Vegetable Glycerin vs HUMCO glycerin-warning!

[sepper33]

Ok, hopefully someone can help here. I'm currently in Slovakia, and I'm looking to find EITHER PG or VG; I bought some e-juices and I have a feeling I'm going to want to cut them down a little bit, and also to try my hand and mixing, etc. I have a lot of time on my hands . So, does anyone know where they might carry VG or PG at Tesco? I'm not great at the Slovak language, am also kind of shy and don't feel like explaining what I need it for. So.. if there's any other Europeans here that know where I can track it down, please let me know. Thanks!

 

[the_cold_revolution]

I found this new brand of glycerine called Soylent. I wonder what it's made of?

Never heard of that.

Lu

LMAO. Are you reffering to the novel Soylent Green?

Because I really did LMAO when you read that. In case you don't know soylent green was food that was really dead people. Everybody loved it better than soylent red (real food). I really hope that was a joke so I don't look stupid...

I also hope I didn't ruin the ending for anyone who just picked it up.

 

[the_cold_revolution]

Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly - it's late - are you saying that all glycerin labeled as USP is made by Humco and made from vegetable oils, not animal fats, or petrochemicals?

Can you explain why I notice such a difference between Heritage "100% vegetable glycerin" - also labeled USP - and the "generic" glycerin like the stuff found in a pharmacy?

Before you say "placebo" you should note that I've identified them 2 for 2 in a blind test. That is, I made two "identical" batches of juice - one with the generic stuff, one with Heritage - and had my wife mix them up on me. I did this because I thought I was tasting something weird in some juices, and finally thought about the VG, so I tested it blind (because that's the way such a test should be done).

And I'm very curious as to what the difference could be.

okay read the rest of them replies, I am new btw, and bored
I think maybe the USP standard is regulated like the pharmisist said, differently than the NOW version or 99.9% version. That means the final substance in the bottle is different. With many people claiming this feeling it could be as common as people getting sick or allergys to PG switching to VG. Then if you have a problem with generic glecerin and bought the health food store stuff and feel fine, than more power too you. I searched this on the forum when I bought my bottle of glycern tonight and the topic was very missleading as if I was gonna die if I vaped it.

oh well, to each his own. Before vaping, I prefered menthol, but coughed up a lot of phlem on newports, and reds tasted like feet!

 

[markarich159]

okay read the rest of them replies, I am new btw, and bored
I think maybe the USP standard is regulated like the pharmisist said, differently than the NOW version or 99.9% version. That means the final substance in the bottle is different. With many people claiming this feeling it could be as common as people getting sick or allergys to PG switching to VG. Then if you have a problem with generic glecerin and bought the health food store stuff and feel fine, than more power too you. I searched this on the forum when I bought my bottle of glycern tonight and the topic was very missleading as if I was gonna die if I vaped it.

oh well, to each his own. Before vaping, I prefered menthol, but coughed up a lot of phlem on newports, and reds tasted like feet!

Correct, anything labeled USP HAS TO be made to pharmacopeial standards(otherwise it cannot bear the USP labeling). Anything not labeled USP, who know what standard, if any, it is adhering to.

 

[Scottes]

I think maybe the USP standard is regulated like the pharmisist said, differently than the NOW version or 99.9% version.

The NOW glycerin is labeled as being USP. It's regulated the same exact way that animal fat glycerin is regulated.

 

[Scottes]

All OTC glycerine,USP is made by 1 single manufacturer, HUMCO.
...
Also, USP grade Glycerine is the purest you can get. Food Grade "vegetable Glycerine" you get in health food store saying 99.9% is BS.
...
Since they do not have to meet any standard(such as USP standards) they could say anything, they could say 10000% pure.

Too bad these statements are all incorrect.

Humco is NOT the only manufacturer of Glycerin in the US.
NOW and Heritage glycerin - from health food stores - are both USP.


Basically, from your experience, from things you've dealt with, maybe you are correct in many of your statements. But you obviously don't know everything.

 

[markarich159]

Too bad these statements are all incorrect.

Humco is NOT the only manufacturer of Glycerin in the US.
NOW and Heritage glycerin - from health food stores - are both USP.


Basically, from your experience, from things you've dealt with, maybe you are correct in many of your statements. But you obviously don't know everything.

