What state is the ECA registered in as a Business League?

[Krakkan]

Don't you feel it is about time for a white flag here this back and forth is a bit ridiculous. Ok so the ECA is a newly formed organization still in its infancy and isnt as structured as it should be. So what it will be.

I have personally worked with alot of non-profits and I can tell you the ECA is better organized than most of the major ones so far lol. You be surprised but I am pretty sure the ECA will turn out to be a positive influence on the industry either way you cut it. Just give it some time considering the organization is a few months old I am surprised at the criticism. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[DangerMouse]

I'm new here, but if Babachoo doesn't like the ECA, is worried about their intentions, their legal status or how their board was 'elected', surely the answer is to just not give them any money? It's simple really - don't invest your money and then you can't get ripped off. Or am I missing something?

 

[Babachoo]

I'm new here, but if Babachoo doesn't like the ECA, is worried about their intentions, their legal status or how their board was 'elected', surely the answer is to just not give them any money? It's simple really - don't invest your money and then you can't get ripped off. Or am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing something. They still haven't answered a lot of questions that could impact the people who are inclined to hand them free money at this point. If you want to hand over money to someone who is making claims they haven't yet backed up, go right ahead and don't worry yourself about this thread.

 

[Terraphon]

Yes, you're missing something. They still haven't answered a lot of questions that could impact the people who are inclined to hand them free money at this point. If you want to hand over money to someone who is making claims they haven't yet backed up, go right ahead and don't worry yourself about this thread.

ok...I can't be arsed to read all of this huge fuster cluck so indulge me.

Make a bullet-pointed list of your questions and objections. Include reasoning and factual basis.

Organize it nice and pretty so everyone can understand and see what your gripes are.

Post it in this thread in a logical and orderly fashion.

Until then, it seems that you're publicly posting a BUNCH of accusatory "questions" and not giving much in the way of real information.

 

[DangerMouse]

Yes, you're missing something. They still haven't answered a lot of questions that could impact the people who are inclined to hand them free money at this point. If you want to hand over money to someone who is making claims they haven't yet backed up, go right ahead and don't worry yourself about this thread.

I'm not about to hand over any money to a US-based organisation, regardless of whether they answer your (or anyone elses) questions. I've got a mortgage to pay before I can give away my hard earned cash, and it's unlikely that it'd be of any use to me in any event seeing as I'm in the UK!

My point was more that I don't see what there is to get so worked up about. If you're not happy with the responses you've had, or not had as the case may be, then don't give them any of your money, move on and don't worry about it. Unless it's that you're genuinely worried about other people potentially being ripped off, in which case fair enough and well done for caring that much.

Personally, if people want to waste their money then they can crack on without a huge amount of sympathy from me, and certainly without me spending on expensive long distance phone calls.

Surely though if you're making claims that, essentially they're defrauding people then there are proper authorities to deal with that more effectively than here?

Anyway, it doesn't effect me so I'm not all that fussed - carry on fellas!

 

[Babachoo]

I'm not worked up over the issues at hand that I have asked the ECA about and am still waiting for answers on. It's a little annoying to have people not involved in the exchange pop in and give their two cents saying that they worship the ground the ECA walks on, telling me to forget about it and move on. It's them who should ignore it, not I. If you want to be a blind sheep and assume that everything is peachy keen, be my guest and throw money at anyone offering hope. But as far as my posts directed at the ECA lately, they're relatively civil and empathetic, but that doesn't mean that they've won me over, I'm just trying to be patient while they figure out how to respond to all the questions they've so far avoided. Not just mine, but questions others have posed as well.

By the way, I liked your Grey Album.

 

[Babachoo]

That being said I should have the actual documents to post tomorrow.

This was posted 6 days ago and still nothing posted.

 

[eric]

Not sure what a Terraphon is but as of right now, there is no proof of the ECA's status as a not-for-profit, and ALL DONATIONS THEY ARE RECEIVING UNTIL THEY CAN PROVIDE PROOF OF INCORPORATION AS A LEGAL NOT-FOR PROFIT ENTITY are simply "donations" made to a business running a scam.

So I will "give it a rest" when they can provide a link to their incorporation papers or provide some proof that they do indeed have 501c6 status. You pro-ECA thugs who wave the flags and attack anyone who has questions really need to use your brains and realize that if the ECA wants to win public approval, the tactics they're using so far, and the tactics their shills are using are quite counter-productive at this point.

I don't think it's an invalid argument. Babachoo has a point, and I say this having already donated to the ECA. I myself would like to see such proof, not because I don't trust them but because it is absolutely necessary. This is a no-brainer. I will defend the ECA's plight, but there is no reason they should immune to speculation.

