satisfy some sense of entitlement, or just to bully, or something. Either way, it amounts to him being an ...... just because he can.

That's why I object to it. I don't understand why some of the people posting on this thread can't see that. Why would they defend someone who is obviously just being a jerk just because he can? How does that help the industry, not to mention being bad form and violating all the principles of community and helpfulness that the ECF have been built on??

And your point about "Mike, support my vices" : Excuse me, but isn't that what the whole ECF is about in the first place? How about saying "Mike, you built your business with the support of the ECF, but now you want to screw it over?"

I think you've forgotten that this guy wouldn't have a business without the ECF, and now that he's gotten what he wants out of it, he wants to deny that right to everyone else, including future vapers.

How can you think that's cool?

Great post.......ya know, all the banter here is a good thing IMO as it gives those who come here to read it a better understand and they can make their own evaluation as to the validity and motivations. It is clear to me.....
 

violetvoo

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Down the rabbit hole..
That is what my problem with it is MofC, we all came here because we quit analogs and to help and support one another. I have no problem if someone patents something they actually invented but when Nuck
and others were building and discussing VV months before some joined this forum, it is wrong to patent it and make others pay to use it. And then to claim I'm first commericially I have a right smacks to me as
Big Tobacco tactics.
 
Warf,

Why are you such a supporter of someone who is operating contrary to the spirit of the ECF and everything it stands for?

If this Buzzkill guy gets his way, the ECF as we all know it will be dead. If the free exchange of ideas ends, then this site will whither and die.

For what? A little bit of money?

You think that's okay? Honestly, please respond to my question, because this whole thing is a lot bigger than patents, and IP and all that. Its really about people abusing and trying to destroy something that is beautiful and pure, and has helped a LOT of people.

And I notice that Buzzkill has retreated to a thread where he can only be surrounded by fanboys. You accuse me of calling him names; how would you characterize someone who does that? Really, there is only one word to describe him, right?

In the interests of remaining civil I won't repeat it (because *I* want to abide by the rules and spirit of the ECF) however I think everyone reading this knows what word I mean.

It starts with a "C".
 

twgbonehead

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MC,

If the VV concept was already discussed on ECF or otherwise publicly disclosed before the patent was applied for, it can't be patented (well, any patent issued would be invalid). I think that pretty much takes the steam out of your main argument.

As for the site being "not for profit" - I don't think that's true (lots of vendors on here announcing and plugging their products, even occasionally dissing others' products) nor do I think it should be, since these "ads" are helpful to the community.
 

twgbonehead

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I think you should talk to some EE's. The answer is - it depends. Buzz said it fine below, but - There is a direct relationship between power and voltage. P=EI. If you simply vary the resistance in a circuit you vary the voltage AND the power.

Your question doesn't prove the point you are trying to make which is, I assume, "is it possible for a device which calls itself "variable power" to be patenable beyond the scope of "variable voltage" and the (very simplistic)answer is: it could be possible depending on how it is accomplished and if it adds utility.

Hi, guys.

I actually am an EE. In pure terms, Variable Voltage and Variable Power are not the same thing. The main reason is that the resistance of an atty or cartomizer is not a constant. First of all, as manufactured, different attys have somewhat different resistances (and some have very different resistances); a constant-power supply would put the same amount of heat into an LR cart as into a HR cart so you ought to be able to switch between the two without changing your power settings, and get a more consistent vape between the two. Also, as a cart gets older the resistance is likely to increase, so constant power would drive "fading" attys harder, making them "work until they die" rather than "fade away".

The resistance of a cart also changes with temperature; for most materials the resistance is much lower on a cold cart, and higher on a hot one. So a constant-power source would warm up a cold atty more slowly (which might be good or bad... lower thermal shock; hence possibly longer atty life, but possibly inferior dynamics).
 

GMoney

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I mean, really, let's look at this guy's behaviour:

1 - Gets the idea of VV from the ECF.

2 - Builds a product with VV in it, announces and markets it on the ECF.

3 - Watches other manufacturers build and announce other VV products on the ECF.

4 - Uses the ECF as documentation to file a patent to squash other manufacturers building VV devices.

5 - Gets his list of attack targets by making inquiries on the ECF.

6 - Defends his creepy actions with a LOOONG ECF thread.

So he has used the ECF, a community which was formed for the free exchange of ideas, and on the principle of helping others NOT FOR PROFIT, to profit from from day one (I don't have a problem with that, I am just pointing this out), and then wants to use the same community to deny that right to others.

Thus it is okay for him to exploit this resource as much as he wants, without honoring its spirit in any way, but he's going to go out of his way to prevent anyone from doing the same thing.

Mike, dude, you can't have it both ways. If you want to behave like some 3 year old in a sandbox and say "This part is MINE! Noone can touch it!", fly at it, but don't use a resource dedicated to people sharing ideas for free to do it. You can't have it both ways.

I think they have a name for people like that. Its "Hypo" something.

