What we are up against!

[Kate]

I've seen you claim that vaping is 1-2% as harmful as smoking Bill. You have no basis for that claim, you are making figures up to suit your argument and drawing us into a dirty world of propaganda.

Anybody who behaves like ASH US with convenient made up 'facts' is not on my side.


EDIT

This is a much more tempered presentation of what we know:

"...During the interview Adrian Payne expressed cautious support for the electronic cigarette, arguing that due to the different way in which nicotine was taken in by the user the effect was likely to be two to three orders of magnitude safer than regular cigarettes. He also discussed worries over the safety of inhaling propylene glycol, stating:

"...based on current knowledge, these concerns seem vastly overplayed when compared to the risks of cigarette smoking." ..."
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/17340-e-cig-not-gateway-smoking.html

 

[Ivisi]

There isn't alot of point to going onto their forums, nor would they much advance their issue by coming here. That will lead to a good many arguements and name calling, when only the calls to the senetors really matter.

After all, no matter how hard we fight them direct, word for word, in the end it's not an actual duel or a shooting war, and they will not become less numerous.

I've started another thread with the letter I've just sent to the FDA and the members of the Senate HELP Committee. I'd post it here, but it's rather lengthy and didn't want to hijack the thread with a wall of text.

And even though I feel strongly enough about the positives of this device more than most anything I've encountered in my lifetime, enough to begin participating in debate with the government on it, I am mindful of the negatives associated with it as well. And Bill, this is where my problem with John Banzhaf and ASH lie, in that they are so blinded by their personal beliefs about anything associated with smoking and nicotine, that they immediately latch onto that belief with no consideration for the other (many) points of view on the subject. I applaud their efforts in attempting to reduce the harm that tobacco smoke has had on our society, but at the same time I hold them in contempt for the vitriolic propaganda they have put forth in regards to the E-Cigarette, and their previous work does not buy them a pass on this transgression.

Ivisi

 

[ladyraj]

In response to unwarranted criticisms of John Banzhaf at ASH, I've collaborated with John many times during the past 25 years advocating policies, laws and litigation to protect nonsmokers from tobacco smoke pollution.

John and ASH spearheaded the international smokefree policy movement more than 40 years ago, and his work has saved millions of lives.

Per John's recent request last week (due to illness), I'll be replacing John as director of the Sixth World Conference on Nonsmokers' Rights in Washington, DC, on June 6-7, 2009 at the George Washington University School of Law. I've also been an active participant at the past four of these conferences which John has organized.

Mr Bill you just couldn't resist, could you? In a place where you have been given respect as a fellow you regress to teaching a history lesson and defense of a peer while pushing the agenda. This is hardly the time or place. Good luck at the conference and I hope your friend recovers...every story needs a good villian.

 

[sherid]

Mr Bill you just couldn't resist, could you? In a place where you have been given respect as a fellow you regress to teaching a history lesson and defense of a peer while pushing the agenda. This is hardly the time or place. Good luck at the conference and I hope your friend recovers...every story needs a good villian.

You know what they say about a leopard and his spots.

 

[sherid]

Mr Bill you just couldn't resist, could you? In a place where you have been given respect as a fellow you regress to teaching a history lesson and defense of a peer while pushing the agenda. This is hardly the time or place. Good luck at the conference and I hope your friend recovers...every story needs a good villian.

Ladyraj, I am now more certain than ever that we cannot separate ourselves from the smoking population. I know that many here, for reasons I do not even wish to understand, have become almost anti-smokers since they have found a healthier alternative to tobacco cigarettes. I believe that there are some who would try to divide us further so that we become two weak groups rather than a more united one. Since you and I both post on this forum and on Dr. Siegel's blog, we see how consorting with the enemy is a very bad idea. I guess that any further discussion would best occur on the other forum.

 

[ladyraj]

Ladyraj, I am now more certain than ever that we cannot separate ourselves from the smoking population. I know that many here, for reasons I do not even wish to understand, have become almost anti-smokers since they have found a healthier alternative to tobacco cigarettes. I believe that there are some who would try to divide us further so that we become two weak groups rather than a more united one. Since you and I both post on this forum and on Dr. Siegel's blog, we see how consorting with the enemy is a very bad idea. I guess that any further discussion would best occur on the other forum.

Point taken!

