Vegetable Gylcerin vs Generic Glycerin

[markarich159]

Hi all!

I wonder if you could tell me the difference between generic glycerin and vegetable glycerin. I bought glycerin today from drugstore (it is our local production glycerin, not imported from somewhere). The instruction said that it can be used both internally and externally. But it is just glycerin not vegetable glycerin. And I asked in many drugstores and no one heard about vegetable glycerin. What is the difference?? Are they the same? And, what is the most important, can I use the glycerin I bought for smoking?
I did not find any relevant information on the web as well.
Thank you in advance.

From another post with a few additions:

I'm a pharmacist in PA. I'm going to copy and paste a post I wrote in another subforum:

Go to the skin care aisle of most any pharmacy and you'll find a small(usually 6oz) bottle labled Glycerine, USP(Some pharmacies don't carry outright , but will special order for you). The label may have it listed as CVS Glycerine, USP or Rite Aid Glycerine, USP or Humco Glycerine, USP or Family Pharmacy Glycerine, USP etc.. you get my point. Whatever it's labeled, it's Glycerine, USP 99.5% anhydrous(check USP monograph for the additonal allowances on the remaining 0.5%). It will cost anywhere from $3 to $6 for 6oz.(CHEAP). This is vegetable glycerine, absolutely, positively, no doubt. How do I know this? Most All OTC glycerine,USP is made by 1 single manufacturer, HUMCO. It is then contract packaged into the different pharmacy labeled bottles. I've personally called HUMCO and spoke with their QA(quality assurance) person. He assured me that HUMCO's Glycerine is in fact Vegetable source Glycerine. From their company information I'll pass along the following:

Among our wholesale customers are McKesson Healthcare Solutions, Cardinal Health and AmerisourceBergen(which is the Family Phamacy and Good Neighbor Pharmacy labels) along with most regional wholesalers. In addition, Humco supplies products to Walgreens, CVS, Rite Aid and Wal-Mart. (which covers, ostensibly, all major label OTC Glycerine, USP)

So any Glycerine, USP labeled in any of the above mentioned Pharmacy lables(i.e. Family Pharmacy, Good Neighbor Pharmacy, CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreen's and Walmart labels) IS USP grade AND Vegetable sourced.


The reason it's labeled Glycerine and not Vegetable Glycerine is because #1 it is listed in the USP as Glycerine, USP and therefore(in order to keep the USP certification) must be labeled as it's listed in the USP. #2 it would cause confusion as Glycerine is Glycerine(regardless of the source - chemically 1,2,3-propane triol), to add the moniker VEGETABLE, makes it sound like it's two different and distinct products, it isn't. Also, USP grade Glycerine is the purest you can get. Food Grade "vegetable Glycerine" you get in health food store saying 99.9% is misleading. Since they do not have to meet any stringent labeling standards(such as FDA/USP standards) they could say anything(refer to the Dietary Supplement Health & Education Act of 1994 for further information) . If you get USP grade, you know you are getting exactly what is labeled(within allowable USP limits) and it is made to most stringent requirements(cGMP) available in the US. (i.e. USP stands for United States Pharmacopeia- drugs have meet higher standards then foods do). Kashrut(kosher) laws are Jewish religious dietary laws having to do with the preparation of food products and really have nothing to do with the labeled purity of the product. Also, Kashrut(kosher) laws are jurisdictional(handled differently in different places). In some cases a rabbi must come to the manufacturer and verify processes and equipment conform to kosher law and in some places it's enough that the manufacturer says or thinks he is conforming to the kosher laws. In any case USP and Kosher are 2 different things. There is no such listing in the USP for "Kosher Glycerine". To the people who are feeling naseous using pharmacy bought Glycerine, USP, it may be a placebo effect(thinking your not using the real VG) or you may have a sensitivity to Glycerine(unlikely). But it is not because the Pharmacy bought Glycerine,USP is inferior or NOT Vegetable Glycerine.

For Vapers who may have Porcine(pork) allergies or are avoiding Porcine source products for religious reasons(Orthodox Jewish or Islamic Vapers), you can use any of above Humco packaged Glycerine, USP with assurance it is a vegetable sourced product and made to the highest USP compendial standards.

 

[Scottes]

You're right, that should be added onto the last sentence.

But to meet USP requirements, that should not be a factor.

Yep. As good of a job as USP does, they're not perfect and they can't possibly meet every requirement of every person. Glycerin, chemically, is glycerin - if it were 100.0% Glycerin. That 0.5% "impurities" allowed by USP could possibly kill you. Heck, look how long it took to make a change to the DEG limits.

But if someone came along and said that their product was made to USP standards, and Kosher, and vegan... OK, so they're not regulated by anything other than their own marketing department, but that stuff is stated as being narrowed down into a finer area of knowing what it is.