Oh, yeah, "-crite"

That's funny, because if I was to think of anyone behaving hypocritically it would be you. :) You are obviously an intelligent guy and you have a good amount of knowledge in this area - you just don't have enough knowledge to be making the statements you have. You remind me of the old adage "a little knowledge is dangerous".

I think you are allowing your bias to cloud your judgement. I get the distinct impression from you that you feel that patents that you benefit from are "Good" and patents that you don't are "Evil". In words as ridiculous as some of yours "You didn't invent electricity".

You should stop with the personal attack on Mike. You are entitled to your opinions but the personal aspect of your attacks and the name calling is beneath you. I am offended by this behavior.

Furthermore, Mike's attorney is in possession of all the relevant information and if he thinks Mike's embodiment is patentable, I would go with his judgement until the PTO says otherwise. Although you obviously have some experience with patents, you are over simplifying many things to support your position among a group of people who do not know anything. I would submit to you that you that you are using your limited knowledge of the law to "Bully" others here.

I only hope that, should the patent be granted, that the infringing parties DO NOT take legal advice from you MoC.
 
I didn't say that the site was not for profit. But you have to admit there is a LOT of free information on here and I want it to stay that way.

Vendors selling their wares is just fine, it falls under the "Helpful Information" category, IMHO. But manufacturers using the information on the ECF to pressure and kill other manufacturers is not.

If Buzzkill wants to do that he is well within his rights, however I think he should be a man and not use the ECF. Using the very same resource to kill his competitors that made his business is just wrong, don't you agree?

I think we should vigorously oppose him, every step of the way. Also, I think if the community (excluding his cadre of fanboys) knew the full extent of what he was doing, there would be a HUGE backlash.

That's why people need to be told.
 

alldayvape

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Warf,


And I notice that Buzzkill has retreated to a thread where he can only be surrounded by fanboys. You accuse me of calling him names; how would you characterize someone who does that? Really, there is only one word to describe him, right?

In the interests of remaining civil I won't repeat it (because *I* want to abide by the rules and spirit of the ECF) however I think everyone reading this knows what word I mean.

It starts with a "C".


What are you talking about? Angus ATAT moved this thread to this subforum.

Seriously, you guys make a big deal out of nothing. Take a chill pill and look into other conspiracy theories.
You obviously have no clue about business practices or else you would not make the comments you are making. This is how it works; like it or not, this is the real world. No freebies are given.

You snooze you lose. Period.

In any case, go buy your VV mods now and be happy. I'd be happy with an eGo kit for the rest of my life.
 
Gmoney,

Did you read my post? This whole thing has nothing to do with patents, really, it has everything to do with exploiting the ECF.

Patents are not evil or good. I have no problem with anyone's patents. I have a problem with this Mike guy's actions.

Did I not make that clear?? I thought I did. Okay, I'll state it for the record in bold letters:

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PATENTS AT ALL. JUST WHAT THIS MIKE GUY IS DOING.

Do you honestly agree that what Mike is doing is good for the community?
 

Ruppy

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MoC you assume you have a clue of Mikes intentions.
You assume you know the history of things here. Youve been a member all of two months.
You only know what you have been told or have read.
You DO NOT know what went on in Mikes business a year ago.
It is up to the Patent Office to decide now.
You constant bashing of mike is beyond a differing opinion at this point. Debate is good... this is not......MOVE ON
 

tonyorion

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Let us agree to disagree. We are mostly of the opinion that this patent idea is worthless for a variety of reasons.

If Mike got his idea from ECF, then the idea is anything but original, and Mike deserves to be shot down in flames for trying to pull off a stunt.

It is not what I am referring to. It is the attitude of some people who expect something for nothing. If none of the suppliers were making money, then there would be no suppliers. There may be a handful of us who could cobble up an e cig from scratch, but not many. I pay for a convenience of not having to mess with building a mod (been there, done that, and they work too)

I have a jar full of dead attys. I can rebuild attys and did so simply to acquire a skill that might have been needed in the event of a ban. Do I rebuild them? No, because they are a RPITA to rebuild. I buy them because it is convenient and cost effective for me.

Being on ECF only entitles you to information, not hardware.
 

Wharf Rat

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I am not mad about any patent application(not an approved patent yet).....

You say that MC has given false statements....please tell us the truth....

Yes you are about this one. You keep hammering on this, then say you're not mad.

MC and others keep saying Buzz is sending out THREATENING letters. Buzz has explained over and over that they are not threading letters and that notification is REQUIRED.

But people want to keep throwing it out there.
 
Tony,

I agree with you completely. Mike certainly has the right to be paid for products he builds, for sure! Not a right to be paid for other peoples' products, though!

And I hope you agree that the FREE exchange of ideas benefits everyone, and if you (I don't mean you in particular, I mean people in general) don't buy into that concept, then you shouldn't be using the ECF.
 

violetvoo

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Down the rabbit hole..
I guess the first "commercial" juice feeder should patent both top and bottom feeders to stop the copying. Why can't there be healthy competition and let the cream rise to the top.

I also do not have a prob with patents, if you come up with the idea, not listen to all discussions on this forum, market it to forum, sell it to forum then run to patent office and make others
pay u for doing the same thing
 
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