What is wrong with you?

[grandmato5]

CASAA issued 3 calls to action yesterday for those of us living in New York State letting us know there are currently 3 different proposed bills in our NYS legislature which would change the vaping world here in New York State. Looks to me like the anti vaping crowd pretty much has the entire gambit covered hoping something will stick in NYS

Ya know, I do totally understand why there are people that think its all fear mongering when we discuss what many of us fear the future holds for vaping. After all, other then some no vaping where no smoking is allowed regulations not much has changed in the US since I started vaping in 2010. Been lots of different proposed regulations in different places but few have actually managed to be passed into law. The FDA has been telling us they were going to deem our e-cigs as tobacco products since they lost the court battle to make them a medical device in 2011, but we've still not seen the deeming order.

IMO those that think its all fear mongering fail to recognize that without those willing to stand up and fight against the various proposed legislation MANY things would have already changed. In the almost 4 years I've been participating the amount of attacks on our e-cigs have grown significantly. Three different bills currently in the NYS legislative session is new territory for us in NYS. We've often had to deal with one proposed bill during a session but never before has there been 3 different ones in the same session. And by the way, none of these bills would have much of any effect on my own personal vaping ability but I am and I will fight against every one of them because every one of these WILL affect some people's ability to vape and EVERYONE deserves the right to stop smoking and vape if they wish !

1st Bill) Would ban vaping where ever smoking is currently banned.

2nd bill) Would impose a between 75% and 95% of wholesale price tax on ecig products containing nicotine (there are both assembly and senate versions of this bill that currently have slightly different verbage)

3rd bill) Would ban the sale of e-lquid containing nicotine in NYS .

 

[Mutescream]

Which can all be traced to icklei's agenda 21. (They have a headquarters in NYC btw)
Healthy and Happy Community | ICLEI Global
http://www.freedomadvocates.org/download/research/agenda21/local-agenda-21.pdf

recognize the RWJf changelabsolutions "healthy communities" logo?

Wales Category: Iclei - DEMOCRATS  AGAINST  U. N.  AGENDA  21
Your city or state Member List. (Some have disowned it, you have to do your update homework

It goes back further than that. Google up the following keywords together, "Rockefeller" "board of education" "men of letters". The stage was set a century ago.

But, let's also be realistic. Those that choose to accept this as a probable outcome are a very fringe minority. Even if all were centrally located and organized, they would be very hard pressed to defend themselves and their freedoms. The reality is that those that believe are scattered and likely most wouldn't even know who the others are, if they bumped into them on the street.

Another reality is people are overly dependent on their tech. How many people could function w/o their cell. phones and can/could even read a map? Considering how easy it is to track people by their cell phones, we're hosed.

Think for a minute what can be learned by looking at cell phone records. They can know when and where you sleep, where you go (and how long you are there) in addition to knowing who you hang out with (and talk to).

Tell me, if the government decides to make their move... How long do you think our coddled citizenry would be able to stand up for themselves (assuming they can muster up the dignity and courage to do so)?

 

[VapieDan]

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!"

John Adams

He must have been a vaper

 

[VapieDan]

"If our Trade be taxed, why not our Lands, or Produce in short, everything we possess? They tax us without having legal representation."

Samuel Adams

Now they tax everything with representation be that as it may.

 

[VapieDan]

"Any excuse will serve a tyrant."

Aesop

Still true it seems.

 

[VapieDan]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin

I feel so much safer in non smoking areas.

 

[Sundodger]

WOW! Shows how often I get to the General area....how'd I miss this discussion. Nothing to add except I'm on the side of not allowing any more rights go down the drain in this country, whether it be vaping where I want, personal protective devices, as many as I want and the ability to supply them, or the right to argue one's thoughts, whether I consider them to be totally wrong. I will fight for anyone's right to speak their mind, without fear.
Fear is how we get divided on so many issues. Put the boogieman in place and let fear do the rest.

 

[Mutescream]

"Any excuse will serve a tyrant."

Aesop

Still true it seems.

"Let them eat cake."

Marie Antoinette

A shame the people couldn't even be bothered to do anything during Hillary's "what difference does it make" moment.

Hell, let's break out some Orwell.

"Some animals are more equal than others."