 

[markarich159]

But if someone came along and said that their product was made to USP standards, and Kosher, and vegan... OK, so they're not regulated by anything other than their own marketing department,

A company is not allowed to label their product as USP, unless they are producing their product to USP compendial standards, in an FDA registered and licensed facility utilizing cGMP(current good manufacturing practices). I've tried to explain Kashrut laws as best as I can, but just using Kosher in your name is not enough, your manufacturing process has to be Rabbinically certified and, therefore, has to have one of the following Rabbinical Kosher certification symbols:


Vitamins/herbs/health food products have pretty much free reign in their labeling/marketing, again, as per the Dietary Supplement Health & Education Act of 1994.

As for the remainder of your question or any further questions you have please refer, again, to this post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-vs-humco-glycerin-warning-15.html#post738908

 

[SLDS181]

But if someone came along and said that their product was made to USP standards, and Kosher, and vegan... OK, so they're not regulated by anything other than their own marketing department, but that stuff is stated as being narrowed down into a finer area of knowing what it is.

Yup - but kosher and vegan being philosophical issues (or allergy issues, in case of peanut/pork/etc).... glycerin is glycerin. Claiming USP Glycerin is "toxic" and "dangerous" and "glycerin should not be used, only VG!" is just plain silliness.

 

[Scottes]

Claiming USP Glycerin is "toxic" and "dangerous" and "glycerin should not be used, only VG!" is just plain silliness.

I agree with this.

 

[Scottes]

A company is not allowed to label their product as USP, unless they are producing their product to USP compendial standards, in an FDA registered and licensed facility utilizing cGMP(current good manufacturing practices).

Well, this is what they said:

...the product is USP Pharmaceutical grade and tested to be free of Diethylene Glycol and has to meet our strict specs in a number of ways. Country of Origin is USA.
Glycerin USP supplied by our manufacturer meets or exceeds all the requirements of the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP), the European Pharmacopoeia (EP), and the Food Chemicals Codex (FCC) and it suitable for use in all those applications specifically authorized for Glycerin in Chapter 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (21 CFR). The manufacturing process is managed in accordance with current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMP) as required by current food laws.
...

 

[NightShadow]

And once again, it is "USP Glycerin". It may also say, sourced from, made with, whatever, but it will never say "USP Vegetable Glycerin". They aren't allowed, or they can't call it USP.

If you click the link I posted it clearly says: 99.5% USP (Vegetable-based)
I for one would like to know what the base product is, you may not care and that is fine. If they arent allowed to write 99.5% USP (Vegetable-based)perhaps someone someone should call the internet police on them


No. There has to be another factor, the biproducts as a result of each chemically different products, ie: impurities remaining.

There have been people here who have used usp glycerin sourced entirely from vegetable products who have made claims of specific brands being poisonous, toxic, etc, and that it wasn't VG (they based this claim on the fact that it didn't specifically say so on the label). It was, however, vegetable derived glycerin. These discussions have happened so many times already, which is why its a bit infuriating to see it yet again.



My point was, if they had a reaction like this, it wasn't actually USP Glycerin, its in their head, or they just kept inhaling non-stop. If all you do is puff VG all day long, inhaling all of it, non-stop.... you're going to feel sick. Your head will hurt. Your throat will feel horrible. Your chest will hurt due to irritation.

Part of my point was I have read posts where people clearly state they had a bad reaction after just a few puffs, not a 30ml vape-a-thon. The same people then went on to find a different glycerin they could vape with no trouble. I deduce from this that there is something fishy in the small percentage that is not glycerin, albiet it seems to only affect a small percentage of folks that are vaping it.

While I agree with you that the 99.5% (or whatever purity it happens to be) is C 3 H 5 (OH)3 regardless of the base product, my concern is what the remaining percentages contain.

For example if I made glycerin from peanuts (if that is even possible) while my resulting product would be 99.5% (or whatever %) C 3 H 5 (OH)3, in the remaining percentages I could (probably would is more accurate) have traces of the original base material left over. Thus depending on the base used, some people that cannot tollerate that base could have issues from vaping it. In this example peanuts which we know can and does kill people, and causes serious allergic reations withought having to consume a ton of it.

A shorter point would be, just because something is marked USP does that guarantee 100% that every human being on earth can use it with ZERO side affects, even if they use it ways not orginally thought of, like VAPING it for instance

At any rate we may need to agree to disagree.

I am not trying to stir up anything here, just curious. You stated you were tired of seing this type of post/thread come up, is that not true of any other FAQ type question people have about vaping? If it is so bothersome why not simply skip reading the thread or not post in it? Or is it more that you want people to have the correct information, which to my thinking is what all that have posted here were trying to contribute to?

 

[NightShadow]

Which is why those with nut allergies should not be using glycerin - its been covered in the new members section, the health section, etc.

