What did Jesus have to say about the rapture?

[HyOnLyph]

Quoted From the article... "Really? Actually Christians have only believed this for about 140 years." I don't really want to get into an argument about the rapture. I think there are scriptures that allow us to contemplate pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib possibilities. And to adamantly stand on one position is to ignore the scriptures that support the other options. BUT.... no matter what you believe, that quote is a typical ad-hominem fallacy. To argue that something is not true because no one has believed it before is bad logic. That dog don't hunt. I don't mind listening to someone who is logical and can really prove a point but to tell me something isn't true because someone else didn't believe it, is absurd. Worse yet, to try to convince me that something else is true because someone else didn't believe in the opposing theology is even more absurd.

I will admit... that as soon as I read the opening few statements, I stopped. I just can't listen to someone who's premise is false from the get-go.

(dang... I didn't come here to do this.... and yet here I am. Oh well. I guess if your gonna jump in, it might as well be with both feet.)
Blessings

 

[Pav]

Good job Hex. Thanks for the link. Gonna give it a listen when I have a chance.

 

[HyOnLyph]

The word rapture does not appear in the bible once.

The word God doesn't appear in the Bible either.. in the original text. What does that have to do with anything. Rapture is an English word, taken from a Latin word, used to describe an event in scripture. It cannot be argued that the event doesn't happen just because the word isn't in the Bible. Illogical.

 

[Pav]

The word God doesn't appear in the Bible either.. in the original text.

Wrong. Just search it here. It comes up again and again.

BibleGateway - Quick search: god

Search Rapture and you get this.

Sorry. No results found for "rapture" in Keyword Search.

 

[StarsAndBars]

Let me get this straight.... Your saying the Bible has only been around for 140 years? You must be saying that because the passages about the rapture have been there all along.

On the subject of being a Christian, and not attending Church. Wish you were here, you would be more than welcome at ours.

 

[Pav]

The American Evangelical idea of the rapture is pretty recent. The majority of Christianity does not believe this myth made up by Darby. More specifically pre-tribulation rapture.

In opposition to such a view, the Orthodox Church has never promoted the rapture as it is presently stated. In fact, the 2000-year history of the unbroken Church does not contain any reference to such an event. Although, the dating of the rapture is argued by its supporters to predate the 1800’s, they have been extremely hard pressed to prove their case. Nevertheless, it is important that Orthodox Christians clearly understand their own faith so that they might not be carried away by such myths as the rapture.

St. Catherine Greek Orthodox Church

The notion of a rapture in which Christ comes unseen to take believers away secretly, and only later comes back again for everyone else publicly—this whole teaching is quite novel. It was almost unheard of until John Nelson Darby formulated it in the 1800s as part of a new approach to the Bible, sometimes called “dispensationalism”.

As already stated, most Christians, Orthodox, Roman Catholics and Protestants do not believe in the Rapture. In fact, one Protestant pastor, John L. Bray, summarized magnificently what we Orthodox and most other Christians believe about the Rapture when he wrote these remarkable words,

Though many believe and teach this “Pre-Tribulation Rapture” theory, they erroneously do so, because neither Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, nor any of the other writers of the Bible taught this. Nor did the early church fathers, nor any others for many hundreds of years…. Did you know that NONE of this was ever taught prior to 1812, and that all forms of Pre-Tribulation Rapture teaching were developed since that date? …. If I were to preach something, or believe something, supposedly from the Bible, but cannot find that ANYONE ELSE before 1812 ever believed it or taught it, I would seriously question that it is based on the Bible.

http://www.light-n-life.com/newsletters/09-12-2005.htm

 

[Southern Gent]

Let me get this straight.... Your saying the Bible has only been around for 140 years? You must be saying that because the passages about the rapture have been there all along.

On the subject of being a Christian, and not attending Church. Wish you were here, you would be more than welcome at ours.

No he is talking about "isms". There are many different views concerning the end of time. Amillennial, Bimillennial, Preterist, Bimillenial preterist...all different forms in the world of religion concerning the end time. Theologically speaking, none matter as to salvation. They simply become talking points and often time used as dividing lines of "church" doctrine. Be ready and none of it matters no matter who is right or wrong as to how it goes down.

 

[LisaLisa]

The American Evangelical idea of the rapture is pretty recent. The majority of Christianity does not believe this myth made up by Darby. More specifically pre-tribulation rapture.

Actually, the majority of Christians, who actually study the bible, do believe in the rapture (to be caught up in the air with the Lors), it's one of the main teachings of the christian faith. The only thing that they dispute is when it's going to happen. The Greek Orthodox church is not the majority of Christians. It's just one sect of Christianity.

 

[LisaLisa]

So PAV, are you a believer now, or are you studying the bible?

 

[angelique510]

On a link in an article posted in another thread here, I found a very good article about the rapture. Proofs for the pretribulation rapture It gived Biblical backing for the belief in a pre-trib rapture.

~A

 

[HyOnLyph]

Wrong. Just search it here. It comes up again and again.

BibleGateway - Quick search: god

Search Rapture and you get this.

Sorry. I guess you didn't get my point. You searched the English Translation. The point was that God is an English word for the original Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic words used in the original text. Rapture is very much the same. While the word "rapture" isn't in the English translation of the Bible, The word is in the latin translation and the concept is in the English translation. The word rapture is simply an English word to describe the event of being "caught up". If you search "caught up" you should be able to find it. depending on the translation you are searching.

The same source you referred to yeilds this....
1 Thessalonians 4:17
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 4 (Whole Chapter)

 

[HyOnLyph]

On the subject of being a Christian, and not attending Church. Wish you were here, you would be more than welcome at ours.

On the subject of coming to your church.... do we all get units like that in your avatar? If so, I'm there.