 

[BlueSnake]

The problem is too many people like to come on a forum and complain about the Government and all the legislation they are passing but they do nothing to stop it or fight it. Everyone that vapes in secret because it may be offensive to others around apparently forgot what it was like to be a smoker. We would stop just outside the door of a restaurant and finish that cig, even though families, with children!, would have to walk through the cloud of smoke. We smelled like a wet ashtray all the time and I am pretty sure the person at the table next to you didn't enjoy your aroma.

My plan if vaping is hit hard by nicotine liquid taxes or banning is to buy bottles of 100% VG and vape it in WalMart like a champ. I will be blowing clouds of something that contains no nicotine. Let someone try to stop me. It is about time for people in the US to stand up and say ENOUGH!!!!!! Until we do the politicians and lobbyists are going to take away everything we hold dear for the sake of money.

I am all for public vaping. Huge clouds are NOT the issue. The real issue is money and us poor vapers do not have enough to make a difference in the fight. All we have is our ability to stand up and tell the Government to leave us alone. Every vaper that says we should hide in a closet to vape is giving too much ground to the other side. We need to make it seen and known. The ANTZ aren't hiding and they are doing a damn fine job of making vaping disappear. Maybe we are all missing the point? The squeaky wheel gets the grease, after all.

You're naive if you believe that. NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, happens in government that isn't controlled by the money. Right or wrong has nothing to do with it. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. No matter what the issue.

 

[BlueSnake]

This whole issue isn't even about vaping for me. It's about my rights as a tax paying adult to make decisions for myself in a supposedly free society. I should be able to inhale cyanide if I want to. Oh wait, I can if I return to analogs.........

Yeah and you should be allowed to shoot someone if you don't like what they're doing.

 

[MissBoo]

I live in Illinois and my DH and I while in a local vape shop picked up information to send to Illinois politicians and we both emailed this. Today I got a response from one saying that the language on the ban until child proofing had been established had been removed. I've since sent her another e-mail asking for clarification to be sure that e-liquids will not be banned. I'll post if I get a response.

Just a follow-up post from my earlier one. I did get a response from the House Representative that the language banning the sale of e-liquid until the child-proofing regulations could be made has been removed from the bill that passed the House. Just shows that if we make a stink maybe we can make a difference. Illinois vapers got a little breathing room it looks like ... for now.

 

[JoeDerty]

Yes, I am a little concerned with what might be the final outcome to the e-cig industry ... But I am just as worried about what the government is going to do with people (like myself) that own one of these:

Or one of these:

Basically, I am fighting two battles right now ... The E-cigs and the semi-auto guns!

I'm right there with you I'm a huge gun nut! I've been fighting that battle for a long time and the E-Cigs battle isn't to much different!

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

I understand how you feel, but the problem is we now have a government that doesn't know how to be reasonable about anything. Based on where you live I would think you'd understand that more than others. I live in Illinois which isn't much better than NY and I for one can't wait for my oldest son to graduate high school to get the hell out of this corrupt, over-taxed and deeply in debt State.

There are plenty of reasonable people in NY. We suffer the same thing the most extremist red states suffer. The reasonable don't go to the voting booth as much as the extremists do. Yes, most are liberal, but liberal doesn't mean socialist, communist, or fascist. Evey one of my friends would be classified as liberal and each and everyone one of them hated Bloomberg before the soda nonsense. My friends and I did get to the voting booth as we have a pact to go and woe to the one who doesn't. Unfortunately, we were outnumbered by the looney tune fringe at the voting booths. That fringe is still fringe though, just as I suspect states like Mississippi are mostly populated by reasonable people not out to declare a return to the dark ages and make women the property of their husbands. I bring up Mississippi as my sister lives there so it's the first red state I think of, not that I think it's any better or worse then any other.

 

[Jman8]

By the way, I've already been screwed, in that my insurance at work has gone up $50 per month.
Simply because I use nicotine.

And this has been done by people who probably drink a pot of coffee per day.

So admittedly, this isn't as big of an issue with me as usage bans.

But I still think it is outrageous! I truly wish there was a way to change this, and change it fast.

IMO, laws around ACA haven't done anything to change the scamming that big insurance engages in. It is only the stigma of smoking (aka the shame) that makes this seem palatable to average person. Like, no big deal that insurance rates are higher for a nic user. They'll probably end up using their insurance faster/more than me.

Yet, I'm currently not aware of ANY SUBSTANCE on this planet that doesn't lead to harm. For sure none that are 100% safe. But also for sure most of which don't have a popular stigma associated with them. Hence the scam. Put the heavy load on the nic user, and let the caffein addict, sugar addict, meatless, veggie-less person get off paying lower/average rates, and call that a 'good, fair' system for all.