 

[abudman]

I gotta say, Baba has a VALID point, you are asking for outside donations yet still unwilling to post even a copy of the application? It's like the people that come to the front door trying to sell you something, "Who do you work for? 'Kirby' They don't do direct marketing, company's resell their products, who do you work for? '??? Kirby?' Can I see your license? 'huh???' "

If you cannot produce even the most simple of documents being the application when there are questions about motives then I wouldn't give a dime either and would think that an investigation would be warranted.

 

[lordmage]

i think it best till an actual ECA spokesperson comes forward that can answer the questions . ask em and wait

 

[Terraphon]

Just a thought...If people want to remind Lacey of her commitment in this thread, send her a gently worded PM.

That's 1 pm.

Gently worded.

Diplomacy is the key.

I do NOT want to hear about her getting pm-bombed or people being nasty via PM. If this occurs, I will be very swift and very harsh in my dealing with the matter.

Thanks.

 

[Babachoo]

I won't be PM'ing her to remind her of anything. If she wants to ignore this for a year, that's on her and the ECA's credibility, not mine. I think she's already aware that they need to post a copy of their incorporation papers, they don't need us to be their secretaries and remind them of important things like that.

But yeah, if you do PM her, be gentle because I've seen how she acts when you don't sugar-coat everything for her.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

The post we are all waiting for would be from NYCSublimeGirl who sits on the board of the ECA.

 

[lordmage]

we need a volunteer to send a gently worded pm to NYC to swing by and answer the questions... Lacey maybe the ECA needs to elect a Q@A person who could stay here for a few hours a day and answer them.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Lordmage - I will definitely forward that suggestion on to NYC.

 

[nycsublimegirl]

Sorry for the delay in posting.


" The ECA's EIN is 26-4813246. [FONT="][URL="http://www.ecassoc.org/downloads/ECA_Doc.pdf"]www.ecassoc.org/downloads/ECA_Doc.pdf [/URL][/FONT]The nonprofit status takes time to acquire, however this only has implications for the ECA's taxes and not for donations. As stated several times on the forum...any donations to the ECA are not tax deductible as charitable contributions, as the ECA is not a charity. The ECA is a trade organization dedicated to ensuring the future of electronic cigarettes, per our mission statement. Once our nonprofit status has been accepted by the IRS we will provide the paperwork on our website.
As previously mentioned, it takes about 5-6 months to obtain a tax status.
It should be noted that obtaining a tax status from the IRS does not in any way indicate an organizations intentions or reputation....it is simply for tax purposes. We have a complete legal right to run ourselves as a 501c6 until our application has been approved.

As for the assertion that the ECA maybe a fraudulent organization, then following this assumption, it would also be the case that Matt Salmon has publicly aligned himself with an organization engaged in illegal activities. You would also have to assume that Njoy, Instead, ECig Supply, Bloog, AltSmoke, Sun Valley Systems, ELiquidPlanet, InLife, Crown7 and others who have been involved with the formation of the ECA or are current members are all taking time and giving money in the hopes of scamming money out of the very people who purchase their products. Not to mention Policy Impact who is working with us, http://www.policyimpact.com/ with clients such as GM, Tmobile, and Prudential...and are the very ones setting up our 501c6 and other tax docs.


The alternative to the "scam" theory is that the ECA is a bunch of suppliers coming together to protect their businesses and in the process protecting esmokers from a ban of a product they have come to love. The ECA wants donations because lobbying, admin costs, lawyers, and even attempting to set up industry standards is expensive. It is common knowledge that money talks and the esmoking industry has a lot to say.

The ECA encourages everyone to make up their minds about which of these theories is the most likely. We will continue to solicit donations because we need them to fight against those intent on an outright ban. If you don't believe that lobbying, creating media contacts, and setting up industry standards is the right approach, then we encourage you to contact us with your ideas via our website." James Watt - ECA board member


Here are some current news stories the ECA has managed to get quoted in:


1)(not the best story but we were accurately quoted) Virginia Times Dispatch: Smoking debate has become nicotine-delivery debate
Smoking debate has become nicotine-delivery debate | Richmond Times-Dispatch


2)New York Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/us/02cigarette.html




Future stories coming out: [FONT="]Matt Ehlers from the News and Observer of Raleigh, North Carolina[/FONT], and a local Florida and Texas paper.


[B]Please address all future questions to the ECA website and the contact page. thank you![/B]


A final note: If spelling mistakes and grammatical errors were a sure fire signal of intentions, then the entire internet is one big scam.


