What is in the smoke from a dry coil?

[GoodNews!]

Hey guys, as all you rebuildy-ers should know, when you fire a new coil with no wick and no juice, as you do when microcoiling, it smokes for awhile and smells like a burning tire. If any of you have ever accidentally vaped this smoke by some type mind stutter (as I have done), you'll also know it tastes just like a burning tire.

What is actually in this smoke?

See, there's some newbies that seem to think I'm pulling this out of my ...., and as anyone experienced with RDA'ing would know, this effect is real.

And as a bonus question, if you were to vape without pre-firing or torching your coil, and then after say, a day, your tank runs dry, and suddely your coil reaches a temperature near what it is when fire drying, wouldn't it make sense that the coil would begin to "smoke" like this (since it has not went through this stage previously) and that I would taste it, and explain why, since I have, that the tastes are exactly the same?

This is not the same issue as my "gunk" problem, but since gunk leads to bad wicking, and since bad wicking and a gunky taste eventaully leads to this "metallic" taste for me, I assume I am correct.

Care to chime in?

 

[sunnata]

seems to me like a proper dry burn gets rid of any and all possible traces of smoke. leads me to believe that they are produced from residues on the wires (machine oils, juice, etc)

 

[GoodNews!]

If you do dry burns on a pre-wicked silica coil though, these residues can get latched onto the silica, and it's why silica will permenently taste bad to anyone who accidentally dry fires before loading the juice, in a cheap tank.

At least, that's always been my result, as I'm highly sensitive to these particles and feed-off metallic flavors. I'd assume someone here has tasted it. I can even smell it in the air after I vape, if I'm tasting it, same as I smell it on a microcoil.

I smell and taste it it as my tank is running dry too, on cheap devices that I can't pre-fire to oxidize. Seems that for me, the oxidation is happening only after my wick is gunking up, causing a combo flavor of gunk and metal. Which is exactly what I was tasting on old, gunked heads at the vapor store when they were set to 4.8v's, the power which would cause those heads, if dry, to start oxidizing.... imo.

If all this is true, it's pretty much a health effect that I believe may have caused ligitimate e-cig bans in various countries, countries that did claim to find metal and oils in their vapes.

If it is true, it's a cause for all e-cig companies to simply pre-fire their coils, or torch them. Cisco does, and I think it's why I loved their coils.

 

[WattWick]

Is it really necessary to call everyone who disagree with you a newbie? Please don't troll.

Clean your gear prior to use. There should be no smoke, only vaporized e-liquid.

 

[sunnata]

not speaking for others, but one of the reasons that made me switch to rba's was the ability to control such scenarios. that way I can pre-torch my wire and not worry about such problems. YMMV

 

[GoodNews!]

Is it really necessary to call everyone who disagree with you a newbie? Please don't troll.

Clean your gear prior to use. There should be no smoke, only vaporized e-liquid.

They called me a newbie first

And ya'll know I really just ain't. The rather experienced users here actually always seem to know what I'm talking about.

 

[GoodNews!]

C'mon, I know someone wants to reply to this thread. What's wrong? Scared I finally pinpointed what's the "issue" for my vaping devices? Scared we might actually have a health effect on our hands with Chinese non-torched wire?

My theories and experiences are getting so extra-ordinarily the same as with RDA'er experiences that the obvious is starting to be very obvious.

All I need is a simple "yes" or "no" that a non-pre-torched coil, once vaped and then dried burned again, can reach a temperature high enough to release these "oils" that would have burnt off if pre-fired, along with burning off the already formed liquid gunk.

An answer to if that if that "oil" can stay on the coil while liquid is being vaped and gunk forms, and doesn't burn off one eventually performs a dry burn, along with the gunk present.

If yes, then I've revolutionized both the health concerns and taste issue points with low-end vaping, with months of being ridiculed for it. If no, it's back to the drawing board.

