!! WARNING !! Kanger Subtank RBA Insulator Dissolving Into my Juice !!! What should I use to make one?

[ErnieKim]

They are not supposed to be used over 30 watts and your demanding better because you ran it at 45 watts I've had one of my subtanks since Xmas and I've run everything through at stated voltages and the insulator is still like new even though I have packets of replacements and of the dozen or so friends that have bought subtanks since Xmas including another I bought none NONE have any issue with the insulator. If your going to run things above spec your going to get problems run anything over it's spec you'll get problems issues of dissolving insulator in comparison to the number of subtanks sold is ridiculously minute well within the number that can be attributed to user error which from the one's I've seen is exactly what the problem was.

No response, not surprising.

Facts are facts. Insulators break down because of heat. I could make a build and fire it at 20 watts and it would put more heat into the deck than another build fired at 30 watts.

Heat to the deck depends on several factors:

1) the number of wraps,
2) size of wire
3) type of wire
4) material used for deck
5) how close the coil is to the deck
6) airflow through the chamber
7) and more

From a design perspective, the worst case scenario for all factors should be considered when selecting an insulator material. In the case of the Subtank, all of these factors could EASILY have been accommodated, but they were not. We have no idea whose fault it is in this case, but we do know what could be done in the future to avoid the problem happening again: throw one insulator from each batch in an oven and see when it melts.

Unless we acknowledge this, nothing is going to change. As a group, we need to be "part of the solution" not "part of the problem". Always blaming the User is counter-productive.

Like "Racehorse" said just above, I'm REALLY tired of posters making baseless statements about user error.

 

[BigEgo]

From a design perspective, the worst case scenario for all factors should be considered when selecting an insulator material..

Agree with everything you said. The worst case is what good engineers should take into consideration. I haven't had the insulator melt on mine so far, but I realize there is a possibility of it doing so. I wonder, though, why this doesn't seem to be an issue on most RBA's? I would assume Kanger is using the same material as the other attys out there.

 

[ErnieKim]

Agree with everything you said. The worst case is what good engineers should take into consideration. I haven't had the insulator melt on mine so far, but I realize there is a possibility of it doing so. I wonder, though, why this doesn't seem to be an issue on most RBA's? I would assume Kanger is using the same material as the other attys out there.

Big,

They made a big move into sub-ohm with the Subtanks. They've got to be smart guys to have gotten this far so they must have given some consideration to the insulators. With that premise, I can think of a few possibilities;

1) they were trying to take advantage of Christmas buying frenzy (same as US manufacturers) so they just went with what was readily available and used Delrin (the first (white) insulator)
1a) PEEK parts are hard to make,
1b) not many suppliers, would have taken a while for a custom order
1c) PEEK is not common but Delrin is, lots of suppliers, could get them fast.
1d) the white insulator was fine for most people, no regs against using it so OK from a business perspective.

2) their supplier for the parts messed up,
2a) this is unlikely with such Expensive material.
2b) but you never know, With no regs and no QA, Anything is possible

3) someone sabotaged them to take them down a notch
3a) I read recently that "business sabotage" has started happening over there, just like here.
3b) if this is the case, it certainly worked.

I've lost trust with this issue and others that can directly affect my health so I'm making my own insulators from here on out. I ordered new material today. I'll probably post something when I make it. I'm making them from top-quality US made material. It will be a couple weeks for the material to get here but PM me if you don't see anything on it here and I'll mail you one.

I won't be selling any of them; way too much liability with all of us dumb Americans that are so prone to "user error"; as some people (just above) like to point out.

 

[ErnieKim]

I finally received the new PEEK material to begin making my high temperature insulator. I'll be posting pictures and the steps involved on this thread, unless I start a new one, not sure yet.

The insulators I made with the previous piece of PEEK are still as hard today as the day I made them, Unfortunately I gave all of them away and am getting a couple new Subtanks. I periodically measure the hardness with a mechanical hardness tester. The brown one provided by Kanger Subtank is getting softer everytime I check it, I'm concerned about it leeching out toxins.

There are various grades of PEEK. The material that I purchase is the highest grades. It almost feels and sounds like glass when you tap on it. I will know that no toxins are leeching off with this material, it's good to 600 degrees. The grade of PEEK typically used in low-cost tanks is nowhere near as good; you get what you pay for.