 

[ArizonaVapin]

And here is why…

No flatulence study has ever been conducted on e-cigarettes. How do we know that if someone exposed to an e-cig within the past 48 hours might not be expelling toxic nicotine vapor in the form of a fart? With this unknown, it may not be safe to have your child within a 10 meter radius of e-smoker. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

All wars in America must now be put on hold! (War on terrorism, War on Drugs, and yes… even the War on Poverty, and some others I have forgotten) These issues are far less important now. E-cigs are the real threat. If we don’t stand against this evil, someone might force our kids to pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America or something. THEY MUST BE STOPPED!


....

 

[AnimeFur]

So since I am zeronic, I am as deadly as someone sneezing lemonade....

 

[Zben504]

Second hand vapor! Oh my god! How dare we get our fix with absolutely no danger to others!

 

[tim727100]

Can't say or ask that. You would really tilt the results with a modifier like "harmless". Besides, that not a known fact.

We cannot fight crusaders like these. We can crusade for our own cause, not crusade against theirs. There is a difference. Work to get the Senate to accept a new FDA category for alternative devices. Work to get the effective date changed from February 2007 to date of Senate passage.

Well said. Banzhaf and his ilk cannot be reasoned with; trying to establish any kind of dialogue with them is like an atheist speaking at a tent revival. Best to keep our heads and direct our energy toward those who make the laws.

 

[motorcity57]

i might not be the smartest man, but i know a few things. i know that if i keep smoking analog cigarettes they will probably kill me , and harm others around me. so as a 51 year old man who has smoked analog's for more than 35 years , i had to have a dbl by-pass last year, and was told by my doctor i have COPD, i have to quit smoking, well i have been trying to quit for at least 20 of those 35 already, i have watched family members and friends die from emphyzema , and cancer, and heart disease, directly related to smoking. i have tried it all, patches , pills, gums, hypnotize me, shoot i even gave the santeria guy 30 bux to do some things in his closet, that i didn't ask to many questions about. none of it worked. LOL
so this is my next attempt, the e-cigarette. this i do for me and my inspiration is to be around to watch my 10 year old son grow to adulthood. useing the e-cigarette to get off of analogs is not the ultimate goal , nicotine is an addictive substance, i consider myself an addict, just like the alcoholic, the crack-head, and the ...... junkie. my ultimate goal is to try and keep lowering the nicotine level till i get to zero. after that then i will re-evaluate if i want to continue to use the e-cigarette or not.

i am not a scientest, and i have not yet read enough or learned enough to know what effects the whole process of inhaling nicotine vapor , pg, vg, flavorings or anything else in there. it took hundreds of years to figure out analog cigarettes are killing us, i choose to with-hold judgement on if the e-cigarette is doing me or anyone else harm until there is proof positive either way.

thus with all that said, i am a realist, we are fighting an up-hill battle against many foe's. i'm sure the tobacco industry is not a fan of the e-cigarette they have lots of money and power, then the activists , like the people who this thread is about. and then our government, that doesnt really care what we do with ourselves as long as they can tax it.


LIFE IS LIKE A BOX OF CHOCOLATES, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOUR GONNA GET

 

[LaceyUnderall]

my ultimate goal is to try and keep lowering the nicotine level till i get to zero. after that then i will re-evaluate if i want to continue to use the e-cigarette or not.

Welcome to the forum MotorCity... As someone who started out on High nicotine and worked her way down to zero nic... it can be done. Sun Vaporer gave me an excellent recommendation... Get yourself bottles of both what you need and the next step down and alternate them as you see fit.

Once I got down to the low and the no... it was almost ridiculous to switch back and forth after the first few days. Now, I save my low for those days when I really need it *stress* and happily eSmoke on my no nic the rest. I do eSmoke more with the no-nicotine... but hey... I like the action of smoking. Can't win them all!

Good luck to you... you will find lots of great people up here and lots of good info on making that 0 nic juice work for you.

PS: Huge fan of the Gump myself!

 

[BFHammer]

Sorry but I see little difference between the anti smoking nuts and the Nazi's, soviets, or Maoist. They are all fanatical about their beliefs and willing to trample and destroy anyone who dares to disbelieve. The tobacco lawsuits were a travesty of justice and were a simple money grab. Most of the 2nd hand smoke "research" is as scientifically feeble as the global warming hoax research, political rather than factual. They have destroyed bars, restaurants, and imposed their convoluted belief system on the population without regard to facts and science.