What is wrong with you?

[Panorama911]

The issues are many...Taxation, all out banning, regulating use and probably other not so detrimental, but issues nonetheless, just not discussed much. So what is being done to prevent these actions....contacting legislators, signing petitions etc. All good ways to achieve a desired goal, The problem I see is that when our governments see a threat to their revenue they will stop at nothing to retain it, I feel this is the case here.

By banning our products it would mean most would would return to analogs, this would be a way to regain lost revenue.

Taxing would do the same.

Regulating usually has fees, fines and taxes involved.

So here is my angle to put this all to bed.....For starters we need to re focus the "weapons" we are using to stop this senseless war. Instead of petitioning, contacting legislators, most of which are caught in between a rock and a hard place, we need to direct the focus towards the medical professionals and insurance industry.....Stay with me here now.....here is the angle.....

Have Eciig products be classified as medical devices as they are used for "smoking cessation"....From the best of my knowledge all medications and medical supplies are NON TAXABLE, exempt from any form of taxation. It is a losing battle for the opposition to say that vaping is not a way to stop smoking. Too argue this would be utterly ridiculous. GAME OVER

My physician has no problem saying my vaping has kept me from smoking the last 2.5 years and the lung improvement can be proved also. My insurance has lowered my cost as a result of stopping the use of tobacco as well.

This is the angle needing to be used, a much better way to kill all this BS the governments are trying to do.

Just my approach..

Dal

 

[LDS714]

Interesting tactic. At least deserves some consideration...

 

[wv2win]

The issues are many...Taxation, all out banning, regulating use and probably other not so detrimental, but issues nonetheless, just not discussed much. So what is being done to prevent these actions....contacting legislators, signing petitions etc. All good ways to achieve a desired goal, The problem I see is that when our governments see a threat to their revenue they will stop at nothing to retain it, I feel this is the case here.

By banning our products it would mean most would would return to analogs, this would be a way to regain lost revenue.

Taxing would do the same.

Regulating usually has fees, fines and taxes involved.

So here is my angle to put this all to bed.....For starters we need to re focus the "weapons" we are using to stop this senseless war. Instead of petitioning, contacting legislators, most of which are caught in between a rock and a hard place, we need to direct the focus towards the medical professionals and insurance industry.....Stay with me here now.....here is the angle.....

Have Eciig products be classified as medical devices as they are used for "smoking cessation"....From the best of my knowledge all medications and medical supplies are NON TAXABLE, exempt from any form of taxation. It is a losing battle for the opposition to say that vaping is not a way to stop smoking. Too argue this would be utterly ridiculous. GAME OVER

My physician has no problem saying my vaping has kept me from smoking the last 2.5 years and the lung improvement can be proved also. My insurance has lowered my cost as a result of stopping the use of tobacco as well.

This is the angle needing to be used, a much better way to kill all this BS the governments are trying to do.

Just my approach..

Dal

In a logical world with a logical government, you would be correct. Unfortunately, that is not the case in this country as it pertains to vaping.

The FDA tried to classify vaping as a "medical aid" back in 2009. In doing so, they effectively banned vaping nationwide and confiscated thousands of both suppliers and individuals shipments of vaping supplies. If they had succeeded, all vaping accessories would be required to have very costly and very time intensive testing (10+ years in many cases) before they could be on the market. Then they would only be available through prescription with probable limits associated with current NRT products (2mg & 4mg nicotine strengths only). The only players in the game (due to cost) would have been the Big Pharm companies and possibly Big Tobacco. Not a pretty picture.

In other words, vaping would have died in 2009. NJoy and SE went to court 6 different times to stop that classification and won.

Many believe that a more appropriate classification should be that associated with the supplement's industry.

 

[Mutescream]

There's a problem with having it labelled a "smoking cessation device"... That would place it under the purview of the FDA. If that ever happens, game over for vaping. Even if it does hit the market, it will be after years of clinical trials and for a long time require a prescription to get juice.

Big pharma has a much greater interest in keeping vaping off the market. Forget the gums and lozenges (which while being a good chunk of change, is small potatoes in the grand scheme), they want people to keep getting sick from smoking. There's a whole lot of money to be made in managing symptoms for people that have hosed up their health after decades of smoking.

