Warning: Johnson creek e-liquid

[Brian S]

I personally think people should start to leave poor old Mac alone.


At first everybody was banging on how great this juice was and now suddenly because of atomiser problems etc etc etc people are starting ganging up on him for any excuse as I think this all should stop immediately as it is starting to get out of hand instead of trying to support him and advise him how to improve his products.


People shouldn't be dripping their atomiser anyway they weren't designed for this and suppliers and manufacturers have told me this but we do and we should all take the consequences if things go wrong and not blame liquid manufacturers, cigarette manufacturers, or suppliers as this is still in the early stage of developing and all types of quality are out there which do differ from manufacturer to manufacturer as I have personally found that out with the research and money I have spent.

If electronic cigarettes had been around for the last 10 years and we were getting these problems with liquid then we all should have a case for complaining.


Do we ask all manufacturers what ingredients they put in their products? No because we wouldn't probably get any answers so we never bother. Do you think Mr Kentucky fried chicken would give is his recipe? I don't think so. Come on there has to be trade secrets specially regarding ingredients. As long as we are assured they are safe that should be enough.


But because the electronic cigarettes and the liquid ingredients is so new. None of us know the future of the implications. Even if tests are done none of us will really find out for years to come if this is damaging in any way to our health.


And folks I'm sorry for banging on but I feel something needs to be said and some will disagree with what I have said and I am not in any way involved with J. C. and do not use their juice mainly because I'd only prefer the true tobacco flavour type liquid and I don't like anything with almonds and fruity flavours but this is probably because it's a British thing especially regarding smoking products.


So let's leave poor old Mac alone as the least has made an effort to try to improve and give choice to what is already out there.

I agree that he is making an effort to improve his product based on our feedback. I also agree that he shoudl not share his recipie. However, a list of ingredients is included on every product in the supermarket by law. Supplying a list of ingredients will in no way compromise his "recipie." As one who has bought JC juice and enjoyed it trouble free, I have trashed all my JC juice after seeing Leaford's vidio. Out of respect for JC, I did not ask for a refund. Just chalked it up to experience. But it will take a lot of convincing for me to reorder.

Brian

 

[karenwest1961]

I don't have it in for Mac either...and I didn't ask for a refund as well.

I just want to be real. Even the health department has something to say about school bake sales anymore. We've got several problems with JC's juice. Let's just make sure it's not going to be any more of a health problem for us as the lab-brewed juices. We've called out suppliers/ manufactures before. (right MNZ? We got the supplier to change his FAQs on his website! And we got answers too.) Because Christian chose this road, he will be called out. He is not exempt because he is "one of us." If I were making your liquid myself, I wouldn't expect to be exempt because I've been here since May. If I were making your liquid, I would also show you before I sold it to you that I was qualified to do so. I'd give you reasons to trust me. A glossy website and a salespitch that could sell ice to eskimos does not qualify you.

Home-brewing is a very dangerous thing and should be handled with extreme caution. (right T-Bob?) My problem is not with Mac. My concern is for me and you. We have a right to know this stuff. We have some issues here. Dying and dead atomizers, numbing mouth, oily consistency, battery corrosion, knutselpeter's liquid test. Even one issue is too many. We can rationalize reasons for each issue til the cows come home, but bottom line is, we need Mac to answer the questions so we can finally connect the dots OR not. The common denominator of all of these issues is JC's.

So I ask. Why is he qualified to put our lives and our devices in his hands?

 

[leaford]

Christian, before I even consider ordering from your new batch, can you please answer these questions? This is information we ALL need.

Can you produce permits from the Wisconsin Board of Health?

OTOH, as a consumable, I think JC SJ should fall under the health code, but OTH, I am positive the health board doesn't have any regs to cover e-liquid. And I don't think it's Christian's duty to bring it to their attention. Or necessarily a good idea.