But this time, I'm ever so sure I am correct.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Stands to reason that if a coil gets hot enough to vaporize e liquid, then it gets hot enough to burn off any contaminants on the coil within the first few puffs...the ones you tend to enjoy. I think it's more plausible that you actually enjoy vaping machine oil and contaminants more than most. New devices tend to break in for me. Bad at first, then they get consistently better. With you, they seem to break down...great at first, then socks. You should just get a bottle of 12 mg machine oil with metal ions and silica dust...vape that and you'll be in heaven.
Numerous tests have been performed by many different agencies trying to prove vaping is dangerous. They haven't been able to do it. People far more capable than you have analyzed the vapor on the inhale, on the exhale, straight from the coil...you name it, they tested it. They just can't find a real reason to shut us down. So, they're still hanging their hat on "it looks like smoking". These are folks that actually have business testing and experimenting. It takes a little more than a paranoid schizophrenic with bad luck and zero common sense to prove vaping is dangerous. It takes machines and equipment and labs and brains and money...
Vaping isn't for everybody...it's for people who can successfully figure it out and actually want to quit smoking. You're 0 for 2.

 

[GoodNews!]

Nah, these oils wouldn't burn off at the temperatures the "first few puffs" have, unless your first few puffs are quite dry. Mine are quite wet until the tank runs drier, as I'm a wicking fanatic, and that's when I taste it more than usual, like on the new iClear 30, which was giving me a super wet hit through the first tank, and drier after that, which is when I first noticed a gunky taste, then a metallic taste.

Again, I think it's mostly that MOST people, who aren't wicking fanatics like me, DO burn this gunk off the first few vapes. I may have entirely "missed" this step with overly precautious methods. No one ever told me NOT to vape in a complex way. People spouting off with Protank wicking problems and mess. The fact that I listened to that stuff may have prevented the crap from properly burning off, and instead, lingering throughout the vape!

To prove that to myself, I started vaping on the iClear 30 without tilting, and for about 4 or 5 puffs, the mechanical taste persisted extremely. Then, it started going away! It seems that the junk never properly burned off, and THAT has been my entire issue! This may actually solve something now!

But I still don't want to vape oils. That ain't my bag of tea leaves. Being a supertester, if there's one small bit of oil on that coil, or etched onto the silica, I will taste it! It's why I did not with Cisco, they pre-torch their coils.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Nah, these oils wouldn't burn off at the temperatures the "first few puffs" have, unless your first few puffs are quite dry.


can you back that up, please?

 

[WattWick]

Want torched wire? Torch it. Want clean wicks? Clean them.

 

[Rule62]

My suggestion would be, if you're concerned about the purity of what you vape, as many of us are, use only rebuildable devices, whether they be RBAs or RDAs. Forget about using pre wicked and pre coiled Chinese CE2s, CE3s, CE4s, etc.
Make your own e-liquids. Some pre made liquids contain oils, among other things, which aren't good to vape.

 

[GoodNews!]

Sure, I can back it up:

Build a coil. Pre-fire it. The smoke only appears when dry. You'll smell it. If you dare vape it, you'll taste it.
Build another coil. Don't pre-fire it. Put juice on it. Vape it. You won't taste the machine oil or "harsh taste" until it runs dry after a few puffs.

You can also prove it if you vape a coil that has no wick, putting juice on it for a drop, without pre-torching or pre-firing. The "harsh" taste you get after the 1 puff? That's machine oil. That isn't just "hot air". It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Yet, a pre-torched coil won't be as harsh no matter what. Already proved that with the Cisco, vaping it drier.

^_^

Also, Kanthal leaves all sort of oil on the fingers, for those who don't look at their fingers after building. Garuntee someone will argue next that Kanthal has nothing on it.

 

[Jjshbetz11]

It's deff machining oil and other goodies. Reason you don't taste it when there is juice on the coil is the juice keeps the coils temps down.

 

[TheJakeBailey]

C'mon, I know someone wants to reply to this thread. What's wrong? Scared I finally pinpointed what's the "issue" for my vaping devices? Scared we might actually have a health effect on our hands with Chinese non-torched wire?

I'm sure that MANY want to reply, but with the threat of vacations and dwindling sanity, I'm sure that many are choosing not to. But every sub forum I go into, there you are. The answer has been given many times. If you want to control every aspect of your vape, you can rebuild your atomizers however you wish, and diy your liquid. Problems solved. Enjoy your revolution.

 

[Miata GT]

If you do dry burns on a pre-wicked silica coil though, these residues can get latched onto the silica, and it's why silica will permenently taste bad to anyone who accidentally dry fires before loading the juice, in a cheap tank.