 

[Jman8]

It looks like smoking, which is why little Timmy can't vape at Target or the courthouse...

No, that's not why. Timmy can vape inside of Target or at the courthouse, even while vaping looks like smoking, and even while vapor is clearly not smoke.

Timmy is not allowed to vape at some Targets or some courthouses, because legislators in those jurisdictions sold lies through the legislation about what harm there is / could be from secondhand vapor.

Timmy can still vape in those places, cause Timmy isn't causing harm to people passing by. Not even a little bit. But Timmy may be stopped dead cold in his tracks by people who find Timmy's actions shameful and uncivil.

Then again, Timmy may find ways to make sure no one ever notices his vapor in these places.

If vaping everywhere and anywhere is the be all end all issue with the extremists, they are in for a rude awakening.

Sounds like fear mongering. As one who can vape in EVERY SINGLE PLACE YOU CAN POSSIBLY NAME, I don't see the issue with what you are mongering about.

Maybe there is a law against vaping in public in some areas. So what?

Well, there was some other guy on this thread with your exact name and exact avatar claiming there were no laws and no reasons to be concerned because nothing has ever happened. That's what. Wouldn't be weird if you and he were the same person and you had to suddenly admit that what you said earlier wasn't accurate? That'd be a hoot!

 

[Panorama911]

In a logical world with a logical government, you would be correct. Unfortunately, that is not the case in this country as it pertains to vaping.

The FDA tried to classify vaping as a "medical aid" back in 2009. In doing so, they effectively banned vaping nationwide and confiscated thousands of both suppliers and individuals shipments of vaping supplies. If they had succeeded, all vaping accessories would be required to have very costly and very time intensive testing (10+ years in many cases) before they could be on the market. Then they would only be available through prescription with probable limits associated with current NRT products (2mg & 4mg nicotine strengths only). The only players in the game (due to cost) would have been the Big Pharm companies and possibly Big Tobacco. Not a pretty picture.

In other words, vaping would have died in 2009. NJoy and SE went to court 6 different times to stop that classification and won.

Many believe that a more appropriate classification should be that associated with the supplement's industry.

Point well taken. I am not aware of this action previously taken. That said, as for the FDA getting involved they already did. Nicotine has been well tested. And PG is used in inhalers for asthma. What is left to test, the battery and the electronic components? Neither of which would come under FDA regulations, OSHA/EPA perhaps but we have used batteries and chips and all the other electronic components for decades.

Yes in my approach there are drawbacks, such as obtaining a prescription, office visits. But I am willing to accept this as it is sure better than the alternative of prohibition and/or taxation.

Dal

 

[twgbonehead]

In a logical world with a logical government, you would be correct. Unfortunately, that is not the case in this country as it pertains to vaping.

Many believe that a more appropriate classification should be that associated with the supplement's industry.

And that many of the ignorant laws and ordinances being proposed should be associated with the suppository industry.

 

[six]

I noticed immediately the liaison between 2nd Amendment rights advocates and Vaper's rights followers.

The important things to recognize are that 1) It is largely the same exact people who are for banning guns, banning foods, banning this that or the other thing as banning vaping. 2) They are a fringe element. 3) Someone keeps giving that tiny minority fringe element big megaphones.

They talk tough - they shout loudly - and they have been given a platform that allows them undeserved and unearned influence. They've followed the "I know what's best for you" ideology for so long that they actually believe their own nonsense. Those who support them place no limits on that support, and those who hand them megaphones do so for their own monetary gain. Those last two facts make them believe they number more than they do. --- They are the lunatic fringe, but they spend all of their time and resources trying to make people think that you are... and too often they even convince those they accuse that their accusations are true.

It is absolutely bizarre. It astounds me. The nanny-staters have been shockingly successful even though they really are a tiny little fringe group made up of puffed up, self-important blow-hards. ..... Their enablers need to be held accountable. Those who hand them megaphones and lend them platforms need to be held accountable. Those who provide them financing need to be publicly blamed. Eyes need to be opened.

 

[DC2]

The issues are many...Taxation, all out banning, regulating use and probably other not so detrimental, but issues nonetheless, just not discussed much. So what is being done to prevent these actions....contacting legislators, signing petitions etc. All good ways to achieve a desired goal, The problem I see is that when our governments see a threat to their revenue they will stop at nothing to retain it, I feel this is the case here.