But, without bringing the health department into it, some kind of health and cleanliness guarantee would still be nice. I'm just not sure what more he can do than give us his assurance, which he does.

Can you show us the results for the nicotine content, after randomly boiling different tobaccos?

That would be information on his process. That's proprietary, could be used by his competitors, etc.

Can you show us your Pharmacists license , since you personally are blending this product?

Again, I am sure the laws in his state, or any other, do not cover e-liquids, or require a physicians liscence to manufacture them. And I wouldn't expect Christian to approach them and try to get one.

That said, though, I think some information about himself, like what, if any, background he has in pharmaceuticals, chemestry, or cooking, or whatever, would not only be good for the consumer to know, but could also help build brand identity and marketing image. You know, the founders story.

Can you show us photos of your special machinery?

Again, proprietary and a trade secret.

Will you produce all those purity results you have often stated you have?

That I'm sure we would all like to see. With appropriate redactions, of course.

And, can you do produce all of these right now?

I'd rather he spend his time right now working on, and testing, his new formula. Besides, that came out as a rather snippish demand. Not really called for, IMO.

 

[sanneke]

Great post Karen.

 

[karenwest1961]

Leaford, thanks for answering for Christian.

 

[MagusSteele]

Thanks Leaford,
Those were basicly the points I was trying to get across, you just did it A Lot clearer I think.

 

[Kate]

Personally I think Johnson Creek juice has great promise. This is a North American product made with and without the propylene glycol that all the other manufacturers use. It comes in great flavours and is a good price. I've heard that their customer service is good too.

I hope they get a recipe that works well and becomes popular. I'd love to see an ingredient list (without quantities) and a toxicology report, that would be very reassuring. Maybe when the new eliquid is ready they will have it tested and report back with the results.

As an aside, I'd also like to see an ingredient list and hazard warning on labels and child proof caps.

Good luck Johnson Creek (MacFan).

 

[leaford]

Leaford, thanks for answering for Christian.

I was NOT answering for him. I was stating my opinion of your questions. I thought that was clear. Sorry if I didn't make it plain enough.

 

[mEtoke2]

We've got several problems with JC's juice. Let's just make sure it's not going to be any more of a health problem for us as the lab-brewed juices.

Does anyone think the e-liquid "labs" in China have better or more stringent safety standards than their infant formula producers? I find it much easier to put my faith and hope in Christian and his product. Glass of melamine juice anybody?

 

[karenwest1961]

For the record, this is not a game nor is it an attempted slam on Christian. This is NOT a popularity contest. I have a right to ask these questions which is why I realized I should ask them in the Health Forum so there wouldn't be debate but perhaps some answers from Christian himself. And I have posted them there. This is not meant as an all out board war so NOBODY needs to have anybody's back. This is not a playground. Either you want to know or you don't. It's that simple. I know I want to know which is why I asked the questions. And I should not be chastised for asking them.

We are dealing with home-brew vs lab-brewed liquid.

 

[mEtoke2]

For the record, this is not a game nor is it an attempted slam on Christian. This is NOT a popularity contest. I have a right to ask these questions which is why I realized I should ask them in the Health Forum so there wouldn't be debate but perhaps some answers from Christian himself. And I have posted them there. This is not meant as an all out board war so NOBODY needs to have anybody's back. This is not a playground. Either you want to know or you don't. It's that simple. I know I want to know which is why I asked the questions. And I should not be chastised for asking them. We are dealing with home-brew vs lab-brewed liquid.

You are not being chastised. I am just trying to draw a parallel between your JC concerns and any e-liquid out there. What guarantee do we have on any of this stuff? It's all a crap shoot. All these producers can post anything they want about their products safety, ingredients and methods of manufacture. But just because you see it and it looks official does this mean it's the truth? All of us here are intelligent adults that have to use our own judgement on what we are putting into our bodies whether good or bad. Hopefully we are making a good decision on this product. A forum is a gathering of people and thoughts. I am giving you mine. It's great that our opinions differ on some things, thats what makes this what it is. I have learned a lot from members here. And I always look forward to reading your posts.