I'll begin posting pictures as I make the new insulators.

 

[ErnieKim]

I'm reluctant to show the pictures of my DIY insulator because it is a "safety-related" part in the tank. Suffice it to say that all you have to do is:
1) use the old insulator as a template
2) cut a piece of high grade PEEK to the same shape
3) drill holes the same size as the original

You just have to make sure that it is not contacting the other side wall.

I heard from a reputable source that Kanger is now using the high grade PEEK material. (Kudos to them) So you won't need to make one anyway, just buy their most current one. You can check it by testing it with a sharp object; push into the old one then the new one with about the same pressure. If the indentation made by the sharp object is smaller in the new one, then the new one is likely the harder, higher-grade material. If you have doubts, go online and buy high grade peek in sheet form like I did and just make one, it's easy.

I'm quite sure that there's a "lesson learned" here for both manufacturer and end users. We're all breaking new ground vaping and "stuff happens". It's how the "stuff" is handled that tells the story. Again kudos to Kanger on a GREAT series of tanks. I'm a life-long customer; unless something changes.

I've also learned that there are some very aggressive people on this forum who take vaping seriously. They've been a bit "over the top" sometimes but I sometimes get the same way about vaping; unless I'm totally wrong and there are long-term ill effects, vaping is adding years to my life; it's OK to get a bit emotional about it.

In the illustrious words of Forest Gump: "that's all I have to say about that"

ErnieKim

 

[ErnieKim]

I wonder if this thread will hit 20,000 views before it is closed.

 

[Vaping in NYC]

How can I contact Kanger to get a replacement?

 

[tehmidcap]

I disagree with this. You can't be mad at a company because they didn't engineer something a particular way assuming that people would be misusing it. If one were looking for equipment with top-of-the-line materials that's built to last 10 years then I think looking at a $30-$40 tank would certainly be the wrong place to look.

And they fixed the problem and started producing them with only PEEK insulators after customers began having issues. Not only that but now you can purchase additional RBA heads for less than $10 if you notice that yours is beginning to warp or something.

Regardless, derlin is still a decent enough insulator. It takes what, 350 degrees directly applied to it to actually begin melting? Unless you're dry burning hits continuously, you didn't check your coil before firing it, or you're attempting to vape .1ohm builds I can't see why this would ever happen. You as a consumer have the responsibility to know what you're buying and how to properly use it, this is especially true with any rebuildable. If insulating material is important to you then make sure that your desired material is being used before you purchase it -- Otherwise, when buying a rebuildable, I think a certain level of knowledge is assumed, and with that comes periodically checking your insulator (along with making sure your coils don't have hot legs, your wicking is working properly so that the coils stay nice and wet and therefore can't get too hot, etc).

They didn't falsifying anything, they made revisions when customers were unhappy, and in my experience their customer service is great. I see nothing wrong.

 

[Vaping in NYC]

I think at the very least there should be a warning on their website, I havent seen any.. the only thing I saw was them selling the upgraded peek insulators they are 50-99 cents, but u have to pay shipping. ..

why not send them to the Vendors?
Why not Educate the Vendors? I bought mines last week , this was my very 1st sub-ohm Tank... on my 2nd Tank It Tasted Gross,
I was using the.05 coil.

now I'm stuck with a nautilus mini, and after Sub-Ohm and having great Flavor I feel like Im wasting juice....

I hope to get this issue resolved soon, dont want to wait weeks for a piece of Plastic... might have to buy a new Tank. .

 

[Vaping in NYC]

noticed that MVS is selling replacement rba with the peek insulator for $9 + shipping of course ….

Replacement Kangertech Subtank Mini RBA Deck

I was going order an extra RBA from fastech , less than $4 fee shipping .. $3.81 Replacement RBA Coil Head for SUBTANK Clearomizer - 1.2ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
but I noticed some people said in the comments theirs don't fit the sub tank mini , so I guess it was made for the sub tank plus?….
but the rba Kanger sells fits both the mini and the plus … thought the nano didn't have an rba option...

 

[Vaping in NYC]

Just got this email from Kanger, saying the Clear RBA are fine, but I have read lots of people also had problems with the clear ..

Wonder if they changed from Clear to Beige/Brown cuz they updated the Material or maybe cuz they ran out of Stock???