By banning our products it would mean most would would return to analogs, this would be a way to regain lost revenue.

Taxing would do the same.

Regulating usually has fees, fines and taxes involved.

So here is my angle to put this all to bed.....For starters we need to re focus the "weapons" we are using to stop this senseless war. Instead of petitioning, contacting legislators, most of which are caught in between a rock and a hard place, we need to direct the focus towards the medical professionals and insurance industry.....Stay with me here now.....here is the angle.....

Have Eciig products be classified as medical devices as they are used for "smoking cessation"....From the best of my knowledge all medications and medical supplies are NON TAXABLE, exempt from any form of taxation. It is a losing battle for the opposition to say that vaping is not a way to stop smoking. Too argue this would be utterly ridiculous. GAME OVER

My physician has no problem saying my vaping has kept me from smoking the last 2.5 years and the lung improvement can be proved also. My insurance has lowered my cost as a result of stopping the use of tobacco as well.

This is the angle needing to be used, a much better way to kill all this BS the governments are trying to do.

Just my approach..

Dal

This is a topic for a new thread.

Not that I'm trying to shut you down.
In fact, far from it.

But there are MANY angles to the route you suggest that could be discussed.

Of course if people want to take this thread in that direction, I'm good with that.
I don't feel that because I posted a thread I therefore own it.



This much I can tell you though...

As far as a blanket ruling that electronic cigarettes are medicinal products, that is not possible.
Although the Judge Leon ruling does not preclude any individual e-cig company from applying for such status if they can afford to do so.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Well, there was some other guy on this thread with your exact name and exact avatar claiming there were no laws and no reasons to be concerned because nothing has ever happened. That's what. Wouldn't be weird if you and he were the same person and you had to suddenly admit that what you said earlier wasn't accurate? That'd be a hoot!

Don't hold your breathe...he simply stopped speaking to me before he would admit it.

But I want to point this detail out, because I think it is important. Not only did he say there was nothing to fear because the only regulations that have been enacted only restrict vaping to smoking areas, but he also accused anyone saying that there was a legitimate legislative danger of fear mongering. Not that they are mistaken, or merely wrong, but fear mongering. Oh, the intolerance of it!

Definition:
Fear mongering (or scaremongering or scare tactics) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle.

So, tell me, to what end is this fear mongering Steve speaks of being used? By definition, there must be and agenda with a specific end... If that is the case, what are me, Jman, DC, and the others on this thread hoping to gain by spreading this fear? Define our specific end, Steve, if you can.

 

[Mutescream]

The important things to recognize are that 1) It is largely the same exact people who are for banning guns, banning foods, banning this that or the other thing as banning vaping. 2) They are a fringe element. 3) Someone keeps giving that tiny minority fringe element big megaphones.

They talk tough - they shout loudly - and they have been given a platform that allows them undeserved and unearned influence. They've followed the "I know what's best for you" ideology for so long that they actually believe their own nonsense. Those who support them place no limits on that support, and those who hand them megaphones do so for their own monetary gain. Those last two facts make them believe they number more than they do. --- They are the lunatic fringe, but they spend all of their time and resources trying to make people think that you are... and too often they even convince those they accuse that their accusations are true.

It is absolutely bizarre. It astounds me. The nanny-staters have been shockingly successful even though they really are a tiny little fringe group made up of puffed up, self-important blow-hards. ..... Their enablers need to be held accountable. Those who hand them megaphones and lend them platforms need to be held accountable. Those who provide them financing need to be publicly blamed. Eyes need to be opened.

The problem is that far too many people in this country (and in others) are vapid drooling idiots. The most amazing thing about them is their ability to follow what they are told in such specific detail, and maintain such perfect lock step.

Millitary bootcamp could only dream of such efficacy in brainwashing and subversion of will/suspension of disbelief.

We (and many to follow) are thoroughly hosed. We oppose those that control the educational system, the media and the direction of the economy (keeping far too many too involved with how to support their children financially, to be effective parents).

 

[DC2]

If I'm fear-mongering I'd sure like to know what my purpose is in doing so.

I make no money from vaping in any way, shape, or form.
I am in no way affiliated with any vape shop, online retailer, or electronic cigarette company.