 

[Vidi]

Hexkrak,

thanks for posting this. I think "the rapture" is a perfect example of how our beliefs have "evolved" from the time of Christ into something else entirely. That being said, I find the story of Abraham comforting when thinking of the Tribulation. In my view, the story of Abraham IS the story of our relationship to God. As I posted in another thread, God spoke with Abraham about Sodom

And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy [it] for ten's sake.

It is this promise to Abraham that tells me the Tribulation is no where near this time, that we are NOT living in the End Times. There are far too many Righteous left on the Earth.

There are far too many self righteous as well.

 

[cheymat]

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;
2Pe 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked
2Pe 2:8 (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard);
2Pe 2:9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,
2Pe 2:10 and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones,
2Pe 2:11 whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. (English Standard Version)

This is ONE of the many reasons I believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture.

 

[cheymat]

The word rapture does not appear in the bible once.

You are right it doesnt. The word rapture means to be "caught up", or "snatch away".

1Th 4:14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The greek word means for caught up is "harpazo"

In latin it is Rapiemur and rapturo which is where we get the english word for rapture. It all mean to be "caught up" or to "snatch away"

1Th 4:14 si enim credimus quod Iesus mortuus est et resurrexit ita et Deus eos qui dormierunt per Iesum adducet cum eo
1Th 4:15 hoc enim vobis dicimus in verbo Domini quia nos qui vivimus qui residui sumus in adventum Domini non praeveniemus eos qui dormierunt
1Th 4:16 quoniam ipse Dominus in iussu et in voce archangeli et in tuba Dei descendet de caelo et mortui qui in Christo sunt resurgent primi
1Th 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus
1Th 4:18 itaque consolamini invicem in verbis istis (Latin Vulgate)

 

[HyOnLyph]

Those are awesome scriptures on the subject. From what I've read, there is Biblical evidence that sometimes God deliver's his people OUT OF the tribulations and sometimes He delivers them THROUGH the tribulations. In a very real sense Noah was not delivered from the flood... he was delivered through it. Just as the Jews were delivered through the desert by God's protection and provision.

While scripture explains that we will be persecuted for our faith in Christ, In 1 Thes 5:9 it says that we (believers) are not appointed to experience God's wrath. In Revelations, God's wrath begins at the end of the first 3.5 year segment of the 7 yr tribulation period.

I'm not making an adamant statement here... but do you think it's possible that mid-trib rapture is feasible?
In any case, I believe we will be delivered .... From it, through it, under it.... or be given the strength to endure it. It's all about God's faithfulness.

G.

Regarding the Rapture.... I hope for Pre and prepare for Post. ;o) I don't think either doctrine is a measure of our faith in Christ.

 

[cheymat]

Those are awesome scriptures on the subject. From what I've read, there is Biblical evidence that sometimes God deliver's his people OUT OF the tribulations and sometimes He delivers them THROUGH the tribulations. In a very real sense Noah was not delivered from the flood... he was delivered through it. Just as the Jews were delivered through the desert by God's protection and provision.

While scripture explains that we will be persecuted for our faith in Christ, In 1 Thes 5:9 it says that we (believers) are not appointed to experience God's wrath. In Revelations, God's wrath begins at the end of the first 3.5 year segment of the 7 yr tribulation period.
I'm not making an adamant statement here... but do you think it's possible that mid-trib rapture is feasible?
In any case, I believe we will be delivered .... From it, through it, under it.... or be given the strength to endure it. It's all about God's faithfulness.

G.

Regarding the Rapture.... I hope for Pre and prepare for Post. ;o) I don't think either doctrine is a measure of our faith in Christ.

I do not think the Rapture is mid-trib. No we are not appointed to God's Wrath. In the Book of Rev. There is a verse that is often VERY over looked. It is Rev 6:16. It says

16 calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

Look at the bold part Wrath of the Lamb. Jesus is the only one worthy to open the first 7 seals which is the start of the Trib. If Jesus is God (and we know he is) then, are we not also spared from his wrath as well? The true church is the Bride of Christ, not a building as some may think. It has often been said and i agree with this...Jesus is not a wife beater.

But you are correct in the fact that believing in the rapture weather pre, mid, post, or not at all isnt a salvation issue. All that matters is that we believe that he is Lord, and He alone can save us.

 

[HyOnLyph]

I do not think the Rapture is mid-trib. No we are not appointed to God's Wrath. In the Book of Rev. There is a verse that is often VERY over looked. It is Rev 6:16. It says

16 calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

Look at the bold part Wrath of the Lamb. Jesus is the only one worthy to open the first 7 seals which is the start of the Trib. If Jesus is God (and we know he is) then, are we not also spared from his wrath as well? The true church is the Bride of Christ, not a building as some may think. It has often been said and i agree with this...Jesus is not a wife beater.

But you are correct in the fact that believing in the rapture weather pre, mid, post, or not at all isnt a salvation issue. All that matters is that we believe that he is Lord, and He alone can save us.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I didn't figure you "believed" in mid trib..... just wondering if you thought it was possible. I really don't have a stand either way. I like your attitude tho.... (probably because it agrees with mine. hehehe)
Blessings, G.

 

[cheymat]

Awesome! LOL! It is sometimes so hard for us to wrap our heads around the concept of the Rapture. I mean come on one second you're washing dishes and the next you are standing in front of Jesus! But God can do all things and His ways are not ours. I just trust in Him. Its all we can do.

 

[5cardstud]

Awesome! LOL! It is sometimes so hard for us to wrap our heads around the concept of the Rapture. I mean come on one second you're washing dishes and the next you are standing in front of Jesus! But God can do all things and His ways are not ours. I just trust in Him. Its all we can do.

Very well put. Amen