I'm looking at a bottle of it right now, It's certainly NOT labeled as Glycerine, USP. It's labeled as all health food store Veg Glycerine's are, simply Vegetable Glycerine. Here's what it says on the website:

NOW® Vegetable Glycerine is a natural by-product of the cosmetic industry. It is derived from palm oil and is 100% pure

another website says:

NOW® Vegetable Glycerine is a USP grade, all-natural product derived from vegetable oil. BUT THEN:

NOW® Vegetable Glycerine is also food grade and is pure enough to be taken internally.

1st clue-NOTHING can be 100% pure, it's an unattainable percentage; not even chemical reagent grade (which is the highest grade possible) is 100% pure.
2nd clue- the labeling says one thing and the marketing says another. Actually the marketing is inconsisent, it says (on one website)that it's USP grade(which is impossible because USP grade is 99.5%) but then goes on to say later it's food grade(which is a lower grading).

Health Food Stores products are not required to follow the strict regulations that OTC and prescription products are, therefore, you see this type of labeling/marketing inconsistency all the time.

I know I don't know everything and you can follow your gut and buy whatever you like. If you like the NOW or Heritage products, buy them. I, however, knowing what labeling requirements are in place, would be leary of a product who's labeling and contents are, for the most part, unregulated, inconsistent, and patently false. But it's a free country, if you like it , buy it.

P.S. Heritage and NOW Veg Glycerines are NOT technically OTC products, they are health food products which are regulated totally differently then OTC products. So , yes, Humco, is the only producer, that I am aware, of that manufactures Glycerine, USP. They then contract package for all the other major Pharmacy labels.

 

[Scottes]

From what I can read on USP's site, they don't actually certify OTC medicines, they just publish a list of standards for manufacturers to meet, and US law says that these products must meet those standards.

Is that correct? Or does the USP actually certify products?

And, how do we know? I just checked 3 products - Listerine, Motrin, and some generic aspirin in the company's first aid kit - and none say USP that I could find. At least two of them must be USP, though I'm not sure about the Listerine.

So the bottles are not labeled stating that they're USP, yet they must be because US law says so. Good.


So here's this bottle of NOW vegetable glycerin that says that it is USP-grade and meets or exceed all USP standards for glycerin. And there are US laws concerning fraud and false marketing that say they can't do that unless it's true, therefore it must be true.

Both are, it seems, equally credible.


As to food grade and USP grade, why something one be both? It seems that aspirin must be, since it's USP and can certainly be safely ingested by humans.



By the way, you're wrong in this statement:
"Whatever it's labeled, it's Glycerine, USP 99.5% anhydrous(meaning 0.5% water). "
The USP does not require the 0.5% to be water. For instance, the USP allows glycerin to contain up to 0.1% diethylene glycol AND 0.1% ethylene glycol. To say that it's 99.5% glycerin and 0.5% water is just as equally untrue as saying "100% Pure."

 

[markarich159]

From what I can read on USP's site, they don't actually certify OTC medicines, they just publish a list of standards for manufacturers to meet, and US law says that these products must meet those standards.

Is that correct? Or does the USP actually certify products?

And, how do we know? I just checked 3 products - Listerine, Motrin, and some generic aspirin in the company's first aid kit - and none say USP that I could find. At least two of them must be USP, though I'm not sure about the Listerine.

So the bottles are not labeled stating that they're USP, yet they must be because US law says so. Good.


So here's this bottle of NOW vegetable glycerin that says that it is USP-grade and meets or exceed all USP standards for glycerin. And there are US laws concerning fraud and false marketing that say they can't do that unless it's true, therefore it must be true.

Both are, it seems, equally credible.


As to food grade and USP grade, why something one be both? It seems that aspirin must be, since it's USP and can certainly be safely ingested by humans.



By the way, you're wrong in this statement:
"Whatever it's labeled, it's Glycerine, USP 99.5% anhydrous(meaning 0.5% water). "
The USP does not require the 0.5% to be water. For instance, the USP allows glycerin to contain up to 0.1% diethylene glycol AND 0.1% ethylene glycol. To say that it's 99.5% glycerin and 0.5% water is just as equally untrue as saying "100% Pure."

You're confusing 3 different entities, OTC drugs(which are regulated by the FDA and who's labeling requirements are also regulated by the FDA-that contain pharmacopeial ingrecdients), single ingredient OTC products that are labeled USP(also regulated by the FDA to USP standards), OTC products which are not drugs nor compendial(but may contain compendial ingredients). It would take me way too much time to go through the legalities of all these different modalities.