Please vote in this new petition:[URL="http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/local/SPEAK_UP_Should_e-cigarettes_be_legal_in_the_US.html"]SPEAK UP: Should e-cigarettes be legal in the U.S.? >> www.beaumontenterprise.com - Local[/URL]

 

[Terraphon]

Well...

With that all said, I think it may be time to let this issue drop. I think the relevant questions have been answered so unless someone has something clear, concise, measurable and pertinent to ask...That's that.

What I don't want to see is a bunch more accusations, speculation, hearsay, conjecture, rumors, etc...

 

[Babachoo]

I will temper my comments because I do appreciate you finally posting something, but it still leaves some questions.

1. That document is not complete, not stamped as a file copy, not notarized, not signed by the ECA board or applicants, and does not include the articles of incorporation (as submitted to the DCRA). Posting a partial document, in this case, only creates more doubt. So hopefully you can repost the entire filing (just a couple more pages), so that it looks more like this example. Don't get me wrong, it's a start, and I'm sure a lot of people are happy to see you trying.

2. So are you saying that you have not been accepted yet? I'm confused, because I've seen you all post that you are a registered 501c6, nothing said about status or acceptance pending, but now I've also seen it posted that your status is pending, or at least that's how I interpret it, based on the new disclaimer you posted above about how you can operate as a 501c6 before you actually get approved. So what's the actual status of your regsitration as a 501c6 as of today's date?

3. You should be very careful about solicitation if you are indeed not registered and in good standing already. NPO's are allowed to solicit funds before incorporation, but in most cases only to acquire funds for incorporation expenses, and generally only from members and vested parties, not from the general public. But I won't go too far with this because it is state law that governs solicitation practices from fledgling or applicant NPO's, and I do not know enough about it to comment further. But I suggest that you all do take the time or consult legal counsel regarding this matter to make sure you're not starting off on the wrong foot and thereby jeopardizing your application.

Thanks for finally answering questions and opening up a dialogue rather than attacking me. I'm hoping it's not because it went from one person (myself) questioning you to a growing group of doubters, hopefully it was because you realized that it would be bad business practice to not make these things available. Either way, thanks for the cooperation.

 

[nycsublimegirl]

in short reply, as I will have a longer reply later....

1) I will see if policy impact can get me more for you ....


2) I believe in my posts it says we filed, registered for - not were accepted...... ok for the love of god ...as i look now...that is exactly what has been said this whole time...would you look at that....look at my very first post here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/eca/15713-eca-tax-filing-non-profit.html#post254076

Clearly stating we filed and are waiting approval.... are you changing facts as we go along to improve you case?

3) Policy Impact is handling our complete incorporation papwerwork ... Considering they advise and work for clients like GM, T mobile and Prudential to name a few... and have worked for and set up other trade organizations....I think its safe to say they know what they are talking about.... When it comes to what we can and cannot do...they have lawyers and accountants on staff and know how to set this up period.

EDIT: and as far as the delay, running 2 companies, sitting on a BOD, researching and discussing political strategy has left me pretty tied up lately. In connection with Policy Impact being so busy on the Hill and on the senate floor these past weeks... this has fallen to the side... It has nothing to do with being afraid or ganged up on.

 

[Babachoo]

in short reply, as I will have a longer reply later....

1) I will see if policy impact can get me more for you ....


2) I believe in my posts it says we filed, registered for - not were accepted...... ok for the love of god ...as i look now...that is exactly what has been said this whole time...would you look at that....look at my very first post here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/eca/15713-eca-tax-filing-non-profit.html#post254076

Clearly stating we filed and are waiting approval.... are you changing facts as we go along to improve you case?

3) Policy Impact is handling our complete incorporation papwerwork ... Considering they advise and work for clients like GM, T mobile and Prudential to name a few... and have worked for and set up other trade organizations....I think its safe to say they know what they are talking about.... When it comes to what we can and cannot do...they have lawyers and accountants on staff and know how to set this up period.

Then why does your website state that you are a 501(c)(6) if in fact you aren't one yet? There are no declarations of status as a 501c6 being anything other than registered an in good standing, which we now know is not the case. You have applied for incorporation, but have not been accepted, thus you are not what you have been claiming you are here at ECF and elsewhere, that you are a 501c6 organization. Your application has NOT been approved and filed, and it's possible that it may be rejected based on your activities in this interim period before being approved. It's a shame you all cannot get your stories straight. It seems that it's the ECA who changes the facts, and not I, as you so rudely accused me of doing.

ECA Membership | Electronic Cigarette Association

Link to a screenshot in case they edit it out, like they've done here at ECF before, to cover their tracks.

Imageshack - eca1.png