I am a member of CASAA, and would love to see their membership grow, as well as their coffers.
But I enjoy no monetary gain from such actions.

In fact, I have donated well over two thousand dollars to electronic cigarette causes over the years, including...
--CASAA
--New York legal fund
--Dr. Farsalinos research fund
--We Are Vapers project
--IVAQs research project

People can say I'm stupid and ignorant for doing so.
But to say that I am fear-mongering is beyond offensive to me.

But I don't care if you offend me.
We all have the right to our opinions in America still, including the right to offend others.

And when I say still, I mean, yeah, sort of maybe.

 

[B1sh0p]

If I'm fear-mongering I'd sure like to know what my purpose is in doing so.

I make no money from vaping in any way, shape, or form.
I am in no way affiliated with any vape shop, online retailer, or electronic cigarette company.

I am a member of CASAA, and would love to see their membership grow, as well as their coffers.
But I enjoy no monetary gain from such actions.

In fact, I have donated well over two thousand dollars to electronic cigarette causes over the years, including...
--CASAA
--New York legal fund
--Dr. Farsalinos research fund
--We Are Vapers project
--IVAQs research project

People can say I'm stupid and ignorant for doing so.
But to say that I am fear-mongering is beyond offensive to me.

But I don't care if you offend me.
We all have the right to our opinions in America still, including the right to offend others.

And when I say still, I mean, yeah, sort of maybe.

Boredom?...

 

[Mutescream]

Boredom?...

You think someone would do this for "Teh LULZ"?

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

The issues are many...Taxation, all out banning, regulating use and probably other not so detrimental, but issues nonetheless, just not discussed much. So what is being done to prevent these actions....contacting legislators, signing petitions etc. All good ways to achieve a desired goal, The problem I see is that when our governments see a threat to their revenue they will stop at nothing to retain it, I feel this is the case here.

By banning our products it would mean most would would return to analogs, this would be a way to regain lost revenue.

Taxing would do the same.

Regulating usually has fees, fines and taxes involved.

So here is my angle to put this all to bed.....For starters we need to re focus the "weapons" we are using to stop this senseless war. Instead of petitioning, contacting legislators, most of which are caught in between a rock and a hard place, we need to direct the focus towards the medical professionals and insurance industry.....Stay with me here now.....here is the angle.....

Have Eciig products be classified as medical devices as they are used for "smoking cessation"....From the best of my knowledge all medications and medical supplies are NON TAXABLE, exempt from any form of taxation. It is a losing battle for the opposition to say that vaping is not a way to stop smoking. Too argue this would be utterly ridiculous. GAME OVER

My physician has no problem saying my vaping has kept me from smoking the last 2.5 years and the lung improvement can be proved also. My insurance has lowered my cost as a result of stopping the use of tobacco as well.

This is the angle needing to be used, a much better way to kill all this BS the governments are trying to do.

Just my approach..

Dal

Interesting. I agree that my new doc cannot believe that I was a heavy smoker for over 40 yrs. [The Chantix Rx smoking cessation product did not work for me. It was the worst physical, mental, emotional experience I've ever had in my life. Thank god I found e-cigs and vaping.]

Back to your proposal,

As a medical device then, will I still be able to get my e-cig meds like I do now, or how will that take place, exactly?

 

[MissBoo]

There is a reasonable way to vape anywhere for sure. I do it all the time. I stealth vape in restaurants. My issue isn't that it shouldn't be allowed. My issue is that I shouldn't be lumped in with zealots for stating that it's obnoxious to blow clouds in restaurants, and it's obnoxious to be called an ANTZ for not blowing clouds in restaurants. It's also obnoxious to be called an ANTZ for stating the obvious. There are reasonable laws that COULD and SHOULD be enacted for vaping. I for one would like a guarantee on the nic level I'm using and the ingredients in liquid. It is, after all, something we are inhaling.

I understand how you feel, but the problem is we now have a government that doesn't know how to be reasonable about anything. Based on where you live I would think you'd understand that more than others. I live in Illinois which isn't much better than NY and I for one can't wait for my oldest son to graduate high school to get the hell out of this corrupt, over-taxed and deeply in debt State.

