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What the {edited} is wrong with this industry?

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by Lessifer, Jul 25, 2016.

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  1. Lessifer

    Lessifer Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I know there are some vendors who are doing everything they can to comply with and fight the coming maelstrom. This post is not directed at them.

    We are 1 day from the CRP federal law taking effect, and two weeks from the start of the deeming regs.

    If facebook vaping groups are any indication, there will be hundreds if not thousands of shops who will be found not in compliance. Why are shop owners asking TODAY what they need for their bottles to be certified CRP? Why are they asking today whether the 8oz bottle they pour from needs a SKU, or just the 15ml bottle they're pouring into to sell to the customer(hint, that won't be allowed, and it would be the 15ml bottle)? Why do they not know what constitutes a "new product" under the regulations?

    I'm frustrated, and I'm worried about the future of the industry. Yes, it sucks that any of this is necessary, but stay alive until you can change it.
    • Like Like x 20
  2. pappcam

    pappcam Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 16, 2015
    It's because many vendors are basically online vendors working from their basements and they can't afford to have a team of lawyers on staff to go through all these new regulations.

    I'm not sure why you're confused about this.
    • Like Like x 7
  3. Lessifer

    Lessifer Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Actually, what I'm mostly seeing in the fb groups is B&M shop owners, who mix/relabel their own liquid.

    What also bugs me is that I'm seeing these in the general FB groups. I'm not in the industry, I don't belong to any industry groups.
    • Like Like x 3
  4. retired1

    retired1 Administrator Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 5, 2013
    The first part is correct, but the second isn't. A lot of these "companies" weren't caught unaware. They figured they could fly under the radar long enough to make their $$$ and then move on to the next big thing.

    As for the physical store owners, many of them have had their head in the sand for so long, it's a wonder they're still in business. Especially those who are finding out about the deeming regulations and think "business as usual" will be just fine.
    • Like Like x 21
  5. Lessifer

    Lessifer Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    That's kind of my point, no one should be "finding out about the deeming regulations" at this stage in the game. I mean, I get it, you have a business to run, you can't spend hours online, but seriously?

    Anyways.... I didn't really intend this as a rant thread. I meant to follow up my original post with this but got distracted.

    If you have a vendor that you like and want to stay around, and it's somewhat apparent that they aren't prepared, reach out. Take a few minutes to talk to them about what is happening and what they need to do. If you don't know, send them somewhere where they can find the information. SFATA has resources for non-members, and I imagine their resources for members are even better. Even the FDA has some guidance documents out.
    • Like Like x 7
  6. Jman8

    Jman8 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2013
    Some of these businesses are perhaps not meant for the open, legal market.
    The underground market will welcome them with open arms.
    • Like Like x 9
  7. Steelgirl

    Steelgirl Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Houston, Tx
    Just try getting an answer to a simple question from the FDA. I double dare ya :(. I wish I was better at uploading articles from Twitter. I read an excellent one today. A guy asked simple yes or no question. Nearly all 400 pages were sent to him in the reply. And still didn't get his answer.
    • Like Like x 8
  8. Lessifer

    Lessifer Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Happen to remember what the question was?
  9. Train2

    Train2 ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 11, 2013
    CA, USA
    Probably something like, "is this glass tube a tobacco product?"


    • Like Like x 11
  10. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    That might be the funniest thing I've ever seen posted here.

    Well, besides one of the various gems posted by Haunted Mist.
    That dude's nuts, but in a good way.

    The FDA, not so much.
    • Like Like x 9
  11. AzPlumber

    AzPlumber Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2011
    I suspect most will hope they can plead ignorance when caught, get a warning and march forward from there.
    • Like Like x 5
  12. Steelgirl

    Steelgirl Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Houston, Tx
    He wanted to know if he needed a sku or pre-market thing for a non nicotine eliquid. Dr Siegel actually posted it on Twitter.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    I'm not sure how good of a strategy that would be.
    I'd think once you get a warning, you're done.

    Sometimes people get second warnings I guess.
    But usually fines are what follow first warnings.
    • Like Like x 6
  14. Completely Average

    Completely Average Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 21, 2014
    Suburbs of Dallas
    It's because 95% of B&Ms are run by imbeciles. Most of the ones I've walked into don't know the first thing about the products they sell. They're in the business to earn a quick buck, not because they are experienced vapers who are dedicated to their customer base. They heard that ecig sales are skyrocketing, they had some money to invest, so they jumped into the sales market. To them it's just retail sales, no different from selling groceries or clothing.

    I've been in several B&Ms recently and asked how they were going to adapt to the new regulations. After spending the next 10 minutes explaining to them what the new regulations actually are and bringing up info on my cellphone for them to read, their response is usually...

    • Like Like x 28
  15. Lessifer

    Lessifer Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I thought it was like a traffic ticket, the fine IS your first warning.
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    The owner of my local shop has three small stores in three towns in northwest Ohio. He had told me earlier that he'd been a vaper for ten years, so he surely had been around when the FDA first tried to ban e-cigarettes in 2007.

    He apparently was unaware of the FDA regulations and their implications to his business when they were announced three months ago. A few days after the regulations were released, I messaged him on his FB site on what were his thoughts about the regulations, and he messaged me back, "I don't know. I haven't really read much about it. What are your thoughts about them?"

    My thought was, my God, this is your business. Your future. Can you really be this unaware of what's going on? Did he not see a parallel of history repeating itself?

    I've since heard that he has been telling customers that he will try to keep his shop open until August 2018, when the final installments of the FDA regulations come into summation, then he will close his stores. My guess is that they will close much sooner.

    As a counterpoint to the above, my former vape shop employers in Cincinnati, Ohio (AltSmoke) have been extremely active on the political front for the last couple of years, forming a business coalition with other vape store businesses and meeting personally with state and federal representatives, representing the vape community as a whole. Kudos to Frank Cahill of AltSmoke.
    • Like Like x 10
  17. Steelgirl

    Steelgirl Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Houston, Tx
    Tobaccoanaly... is where the question is being discussed.
    • Like Like x 2
  18. AzPlumber

    AzPlumber Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2011
    Yes, but playing the odds is natural for some. The FDA will be overwhelmed when the regs hit and some might get a few more years out of thier business before getting caught the first time.
  19. Lessifer

    Lessifer Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Tobacco product "component" or rather a component of a tobacco product component.
    I'm 99.9% positive that the answer to that question is YES. JMO but if my business depended on it, I'd err on the side of "yes it's tobacco and the regulations apply."

    We can all do our internet debating, but real world, if your business and livelihood depends on it, figure it out.
    • Like Like x 7
  20. AzPlumber

    AzPlumber Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2011
    Probably is but that don't stop people from speeding either. :)
    • Like Like x 2
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