I'm uninsured. I honestly tried to sign up for insurance before that deadline thingy and it was too challenging. I have reason to have health insurance. But with all that said, I gotta say that in this moment, I feel better not having it. Doctors treat you a little better, with more respect for you as buyer (and will often discount all their services) if you aren't tied to insurance. I know. I've been insured and uninsured and currently do have high preference to be without.

Insurance didn't always seem like a scam to me, but nowadays, it is really hard to conclude otherwise. Especially if you are going to raise rates simply because a person uses nicotine. That is a travesty, and yet, I don't know of a way to change that. Would be like convincing millions of Americans that the secondhand smoke thing isn't half as bad as we've been lead to believe. People might actually be open to listening to that, but forget all about the reasoning the next time that smell wafts up to their nostrils. Then it's all about, "off with their heads."

(Someone had to work a little Lewis Carroll into this thread)

 

[Sundodger]

There are plenty of reasonable people in NY. We suffer the same thing the most extremist red states suffer. The reasonable don't go to the voting booth as much as the extremists do. Yes, most are liberal, but liberal doesn't mean socialist, communist, or fascist. Evey one of my friends would be classified as liberal and each and everyone one of them hated Bloomberg before the soda nonsense. My friends and I did get to the voting booth as we have a pact to go and woe to the one who doesn't. Unfortunately, we were outnumbered by the looney tune fringe at the voting booths. That fringe is still fringe though, just as I suspect states like Mississippi are mostly populated by reasonable people not out to declare a return to the dark ages and make women the property of their husbands. I bring up Mississippi as my sister lives there so it's the first red state I think of, not that I think it's any better or worse then any other.

I'm sorry but this post reminds me of the old story of the cannibal passing his friend in the jungle. Emphasis on PASSING.

 

[Recycled Roadkill]

"If you take a walk I'll tax your feet"

Beatles, "Taxman"

 

[six]

There are plenty of reasonable people in NY. We suffer the same thing the most extremist red states suffer. The reasonable don't go to the voting booth as much as the extremists do. Yes, most are liberal, but liberal doesn't mean socialist, communist, or fascist.

I have lived there - worked there - and I still pay taxes on the tiny bit of land the State of NY stole the rest of from me a couple of decades ago not too far from Albany in an area that used to be called Pine Woody.

I'm going to disagree with your assessment of NY liberalism not equating to fascism and socialism. And, I think I'm going to go ahead and assume you are a lot younger than I am. Once upon a time, the good people of NY were free but now have been oppressed so long that many don't even remember what freedom was like. Come out West to a Red State like ND, SD, MT, or WY for a year or two. After you have enjoyed being able to keep what you own and keep a lot more of what you earn, you might not think it's so bad. When the government mostly keeps its nose out of your personal business and doesn't require you to pay them for the privilege of being taxed by them and your kids get to enjoy a quality education and you get to help decide how much of your taxes are necessary for that education and even get a say in how the money is spent...

[...]not out to declare a return to the dark ages and make women the property of their husbands

Your concern over anyone owning women is not evident here. The women I know are strong and independent. In fact, those two qualities are what I found so irresistible about my wife. She did a good job of passing those qualities to my daughter. My sisters are much the same... my mother certainly was... my aunts... Yeah. That's right. Men in Red States have moms - wives - daughters - aunts - sisters... We respect them and love them. No one is trying to own women.

Some of us are, however, trying to make sure the nanny-state agenda doesn't get a strong foothold in the places we call home. So, when the day comes some liberal fool tries to tell me I can't have my e-juice, I plan to be prepared to fight him. Soap box, ballot box, the court house, the websites I write for, local and state media, ... heck. I'll give them whatever fight they ask for.

" We shall fight on beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender..." --Winston Churchill 06/04/1940

 

[EleanorR]

It's always a good day when I see Churchill quoted.

Thanks, six!

 

[EddardinWinter]

Here is a ban on all e-cig liquid in the entire state of New York. It does not make an exception for nicotine free liquids.

S6939-2013 - NY Senate Open Legislation - Prohibits the sale or provision of any quantity of electronic liquid - New York State Senate

The language in the NY bill is stunning. Unbelievably, they source the unsourced NYT article as the justification for the bill!


There is another proposal in California that bans internet sales to CA residents...amazing.

 

[kristin]

Other things you can do to help CASAA fight: How You Can Help

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