They want me to mail the Insulator to them 1st, so THEN they can send me a replacement ... why the hell do I need to go tru that extra step? Why can't they just mail it to me, .. this seems like it will defy take 4eva . Ugh. .... They could atleast asked me if I needed instructions on how to take it apart tho... might be simple but a good sign of Good CS is fallowing through

 

[ErnieKim]

I disagree with this. You can't be mad at a company because they didn't engineer something a particular way assuming that people would be misusing it. If one were looking for equipment with top-of-the-line materials that's built to last 10 years then I think looking at a $30-$40 tank would certainly be the wrong place to look.

And they fixed the problem and started producing them with only PEEK insulators after customers began having issues. Not only that but now you can purchase additional RBA heads for less than $10 if you notice that yours is beginning to warp or something.

Regardless, derlin is still a decent enough insulator. It takes what, 350 degrees directly applied to it to actually begin melting? Unless you're dry burning hits continuously, you didn't check your coil before firing it, or you're attempting to vape .1ohm builds I can't see why this would ever happen. You as a consumer have the responsibility to know what you're buying and how to properly use it, this is especially true with any rebuildable. If insulating material is important to you then make sure that your desired material is being used before you purchase it -- Otherwise, when buying a rebuildable, I think a certain level of knowledge is assumed, and with that comes periodically checking your insulator (along with making sure your coils don't have hot legs, your wicking is working properly so that the coils stay nice and wet and therefore can't get too hot, etc).

They didn't falsifying anything, they made revisions when customers were unhappy, and in my experience their customer service is great. I see nothing wrong.

I have no idea what you are ranting about. Fact is Kanger screwed up and went back and made a replacement insulator. You should read the posts before you start criticizing people.

 

[ErnieKim]

Just got this email from Kanger, saying the Clear RBA are fine, but I have read lots of people also had problems with the clear ..

Wonder if they changed from Clear to Beige/Brown cuz they updated the Material or maybe cuz they ran out of Stock???

They want me to mail the Insulator to them 1st, so THEN they can send me a replacement ... why the hell do I need to go tru that extra step? Why can't they just mail it to me, .. this seems like it will defy take 4eva . Ugh. .... They could atleast asked me if I needed instructions on how to take it apart tho... might be simple but a good sign of Good CS is fallowing through

The clear insulator should be fine as long as you don't get it too hot. I wouldn't bother shipping your insulator back, just buy one of the new brown ones that are Peek material, it should last forever. Good luck and sorry, I've been away for a while.

 

[ErnieKim]

I disagree with this. You can't be mad at a company because they didn't engineer something a particular way assuming that people would be misusing it. If one were looking for equipment with top-of-the-line materials that's built to last 10 years then I think looking at a $30-$40 tank would certainly be the wrong place to look.

And they fixed the problem and started producing them with only PEEK insulators after customers began having issues. Not only that but now you can purchase additional RBA heads for less than $10 if you notice that yours is beginning to warp or something.

Regardless, derlin is still a decent enough insulator. It takes what, 350 degrees directly applied to it to actually begin melting? Unless you're dry burning hits continuously, you didn't check your coil before firing it, or you're attempting to vape .1ohm builds I can't see why this would ever happen. You as a consumer have the responsibility to know what you're buying and how to properly use it, this is especially true with any rebuildable. If insulating material is important to you then make sure that your desired material is being used before you purchase it -- Otherwise, when buying a rebuildable, I think a certain level of knowledge is assumed, and with that comes periodically checking your insulator (along with making sure your coils don't have hot legs, your wicking is working properly so that the coils stay nice and wet and therefore can't get too hot, etc).

They didn't falsifying anything, they made revisions when customers were unhappy, and in my experience their customer service is great. I see nothing wrong.

By the way, It's Delrin not Derlin.

 

[Acer50]

Hmmmmm........Glad I found this thread.....I was having the same issue......Mine started to dissolve abt a 6 weeks after I got it. Yet the Quad coil tank no problems with the same juice. I make my own juice 70% VG and 30% Pg using Capella Creamy Custard. I took it back to my vendor he replaced the seals.... 2 weeks later it was doing the same.....I sent the tank back to the supplier the tank only came with a 30 day warranty. The supplier replied that my juice was doing it! Bull.....t! I trased the tank.

Now using the Vapestone Meganus no prolemo.....same juice mix.

Acer 50