 

[SmokingInTexas]

My only concern about the Chinese juice is that they tell us it's been aged 16 years, and then we find something on the net that says it's only 13.

(This thread needs a little levity)

 

[Mr.Darcy]

what this thread needs is more absorption and less absolution...

 

[dimebagdave]

haha smokintexas, i wqas gonna bring up the chinese gymnasts too. i can't
believe you people actually put your trust in anything that comes from china.
when the government can "try" to outsmart, or lie to the whole world do you
honestly believe that a few little ejuice companies can't produce some doctored paperwork or safety reports to fool a few thousand ecig users. christian could be brewing his juice in his downstairs bathtub for all i care, i would trust it a helluva lot more than i trust the chinese. my opinion, flame away.

 

[MagusSteele]

Not to mention, hes alot closer to, well, lets say, get a "personal" refund if anything really was screwy

 

[sanneke]

haha smokintexas, i wqas gonna bring up the chinese gymnasts too. i can't believe you people actually put your trust in anything that comes from china.
when the government can "try" to outsmart, or lie to the whole world do you
honestly believe that a few little ejuice companies can't produce some doctored paperwork or safety reports to fool a few thousand ecig users. christian could be brewing his juice in his downstairs bathtub for all i care, i would trust it a helluva lot more than i trust the chinese. my opinion, flame away.

Well then I guess you better put that e-cig aside, because they all come from China.

 

[TropicalBob]

I think Karen and Kate are saying something that I believe is true: Our e-smoking practice is based on faith. And that is not good when it's the Chinese we put our faith in. The melamine substitution is Exhibit A. The Chinese put it in pet food and killed our dogs by the thousands last year; now we find out that they put the deadly non-food stuff in INFANT FORMULA this year.

Four dead Chinese children and thousands ill. So far.

Why? Money. Follow the money. The Chinese producers, trusted to make safe food, do this to make a few extra bucks. Melamine skews the nutrition analysis but the contaminated product is unfit for even lab rates to consume. And these Chinese corporate leaders bribe local officials so they can keep doing it until the deaths begin. Then it's every man for himself.

Think about it: We're putting our trust in something we vaporize and suck into our lungs all day, something produced by these provably untrustworthy people, something not tested by any government agency in our countries, something unregulated (as Karen says, even a school bake sale has more safety regulations), something that as I've said before could be pig pee for all we know!

I'd like Christian to be as forthcoming as he can be. He's ahead of the curve on flavors, on offering VG-based liquid, on moving to childproof tops. Now, to move forward, e-smokers need ingredient lists (without percentages that could reveal secrets). We need first-responder warnings on vials and bottles (you understand that a half-thimble full of the new 36mg liquid would kill a child in minutes). We need published lab findings on product purity and hazardous content revelations.

Until we get that, I mostly make my own e-liquid as best I can. No pig pee involved.

As for faith ... The X-Files said it well: Trust no one.

 

[mEtoke2]

Well said TropicalBob. I agree we should know what is in our liquid and the other things you mentioned. But sooner or later (probably sooner) the FDA will do all that work for us and not have the end result we are looking for. Our own requests are starting to sound a bit like government, would'nt you say? I can almost hear the clock ticking for e-fluid.

 

[TropicalBob]

It begins ticking right after some senator gets a constituent's letter complaining about the way smokers are subverting the intent of the no-smoking regulations, importing a deadly drug in vials from China, offering flavored vapor that will be attractive to "young people", avoiding taxes desperately needed in these economic times, and extending an addiction that health nuts thought they would eliminate with tobacco taxation and regulation. It's coming.

And considering the Wall Street and mortgage messes, I have new respect for well-placed regulations in places where they're needed!

 

[mEtoke2]

Correct, you can see the light on the train and we are standing right on the tracks!