As a matter of course I soak any new devices such as clearomizers, etc. in vodka then dry fire them to clean as much of the manufacturing process as possible before using them. The first time I experienced what you're talking about was with my first prewound RDA (Scar). Ugh, what a taste! A little soak, rinse, and dry fire cleared it all up for me.

 

[GoodNews!]

it's deff machining oil and other goodies. Reason you don't taste it when there is juice on the coil is the juice keeps the coils temps down.

thank you!!!!

 

[minimalsaint]

Yes, Kanthal usually has some sort of machine oil on it from production.
Yes, the wire should be torched prior to wrapping.
Yes, cheap silica has a nasty taste if dry burned.
Yes, china uses questionable materials.
No, I have never seen any "smoke" from one of my builds.
No, my wire has not ruined any of my builds due to this phenomenon you describe.

Source:
I build coils a lot.

 

[Asbestos4004]

You seem to like to say "doesn't take a rocket scientist" a lot. It seems you're insinuating that you're a lot smarter than most. Here's the funny thing...you're the one who can't figure out how to vape after 4 years. Nothing but fail after fail after fail. You can't even seem to figure out how to read the ohm checker on a device thats reading the ohms for you...the dual coil thing really throws you off , doesn't it? It's easy, if your ohm checker says 2.0...then the device you attached has a 2.0 coil in it or 2 - 4 ohm coils in it...either way, the ohm checker will say 2.0 for a 2 ohm attachment. Doesn't take a rocket scientist.

If you're affected by the oils and contaminants in wire or silica, you should learn to rebuild and torch your wire and silica. Doesn't tale a rocket scientist. Most people torch the wire to remove the springyness in order to keep the coils tight. A side benefit is the oils and contaminants from the machining process OR OUR OWN FINGERS gets burned off. Why do I build all of my own coils? Because they perform better. Doesn't take a Rocket Scientist.

I used clearos for about 2 months when I started vaping. They worked fine. CE 4's, then Vivi Novas, then Protanks....I started rebuilding because I wanted something better. Buying clearos is a gamble...they work or they don't. When they work, they don't work as well as a good rebuildable. I rebuild because I want the best vape I can get. It's easy...doesn't take a rocket scientist. I guess I could've spent 4 years and $700 on clearos that probably won't really work well...then come into a forum and complain and whine about it. I just chose to learn to rebuild.
You bought all that kanthal and a couple RBA's right? Take your cigarette lighter and heat up a 6" length of .28 ga kanthal until it glows red....just move the lighter down the wire as it glows. This will remove the springiness and burn off the contaminants. Then wrap 12 wraps around a thicker gauge syringe needle. Keep the wraps tight. Slap it in your rba and check the ohms. Fire it in short bursts...gradually getting longer. When it glows red, squeeze it together. You want the coils touching each other. Do this step about 3 or 4 times. Wick it with a little roll of cotton. Not too tight. Juice it up real good and fire it. When it starts producing vapor, gently blow on it. Do this a few times and any foul tastes from the cotton will go away. Juice it all through that process. Line the air hole in the cap to be right in front of the coil, drip a few drops and vape. Clean, torched and built with your own 2 hands. No Chinese impurities. You're in charge. Doesn't take a Rocket Scientist. Do it along with an instructional video. Rip Trippers has some very good ones. I copied one of his yesterday...
Doesn't take a Rocket Scientist. Do this and you'll never go back to clearos. 4 years is enough time wasted on clearos. After 4 years, you're ready for the next step. Don't be afraid of it, just be safe.

 

[GoodNews!]

Yes, Kanthal usually has some sort of machine oil on it from production.
Yes, the wire should be torched prior to wrapping.
Yes, cheap silica has a nasty taste if dry burned.
Yes, china uses questionable materials.
No, I have never seen any "smoke" from one of my builds.
No, my wire has not ruined any of my builds due to this phenomenon you describe.

Source:
I build coils a lot.

You must be getting some really clean wire then. Even RIP experiences this "smoke" all the time. It's in all of his videos.

And @ Asbestos, yeah, you're actually right on that post. That's like one of the first post I've seen on ECF where you know what you're talking about.