Rather then doing that please refer to the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906(which deal with adulterating and misbranding); The Food Drug and Cosmetic Act of 1938(which deal with safety of drug and other products and their labeling); the Kefauver Harris Amendment to the FD & C Act of 1962(which deals with drug efficacy and the NDA process as well as the associated labeling requirements) and finally the Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act of 1994(which deals with the standards relating to Herbal products/vitamins/health food items). This is going to be my last post in regard to this matter. At this point it has passed the realm of simply asking questions and , for some reason, appears to be some kind of, beat the Healthcare professional, challenge, which is frankly harrassing. Any further questions should be directed to your local Pharmacist, I'm sure they'd be glad to help.

Also with respect to your 99.5% query. I specifically restated to the questioner in a later post that I was unsure what the exact compendial specs were and that the 0.5% water comment was in reference to the "anhydrous" moniker.

 

[Scottes]

At this point it has passed the realm of simply asking questions and , for some reason, appears to be some kind of, beat the Healthcare professional, challenge, which is frankly harrassing.

Nope, not harassing the healthcare professional. Just asking the guy making all-encompassing remarks that aren't always so all-encompassing or true to clarify himself.

 

[ctruth]

Ok. I had a question about glycerine and this was a response I got.

This is not my post-I'm just passing it on.

This guy is spot on and most of you are not making any sense-as you will see.
_______________________________________________



oops. I see markarich159 caught it already - No point reposting it.

 

[ctruth]

Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly - it's late - are you saying that all glycerin labeled as USP is made by Humco and made from vegetable oils, not animal fats, or petrochemicals?

Can you explain why I notice such a difference between Heritage "100% vegetable glycerin" - also labeled USP - and the "generic" glycerin like the stuff found in a pharmacy?

Before you say "placebo" you should note that I've identified them 2 for 2 in a blind test. That is, I made two "identical" batches of juice - one with the generic stuff, one with Heritage - and had my wife mix them up on me. I did this because I thought I was tasting something weird in some juices, and finally thought about the VG, so I tested it blind (because that's the way such a test should be done).

And I'm very curious as to what the difference could be.

Going to Vegas next week. Lemme know if you interested.

 

[RSV445]

Hey Guys, I live in NY. Have found Glycerin in most stores mentioned; WalMart, Michaels, CVS and AC Moore. The only place that I have found a product labled "Pure Vegetable Glycerin" was in the Vitamin Shoppe. Thats what I'm using and it works great. Lots of vapor, no headaches or upset stomach and it is labled "Pure Vegetable Glycerin".
It says it is safe for internal use (nothing about vaping though, lol) and can be found with the skin care items. It is made by Natures Answer and their site is Natures Answer dot com. Hope this helps just a little...

P.S. Couldn't post a picture

 

[ctruth]

You're confusing 3 different entities, OTC drugs(which are regulated by the FDA and who's labeling requirements are also regulated by the FDA-that contain pharmacopeial ingrecdients), single ingredient OTC products that are labeled USP(also regulated by the FDA to USP standards), OTC products which are not drugs nor compendial(but may contain compendial ingredients). It would take me way too much time to go through the legalities of all these different modalities.

Rather then doing that please refer to the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906(which deal with adulterating and misbranding); The Food Drug and Cosmetic Act of 1938(which deal with safety of drug and other products and their labeling); the Kefauver Harris Amendment to the FD & C Act of 1962(which deals with drug efficacy and the NDA process as well as the associated labeling requirements) and finally the Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act of 1994(which deals with the standards relating to Herbal products/vitamins/health food items). This is going to be my last post in regard to this matter. At this point it has passed the realm of simply asking questions and , for some reason, appears to be some kind of, beat the Healthcare professional, challenge, which is frankly harrassing. Any further questions should be directed to your local Pharmacist, I'm sure they'd be glad to help.

Also with respect to your 99.5% query. I specifically restated to the questioner in a later post that I was unsure what the exact compendial specs were and that the 0.5% water comment was in reference to the "anhydrous" moniker.

Hey, I think you are just going by the available laws and your own experience, and being generous enough to pass that information on to us prevailing knuckle heads .

Heck, you can’t be held accountable for the marketing schemes and misstatements made by manufacturers.

You already pointed out several discrepancies in labeling and on some of the web sites.

How thick are we?

Its not your fault if some of us still don’t realize that everything we read on the net is not gospel.

Peace. And thank you again.
________________________________________
Truth be known, we are all still withdrawing.