 

[Panorama911]

Interesting. I agree that my new doc cannot believe that I was a heavy smoker for over 40 yrs. [The Chantix Rx smoking cessation product did not work for me. It was the worst physical, mental, emotional experience I've ever had in my life. Thank god I found e-cigs and vaping.]

Back to your proposal,

As a medical device then, will I still be able to get my e-cig meds like I do now, or how will that take place, exactly?

I think I was speaking in broad general way. It really would not be necessary to list the device as medical I would suppose, but knowing the government, they would need the device to be listed as such. As for the juice it would just be a matter of having a prescription, just like for Chantix. In this case your doctor would fax the script to the vendor of choice.

But really none of this is needed, just like gum or lozenges at the local store just walk in and purchase, only the product would be deemed as non taxable. All this can be done in the writing of the bill, like in some states, food is tax exempt. In our case the juice and devices are exempt.

I agree it is a long shot as the government wants our cash, period and if they can gain control over your life in the process, that too. Just another angle to consider.

Dal

 

[DC2]

Boredom?...

Seriously?

With a reply like that, I think it would be more valid to question your intentions than mine.
So what are your intentions? What are your thoughts?

Are you onboard with Stevegmu in the seeming belief that no one should care at this time?
That we haven't been fully screwed yet, so we should shut up and wait until we are?

By the way, I've already been screwed, in that my insurance at work has gone up $50 per month.
Simply because I use nicotine.

And this has been done by people who probably drink a pot of coffee per day.

 

[MissBoo]

If you live in Illinois, last week was a bad week, but at least they pass bills quickly with little debate.

Illinois General Assembly - Bill Status for HB5689


Until the labeling is defined, eliquid cannot be sold.

Did somebody called these concerns fear mongering?

I live in Illinois and my DH and I while in a local vape shop picked up information to send to Illinois politicians and we both emailed this. Today I got a response from one saying that the language on the ban until child proofing had been established had been removed. I've since sent her another e-mail asking for clarification to be sure that e-liquids will not be banned. I'll post if I get a response.

 

[Uma]

The important things to recognize are that 1) It is largely the same exact people who are for banning guns, banning foods, banning this that or the other thing as banning vaping. 2) They are a fringe element. 3) Someone keeps giving that tiny minority fringe element big megaphones.

They talk tough - they shout loudly - and they have been given a platform that allows them undeserved and unearned influence. They've followed the "I know what's best for you" ideology for so long that they actually believe their own nonsense. Those who support them place no limits on that support, and those who hand them megaphones do so for their own monetary gain. Those last two facts make them believe they number more than they do. --- They are the lunatic fringe, but they spend all of their time and resources trying to make people think that you are... and too often they even convince those they accuse that their accusations are true.

It is absolutely bizarre. It astounds me. The nanny-staters have been shockingly successful even though they really are a tiny little fringe group made up of puffed up, self-important blow-hards. ..... Their enablers need to be held accountable. Those who hand them megaphones and lend them platforms need to be held accountable. Those who provide them financing need to be publicly blamed. Eyes need to be opened.

Which can all be traced to icklei's agenda 21. (They have a headquarters in NYC btw)
Healthy and Happy Community | ICLEI Global
http://www.freedomadvocates.org/download/research/agenda21/local-agenda-21.pdf

recognize the RWJf changelabsolutions "healthy communities" logo?

Wales http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/1/category/iclei/1.html
Your city or state http://downtowncary.org/member-list-iclei-local-governments-for-sustainability-usa/. (Some have disowned it, you have to do your update homework)

Another headquarters in Oakland http://capoliticalnews.com/2013/04/...o-united-nations-agenda-21-jobs-will-be-lost/

A video that lightly explains a21 with news blurbs, town hall meetings, etc. There are other videos that explain it thoroughly, but this one explores the major hidden agendas that are not so hidden anymore.
http://youtu.be/kUI541MJyV0

An older list of towns who dropped out. Notice how the towns we fight/fought are on this list and who's on deck. Beverly Hills. Davis, bla bla bla http://www.varight.com/news/agenda-...quit-iclei-in-18-months-we-got-em-on-the-run/

We are fighting for our rights, one town at a time, one issue at a time. Join CASAA and your freedom advocates both. They are linked in this war. Together we can win America back.
http://www.sustainablelibertynow.org/nationwide-resolutions-against-agenda-21iclei.html