It has? Thank you for mentioning it

I was only using peanuts as an example they are commonly understood to be bad for people allergic to them. In all my reading of thousands of posts here I never once ran into a single other mention of peanuts and vaping, and it is for reasons like this I for one do not get tired of things being brought up again as new views/posts bring more to the table.

 

[markarich159]

Well, this is what they said:

Scottes, we've already gone over this exact, and I mean EXACT, same thing in another thread, and I've answered this exact question before, about the NOW product:

here's the post:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-vs-humco-glycerin-warning-15.html#post738518

It wasn't last month either , it was 2 days ago, so unless you have some short term memory problem, I know you remember. This repeated, unnecessary repitition of the same question to the same person(which has already been answered) can only have one purpose, trolling. Trolling is not allowed on this forum. Again, if you like the NOW product, buy it, but please do not continue to insist a "health food" product has higher manufacturing and labeling standards then it does. All it does is create confusion for everybody else. But you don't have to take my word for it, for the last time, refer to the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 for a complete explanation as to why "health food" products do not need to comply to strict OTC FDA labeling and manufacturing standards.

 

[SLDS181]

Nightshadow, thats a web site, not the label on the product.

Buy it, read the label. It will say "USP Glycerin". This has even been touched on by pharmacists.

What you're reading is the marketing materials, essentially. They can say what they want, the label MUST say "USP Glycerin" not "USP Vegetable Glycerin". Yes, as I mentioned before, they can say "Pure vegetable sources" as well, but it absolute, 100%, has to say "USP Glycerin" or it is not eligible to be called "USP".

That remaining 1/2%? Thats typically just water, btw, not miscellaneous plant and animal parts.

Feel free to use the search tool to see how many times this has been covered.

If it is so bothersome why not simply skip reading the thread or not post in it? Or is it more that you want people to have the correct information, which to my thinking is what all that have posted here were trying to contribute to?

Because new users will see bad information, and that annoys me more.

It has? Thank you for mentioning it

I was only using peanuts as an example they are commonly understood to be bad for people allergic to them. In all my reading of thousands of posts here I never once ran into a single other mention of peanuts and vaping, and it is for reasons like this I for one do not get tired of things being brought up again as new views/posts bring more to the table.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/38696-nut-allergy.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/4430-nut-allergy-cant-vape.html

e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat - Search Forums

 

[Scottes]

Again, if you like the NOW product, buy it, but please do not continue to insist a "health food" product has higher manufacturing and labeling standards then it does. All it does is create confusion for everybody else. But you don't have to take my word for it, for the last time, refer to the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 for a complete explanation as to why "health food" products do not need to comply to strict OTC FDA labeling and manufacturing standards.

They say they adhere to the same standards. So they're not regulated. I appreciate the hell out of the USP - without it, more of us would be dead. But it does help other, non-USP companies, too. The guidelines are thorough, complete, and very good - great instructions ready-made for someone to follow. Just because a company isn't regulated doesn't mean that they aren't good.

They are better for some people, regulated or not.

Why do you keep insisting that they are worse? You keep trolling on the fact that they're not regulated - and this does not ensure poor quality, nor does it ensure lesser quality.

Get down off your high horse.

 

[Scottes]

That remaining 1/2%? Thats typically just water, btw, not miscellaneous plant and animal parts.

Typically, but not ensured. USP allows one-fifth of that remainder to be diethylene glycol, and another fifth to be polyethylene glycol. So almost half of the remaining impurities can possibly be things that aren't very good for you in quantity.

There is no regulation that says the 0.5% must be water.


USP products are known to be safe, as far as their knowledge goes, and they keep learning things. This is excellent, really. Fantastic for all of us, for sure.


But that does not mean that other products are unsafe. Now let me be clear on this, because some people apparently have a problem with reading:

I feel that other, non-USP products can be safe for most people. I have no proof, no absolute knowledge. It's my opinion.

I also feel that other, non-USP products can possibly be even safer than some USP products. Again, my opinion.

I know that USP products are safe for almost everyone, to the best of the abilities of an extremely knowledgeable body of people.

I use Heritage VG because I don't like the taste of every single USP Glycerin that I have tried. (All 5 of them.) I do not use Heritage VG because it's safer, I use it because I think it tastes better.

 

[Scottes]

A company is not allowed to label their product as USP, unless they are producing their product to USP compendial standards, in an FDA registered and licensed facility utilizing cGMP(current good manufacturing practices).

You have enough ammo to start a class-action law suit against NOW. Go for it. Prove them wrong.

 

[chicken]

So...if I want to produce more vapor than my PG juice delivers, how to I use USP Glycerine to boost the vapor producing potential of my PG juice?

 

[NightShadow]

Nightshadow, thats a web site, not the label on the product.

Buy it, read the label. It will say "USP Glycerin". This has even been touched on by pharmacists.