But when it comes down to theories like the rate that Kanthal oil burns off with certain ohm, voltage, wetness, and juice factors applied? Or if silica can indeed actually produce silica crystals in our vape with certain draw strengths, heat applications, and pressurized factors? Even the brilliant silica test you did at your job may not have involved all factors. There's still other types of tests people have done that show signs of opposing proof. I'm getting these oily results day in and day out on pre-wound coils. You may not be. I think both sides of the story have conditions where they prove correct.

I'm not a scientist, but my conclusions are true to the results I get. Your results are true to the results you get. Me and you probably have %100 different vaping styles, and encounter problems unique to those ranges. You probably build one heck of a coil and worry about none of this. You may also not be as sensitive to these things as I am. You probably don't think PG tastes like soap. I seem to, unless there's at least a %30 VG additive in it (or again, I could attach my juice bottle theory, as it gave surprising test results as well... and where that is, you probably store your PG in glass bottles, never encountering the pattern enough to question it.)

All this is has always been theories, but it's all backed up by experiences that users get across the board and that, in actuality, have fixed using my theories. The truth is, wether anyone likes it or not, the solutions I am pointing to are things that RDA'ers do every single day. The fact that they don't ever really think about it may explain why no one connects the dots in the way I do. Let's face it, I'm way too sensitive for low-end vaping. I'm way too curious to "let things be". I test some very strange things that others do not. While I propose weird stuff, it rarely seems an instance that I get proved "plain wrong". I don't post sciencey mess any better than anyone else, but my results PERSIST and seem to always prove themselves correct for the factors at hand.

When concerning home-made science, when you find an conclusive pattern that behaves a certain way %100 of the time across the board for that particular set of factors, then that's what old-fashioned, good science is. It's not modern science, but it makes for one heck of a person who, beyond factual IQ, indeed showcases signs of an extraordinarily high "common sense" IQ. Which is what my IQ test proved. I'm horrible at math. I'm horrible at science. My reasoning skills, though, are, as recorded by the State itself, higher than most any human being on the planet. Quentin Tarantino has about the IQ I do, according to some tests he took. Quentin Tarantino failed highschool. Shows that factual IQ and reasoning IQ are two different things.

That's all I ever meant. I'm not factually smart in any sort of real way. Not at all. Reasoning wise? I really am probably the smartest vaper here when it comes to that. I can reason something like it's no tomorrow, and constantly be right in the very, very, very, very, very distant end, no matter how wrong I am in times before it, the things I reason, and can be wrong about, lead to conclusions that I eventually am right about all along. Even if it's just in the fact that I'm right that "something" is wrong. I even have the taste buds to know it, which, in the position I'm standing in right now, is a BLESSING for my health!

Would I have wanted to vape Kanthal oils all day, even if I couldn't taste them? Heck no. I, like many people here, thought they burnt off in like a micro-second of vaping. I'm here to say that that is NOT the case. Not according to tests I've done that to all factors of sense and taste, prove the exact oppposite. Do I have to convince anyone of that? No. Would I enjoy people to agree that the science behind it can be tricky? Yes. Am I going to use torched wire from now on? Without a doubt. I won't look back.

I mean, it's just sad that I had to come to all these conclusions by myself. I sure as heck didn't want to. Yet I wasn't about to bust out the torch without knowing WHY. Wasn't going to dare do it. Now I know. %99.9 sure. If it doesn't work, then back to the drawing board, but I am very, very, very, very confident it will. Never been so confident in a theory before. Every other theory I've ever had, I admit, some had loopholes, some had unexplained things that I myself could explain. But this one. No. It explains virtually everything to do with good results in the RDA world. Beyond wicking. Beyond juice. Beyond silica. Beyond heat. Beyond ohms. Beyond draw type. Everything.

Proof? I've vaped a pre-torched gunked coil before, and the taste isn't bad, especially with NET tobaccos. No metal tastes at all. Just pure vape, pure gunk, a nice little dirty coil. Nothing acidic. Nothing that burns my cheeks. Nothing that makes me cough. Even with a rather problematic issue of gunking, nothing "unnatural" about the vape. That's how I know. That's why I feel this is is an issue.

"This is the truth! This is my belief! .... At least for now." - Any old-school Super Nintendo'ers may get this line, if they had any sense in gaming tastes.

"I'm a super-taster, and a super-gamer, me, me, I'm a super-gamer!" - Anyone who has any taste in comedy should also get this