What a crazy two years it's been

[bman1977]

If this gets ruined for me because someone feels the need to fill a room with vapor and vape at 150 watts i will be pretty .......

 

[Illuminatu]

If this gets ruined for me because someone feels the need to fill a room with vapor and vape at 150 watts i will be pretty .......

Lol sorry buddy, but the FDA has been trying to shut vaping down since 2008. The cloud chasers have nothing to do with that, since they were not around in 2008.

 

[TyPie]

Did your experience as a smoker not teach you that we no longer live in the land of the free? That's just a slogan in a song at this point. I pay $2300/month rent and I can no longer smoke in my own enclosed apartment. If a particular douche bag doesn't quit fogging up the elevators and common areas I probably won't be allowed to vape here either. The shops now cater to the hobbyists. There is more money in RDA's than there are starter kits. It seems that shops don't want to educate people anymore. They just want to push limits. All though it is too late, everyone should remember that smoking was not banned everywhere for health reasons. That was a convenient loophole found later, and actually completely untrue in regards to second hand smoke. Smoking was banned because it annoyed people. Don't you think blowing massive plumes of smoke looking vapor that smells like a kid's cereal is annoying to anyone that doesn't do the same. Vaping is going to go down the same road as cigarettes. The bans have already started. The only flavor a cigarette is allowed to have is menthol, and they have to continuously fight for that. They had to stop advertising because they used a cartoon character in their ads.

You have some very good points. The main one being, I think, that to non-vapers and non-smokers, perception is reality (an old saying that is used a lot in sales training, for example. If a potential buyer of your goods or services perceives your good or service as great or not-so-great. you have a sale or a no-sale.) A non-vaper / non-smoker wandering into some of the vape shops described by the OP would likely create a certain " first impression", lets say, or a "perception". That perception might be something like a smoking den, a cigar den (which is far WORSE, imo), a frat house, or a drug den, God forbid.

I was in a B & M the other day, where I had to wave my arms to clear the vapor so I could see where I was going (which is really not TOO much of an exaggeration!).
I just laughed, made exaggerated waving motions like I was clearing the air, struck up some conversations as to what gear the group of young 20-somethings were using, juices, etc. They wer ALL chasing clouds, and sporting very expensive, high-powered mods. Turns out they were very well-spoken and very enthusiastic. (They laughed back at me, btw. Heh,heh.....). They, as well as the shop keeper asked me what I use, what flavors I tend to like and made a lot of good recommendations. The main focus of their attention, though, was the shop-keeper helping them with rebuilding coils. I also worry about the trend toward more power, more vapor, and more expensive gear in general. Yet I know that a wide variety of equipment and supplies will likely be available somewhere, online, if not in the closest B & M's.

All is good-----the crowd in there could have been smoking cigarettes, or other substances, although I fully agree that the initial perception CAN very realistically create extremely negative impressions to the un-initiated. (I would LOVE to see the faces of some of the more vocal ANTZIES should they wander into one of these and the resulting tirades.....heheheh.)

I have no idea how to combat this, other than through a constant flow of good science, good information, and good education.

 

[bman1977]

Lol sorry buddy, but the FDA has been trying to shut vaping down since 2008. The cloud chasers have nothing to do with that, since they were not around in 2008.

I try and blame them for everything including war and famine.

 

[Illuminatu]

I try and blame them for everything including war and famine.

attaboy, that's the attitude! I would do the same

 

[LMS62]

I have been vaping now for roughly 3 years....and yes, many things have changed during that time. With that being said, how dare other vapers now vape differently than I do. How dare they treat vaping like a hobby, when I don't. What audacity they must have to like blowing more vapor than me, or enjoy much higher wattages than I do.

I started vaping to quit cigarettes, so by God, they should be vaping for the same reasons I am.

I'm not being judgmental, but anyone who doesn't vape like I do, and for the same reasons, I shall simply refer to them as douche bags.

 

[Ravensfan]

Can I play too,

Ok, here we go and please do keep in mind that this is an opinion as so many have them.

OP,
I can relate to what your saying but then again not everyone is as bad as you say. Yes you'll have your extreme hobbyists in anything, from cars to guns to dogs..ect but as I've mentioned before these are a niche group and should be treated as such, you don't need to associate with them at all if you don't wish to as I myself avoid certain niche groups. I fully understand that the demographics of the shop ownership and attendance has changed but this was going to happen no matter what, the only thing that we can hope for is that education of new vapors is still being held to the quality that it once was. I'm not fully sure that it is but I figure if the shop owners won't fill that title then I'll step in and help out. Remember that you are still a steward for the ecig community and with your experience you've much to share.
As for the FDA enforcing regulation on the ecig market that will happen regardless, I will admit that the names that have come out lately and the artwork is not helping the cause here. Yes you are correct that the FDA is gathering information to sway the general publics opinion to their side, they don't have to look very far in truth with folks pushing the limitations of batteries, names of liquids and artwork as of lately. Remember that though it may not seem like a huge deal any negative press is just that and yes these shop owners and hobbyists need to know this. Its fine if you want to but either keep it professional and to those who are in to it or keep it in your own house. I'm stocked for when the hammer falls but that's just me, just saying.