 

[Scottes]

You're kidding, right ctruth? You never even got your answer in that other thread, but believe you did. Sheesh.

 

[DinosaurVapor]

On the advice of forum members I bought HUMCO brand glycerin from Walmart. Very sweet and 99.5% pure with the mentioned USP standard on the bottle. Nice vapor. The sweetness was overpowering though.

One problem was it made me nauseous!!!
I'll say that again for emphasis. It made me nauseous!!!


One person had called HUMCO and asked if this was vegetable glycerin and if I remember correctly they said no, it was not. It says nothing on the bottle about being vegetable glycerin.

Don't do this to yourself! Almost any health food store will carry NOW brand vegetable glycerin. Mine was about $4.00 after taxes for a 4 ounce bottle and about $7.00 for a 8 ounce bottle. Just make sure it is vegetable glycerin, OK?

I don't know about the glycerin people are buying from Michaels craft store. If it doesn't say vegetable glycerin, I would not use it myself. Your mileage and experience may differ.

that seems expensive, especially for walmart....

i cant remember the bran, but my local natural herbs store sells a 16 oz bottle of 100% Vg for $10

 

[ctruth]

You're kidding, right ctruth? You never even got your answer in that other thread, but believe you did. Sheesh.

Scottes In carefully re-reading Markarich159’s original statement, I find no anomalies with one exception – a possible typo:

“Whatever it's labeled, it's Glycerine, USP 99.5% anhydrous(meaning [not containing] 0.5% water).”

[ General definition of anhydrous: without water; especially without water of crystallization
[From Greek anudros : an-, without; see a-1 + hud r, water; see wed-1 in Indo-European roots.]]


OK, so maybe we give him 1/2 lash for the typo.

And by the way, Markarich159’s statement did answer my questions in that earlier thread. Remember the bottle in question was from a vendor who mixes juices. The bottle had no labeling except “PG/VG” (no USP). Because of his thorough description of glycerin(s), I was able to cognitively conclude that my illness had definitely been caused by those trace elements in that notorious .5% or some other unknown ingredient(s) added to the mix.

That was a relief for me in two ways: 1) Noob that I am, I did not know that VG and glycerin were the same thing (one respondent in the other thread told me authoritatively that all glycerin was pig glycerin – understand my confusion?); 2) I was able to conclude that I am probably not allergic to any pure USP glycerin. For your benefit, let me rephrase that: I know for a fact that I am not allergic to CVS “pure glycerin USP”

I find Markarich159 to be credible and certainly more knowledgeable and experienced in such pharmacopeia than most.
I thought you brought up some intelligent points too.

Lungs, ingenious and efficient organs that they are, will usually let us know PDQ if the juice isn’t right. But then like our PCs they leave it up to us to figure out why.

I will continue to do what I do now. Buy small samples of juices/mixes, test and wait to see the results (physical), ask questions if I’m unsure about something, and then buy larger quantities if and when I am satisfied with the product.



Peace

 

[MHR7331]

Picked up some CVS glycerin. Mixed this up:

40% 24mg Dekang RY4
30% glycerin
30% Capella French Vanilla

I think I've finally found my all day everyday vape. The flavors work great, good throat hit, and thick heavy vapor. Vegetable, animal, soylent or whatever, this glycerin stuff is great...

 

[bluesuede]

I got a 4 oz bottle of Swan USP Glycerin from Walmart the other day. I had to ask the pharmacist for it as they kept it behind the counter. When I got home I finally read the lablel(s) and on the front it says for External Use Only and on the back there's a warning that states: In case of accidental ingestion consult a doctor or Poison Control Center.

I'm scared to death to use this. I should probably just bite the bullet and buy some NOW VG from Amazon...

Answering my own post here because of recent new information regarding Swan label Glycerin from Walmart. (I had already decided not to use and purchased both PG and VG from the chemistrystore.com, a ECF member recommended site.)

The glycerin that we package can be either plant or animal. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Carol Jones
Vi-Jon, Inc
800.486.7926 800.486.7926 x 5240

 

[markarich159]

Answering my own post here because of recent new information regarding Swan label Glycerin from Walmart. (I had already decided not to use and purchased both PG and VG from the chemistrystore.com, a ECF member recommended site.)

The glycerin that we package can be either plant or animal. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Carol Jones
Vi-Jon, Inc
800.486.7926 800.486.7926 x 5240

refer to this post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/49621-vegetable-glycerin.html#post742407