What you're reading is the marketing materials, essentially. They can say what they want, the label MUST say "USP Glycerin" not "USP Vegetable Glycerin". Yes, as I mentioned before, they can say "Pure vegetable sources" as well, but it absolute, 100%, has to say "USP Glycerin" or it is not eligible to be called "USP".

That remaining 1/2%? Thats typically just water, btw, not miscellaneous plant and animal parts.

Feel free to use the search tool to see how many times this has been covered.

Actually my bottle's label itself must be breaking the laws (either legal or physics) as you have stated them. If you really want I can take a low quality pic of my label here, but here is what it says:

Front: Now Vegetable Glycerine

Rear: SUGGESTED USAGE: Now Vegetable Glycerine is a USP and Food grade, all natural product derived from vegetable oil. (it then goes on to describe the various uses, vaping not included)

As I posted previously, even the USP guidlines allow for DEG and EG to be in it, so I am not willing to agree that the remaining pecentage of USP glycerine is all water and guaranteed to not include something that a small percentage of folks may have problems with using for vaping.

I hope this concludes discussion of my bottles label, unless there is some esoteric guidline for allowable variances between a front and rear label.

 

[NightShadow]

So...if I want to produce more vapor than my PG juice delivers, how to I use USP Glycerine to boost the vapor producing potential of my PG juice?

By adding some Glycerine to your PG. Opinions on ammounts will vary from a small percentage to half. They also make VG based nic juice for people who cant tollerate PG so it can be used full strength. It is much thicker than PG however.

 

[Charged]

I use vegetable glycerine from mountainroseherbs.com
It is listed as USP and Kosher and is clearly marked "vegetable", not sure why you say it can't be vegetable and USP, that makes no sense to me.

Here is the specification:
Vegetable Glycerine Profile

Botanical Name- Palm derived
Origin- Malaysia
Extraction- Isolated glycerol fats through an Hydrolysis method
Shelf life- 2-3 years
Notes- Stores well under dark and cool conditions and is extremely volatile to light exposure. This variety of Glycerine is suitable for food and cosmetic use and is USP standard 99.7% (the rest is water) with no added stabilizers, preservatives and other ingredients.
Specifications
Color- Clear
Odor/Taste- Flat aroma, very sweet flavor resembling syrup.
Glycerol content- 99.89%
Fatty Acids and Esters- 0.5
Specific Gravity- 1.26
pH- 7
Heavy Metals - <0.1 ppm
Chlorides- 5 ppm
Chlorinated compounds- <30 ppm
Sulphates- <20 ppm
Moisture- 0.016%
Organic Volatile Impurities- None detected
Diethylene Glycol and related compounds- No trace amounts detected
Vegetable Glyceine
Vegetable glycerine comes to us through a very complex and sophisticated method of extraction known as Hydrolysis, and the end product that we refer to as "Vegetable Glycerine" is usually the by-product of another oils production. The basics of this system is that the fats and oils of a raw ingredient (usually palm or coconut oils) are split into crude glycerol fats, under the combined action of water, temperature and pressure. These temperatures can exceed 400° degrees and the material is usually kept under pressure for 20-30 minutes. What is actually occurring is a sort of "counter-flow" where the water absorbs glycerol from the fatty acid phase of the oil production. After this phase this glycerol is isolated and further distilled to give buyers a standard 99% Glycerine product.
Vegetable Glycerine is a clear, colorless, and odorless liquid with an incredibly sweet taste having the consistency of thick syrup. It is used as an agent in cosmetics, toothpaste, shampoos, soaps, herbal remedies, pharmaceuticals, and other household items. Because it is soluble in both, water and alcohol, its versatility is a major benefactor in its purported growth and popularity within the manufacturing sector. It is invaluable as a natural source ingredient with emollient like properties which can soften and soothe the skin and it assists the outer epidermis is retaining moisture. This helps to explain why it is one of the most popular cosmetic additives used today.
Other uses include its solvency action which aides herbalists in extracting botanical properties from plant materials without the use of alcohol. This is especially helpful for those with alcohol sensitivities as most liquid herbal extracts contain alcohol. But given its severely limited shelf life, extracts made from Vegetable Glycerine typically have a shelf life of 14-24 months whereas alcohol extracts can have an extended shelf life of 4-6 years.

 

[SLDS181]

Wow.

I'm done. I'm going to start banging my head into the table soon.

Below "NOW"

---- HERE ----

Above "Vegetable"

Unless they've changed their label very recently (like in the past week or so), where I put "HERE" it says "USP GLYCERIN"

omg no really? wow!

*sigh*

 

[Scottes]

LOL. That is too frickin' funny SLDS. Think you could post a photo of the bottle so we can start an argument over the word "vegetable" ?

 

[bluesuede]

What a lively discussion we have here!