Everyone else,
Yes, what was said may hit home for some of you and maybe force a look in the mirror but here is what stepping outside and looking in produces. It may be an opinion but its one that is invaluable and has a lesson behind it, I've tried to say "Hey folks, it looks bad to be doing this stuff" but it fell upon deaf ears and walled in minds. So here you've heard it, and you do realize that if one person who is a part of the community thinks like this what are non-smokers thinking, what is the FDA seeing from us. To believe that they aren't keeping tabs on social media, local business and meet up's is just being ignorant at the best. I'm not saying that at every place there is someone but at a good number of places there has been or is someone that is keeping tabs. I'm also sure that phone calls are being made by the general public of the antics that go on in some of these places, no the FDA isn't going to publically announce it yet. They will when it comes to hearing day and they take out that big book o complaints and findings, it will come out and then the hammer will drop.

I'm not saying to hide away in a dark place, I'm saying that to lead by example, be the person you would like to meet yourself and treat everyone with the utmost respect. Try to not only advise safety in ecigs but also live it while your out and facing the public or if you can't/don't want to then say nothing at'll about your own personal set-up (Cloud Competitions are saying what you've got in a big, big and highly visible way). Remember that these future generations are the ones that will continue to protect the right to vape, this fight isn't just one that will be done and over with but it will continue from now until the end of days, what we lay now is the brick work for future generations of vapers to come. Yes is a big responsibility and I'm sorry to tell you that you have it upon your shoulders but you do. I'm not saying to not do what you love, I'm saying to do it in an informative, kind and safe way and offer others a guiding lite to follow that you will be proud of.

Just my thoughts.

This is incredibly well written. I hate to sound judgmental. I know that's exactly what I am doing, but in a short two years I have seen a drastic change, and I don't think it's good. I'm a libertarian. I believe in letting people do what they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone else, but I'm intelligent enough to know that we just don't live in that kind of society anymore. I used to drive hours to check out a B&M. I used to go to vape meets. I am still a member of all of those Facebook groups. The demographics have changed tremendously. I might be generous by saying college kids. It's basically teenagers. I hate to say it, but I also have to question just how healthy some of this extreme vaping is. When I take a hit on something and cough worse than I did when I smoked my first cigarette at 14 I have to question how healthy it is. The bottom line is the damage is done. The hammer will fall. If I can watch videos of twenty teenagers doing cloud tricks on Facebook everyday, so can anyone who is in a position to start fear tactics and make laws.

 

[TyPie]

..................The demographics have changed tremendously. I might be generous by saying college kids. It's basically teenagers. I hate to say it, but I also have to question just how healthy some of this extreme vaping is. When I take a hit on something and cough worse than I did when I smoked my first cigarette at 14 I have to question how healthy it is. The bottom line is the damage is done. The hammer will fall. If I can watch videos of twenty teenagers doing cloud tricks on Facebook everyday, so can anyone who is in a position to start fear tactics and make laws.

The demographics appear to be changing quickly to the younger side, though I'm not sure how prevalent the 'extreme vaping' is. Sure appears to be headed that way for some. The impression / perception that extreme vaping can create can be worrisome, when it comes to regulation. No matter what past time, sport, hobby, activity, or vice, for that matter, it seems there will always be some willing to go to the extreme.

 

[bman1977]

I have been vaping now for roughly 3 years....and yes, many things have changed during that time. With that being said, how dare other vapers now vape differently than I do. How dare they treat vaping like a hobby, when I don't. What audacity they must have to like blowing more vapor than me, or enjoy much higher wattages than I do.

I started vaping to quit cigarettes, so by God, they should be vaping for the same reasons I am.

I'm not being judgmental, but anyone who doesn't vape like I do, and for the same reasons, I shall simply refer to them as douche bags.

The only thing that our lungs are meant to breathe is oxygen. Why would anyone breathe a foreign substance into their lungs as a hobby? I hate the fact that im addicted to nicotine and would drop it in a second if I wasn't such a weak willed worm. Everyone glosses vaping over but addiction is addiction.

 

[DC2]

Um, yeah I do think they care about small business--or at least they care about appearing to care, which can still be beneficial. A big mistake I think nearly everyone concerned makes is forgetting that all those "frat boys winding coils" would probably be smoking/chewing tobacco, or worse, in absence of vaping.

You probably missed my post above yours, since you were probably writing yours while I was writing mine.

I think that a very high percentage of the folks the OP is talking about probably never smoked and may never use tobacco.
There is a reason that zero nicotine sales are growing by leaps and bounds.

 

[navigator2011]

Lol sorry buddy, but the FDA has been trying to shut vaping down since 2008. The cloud chasers have nothing to do with that, since they were not around in 2008.

Yes, and how many times have they been sent back to drawing board to come up with more reasonable proposed regulations? I think vapers forget that the FDA does not rule in a vacuum, rather there is a process of check & balances. That process is continuing right now, too. I recently read an article about the arguing going on in the previous Congress, and now in the new one. Generally, the Dems want to limit the vape industry to 2007, whereas the Repubs want to limit everything to the time of enactment of legislation. I feel more positive now than a year ago.

 

[SHOCK COLLAR]

only been in one shop and it was empty but I can totally picture it the way the OP described and I cant stop laughing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaHf-o4Rp64
they've got wings yo!

 

[LMS62]

The only thing that our lungs are meant to breathe is oxygen. Why would anyone breathe a foreign substance into their lungs as a hobby? I hate the fact that im addicted to nicotine and would drop it in a second if I wasn't such a weak willed worm. Everyone glosses vaping over but addiction is addiction.

I don't believe breathing in a foreign substance is the hobby portion of it for many "hobbyists". The hobby portion is collecting different mods, collecting different tanks, rebuilding, making their own e-juice, etc.

Even though there are many things people do as hobbies that I may not understand or have any interest in, that sure as hell doesn't mean I am going to judge them for it.

 

[bman1977]

I don't believe breathing in a foreign substance is the hobby portion of it for many "hobbyists". The hobby portion is collecting different mods, collecting different tanks, rebuilding, making their own e-juice, etc.

Even though there are many things people do as hobbies that I may not understand or have any interest in, that sure as hell doesn't mean I am going to judge them for it.

I guess I get that part. Whatever happened to knitting or stamp collecting?

 

[zoiDman]

... but the guy that just wants to quit smoking cigarettes is going to be relegated to whatever big tobacco offers. Thanks.

This is Really the Sad thing to me.

Because at the End of the Day, the MOST Important thing about e-Cigarettes is it is a Viable, Proven Way for Someone to Reduce their Harm and Improver their Health by Quitting Smoking.

 

[navigator2011]

You probably missed my post above yours, since you were probably writing yours while I was writing mine.

I think that a very high percentage of the folks the OP is talking about probably never smoked and may never use tobacco.
There is a reason that zero nicotine sales are growing by leaps and bounds.

Sure, I get that. I imagine that it's compelling because vaping offers them the chance to vape without the down side of addiction and health effects. I met a 19-year old guy in a vape shop that was dripping, but mentioned that he had never smoked. When I asked them why start at all, he said all of his friends had picked up tobacco smoking and were pressuring him to be part of the team, so to speak. He chose vaping to avoid smoking, and then he went on to convert all of his friends to vaping instead of smoking. My daughter's boyfriend vapes because it saved him from a 2-year smoking addiction. Turns out, my daughter tried vaping, but found it didn't get her addicted. I remember smoking just a few cigarettes back in the day, and I have had a boot on my neck ever since. So, I maintain my position that if the FDA and the ANTZ think getting rid of vaping will reduce cigarette smoking, they couldn't possibly be more wrong.

At any rate, the interesting thing about freedom is that it only survives when everyone is willing to accept everyone else's freedom. Just my 2 cents, anyways.

 

[LMS62]

I guess I get that part. Whatever happened to knitting or stamp collecting?

Hahaha....sure would be cheaper!

 

[Illuminatu]

Yes, and how many times have they been sent back to drawing board to come up with more reasonable proposed regulations? I think vapers forget that the FDA does not rule in a vacuum, rather there is a process of check & balances. That process is continuing right now, too. I recently read an article about the arguing going on in the previous Congress, and now in the new one. Generally, the Dems want to limit the vape industry to 2007, whereas the Repubs want to limit everything to the time of enactment of legislation. I feel more positive now than a year ago.

Lucky for you American fellows, both the House and Congress belong to the Republicans!

 

[Ravensfan]

I don't believe breathing in a foreign substance is the hobby portion of it for many "hobbyists". The hobby portion is collecting different mods, collecting different tanks, rebuilding, making their own e-juice, etc.

Even though there are many things people do as hobbies that I may not understand or have any interest in, that sure as hell doesn't mean I am going to judge them for it.

You don't think the hobbyists are judging? That's my whole point. You can be a hobbyists without having to fill the Astrodome with fog. Read a ProVari thread on this forum. They used to catch flack because they were thought to be overpriced by some. Now it is because they are underpowered with ancient technology. In most vape groups you better not even talk about vaping under 50 watts. They are really the one's that changed the landscape here. I can't imagine how intimidating it must be for a new vapor that just wants to get off cigarettes to walk into a shop these days. They're going to be treated like an idiot because they don't understand ohms law.

 

[navigator2011]

Lucky for you American fellows, both the House and Congress belong to the Republicans!

Well, we'll see.