What would GOOD regulation look like?

[Sgt.Rock]

Good regulations?

Mind your own frikkin' business would be my only rule.

What I do is absolutely none of the government's (or any individual's) concern...only mine.

 

[dr g]

Let's see. Ecigs are 99+% safer than cigarettes, so 99+% less regulation than cigarettes would be appropriate.

 

[David1975]

I'm all for regulations that would help keep bad products out of the market, but this makes me wonder... how many clones would be left tomorrow if this passed today? We all have our own views on the issue of cloning, however, my MAJOR issue is the use of sub-standard materials where they will be in direct contact with liquid and/or the vapor. Through talking and posting online, it surprises me how few people know the dangers is using brass, copper, chrome plating and other materials I see being used, because they are cheap or simple because it looks good. Regulating liquid if great, but if that acidic liquid leaches lead or other chemicals from an atty to be inhaled in the vape, what was the point of "safe" liquid in the first place?

 

[CMD-Ky]

It is not a fantasy when one refuses to succumb to a prevailing notion that because a thing is the way it is then it must always so. Once this country was under the tyranny of George III, then, because some refused to lay down and accept the fate dictated by the tyrant, it became free. Once Blacks rode in the back of the bus, then, because some refused to lay down and accept the fate dictated by the tyrant, they rode where they chose.
And, one might note that those who lay down in subjugation accepted and relished in the benefits gained by those who did not. I am personally very happy that there were people who did not give up their "fantasy". It is "realists" who, by accepting "reality", permit the world to be as it has always been.

PS: The money for ANTZ and "free" patches comes from me and I resent it.

The Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement is a legal decision that cannot be vacated. Where do you think the money for ANTZ comes from? Or for the free patches you can get thru public health programs?

whereas it would be nice to think that tobacco tax could be removed, that is not a realistic scenario. Let's drop the Libertarian fantasy and deal with possibilities that have more than a snowball's chance in hell.

Provided TMSA payments and tobacco tax money will continue to flow for the foreseeable future, I believe the best use of those money is put towards reducing smoking rates by encouraging vaping with subsidies to smokers.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Good regulations?

Mind your own frikkin' business would be my only rule.

What I do is absolutely none of the government's (or any individual's) concern...only mine.

Could not have said it better, Sarge.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Let's see. Ecigs are 99+% safer than cigarettes, so 99+% less regulation than cigarettes would be appropriate.

Oh, Dr G, there you go, thinking again. What might the world be like if more did so?

 

[imsoenthused]

My God, I cringe in horror at the regs that you would like to see. Why not add a subsidy for every smoker turned non-smoker by an e- cig as long as they continue to vape. I think smokers should be considered disabled and each should get an income for life and all the medicaid they can consume. Unlimited government, the only way to go. Give some Solyndra style loans to Green Smoke; tax credits for DIY shops. I am starting to like this, maybe agricultural loans (interest free) for natural organic tobacco extractors. I have not yet begun to regulate and give away.

I love your signature more than typed words in a public forum can ever possibly express.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

One should also keep in mind that no actual person is going to stand behind the person mixing your e-liquid, nor is any person going to stand behind the person building your atty, mod, or drip tip.

Even if there were, there is nothing in this world that says that person standing there is going to do a good job.

There are volumes upon volumes of regulations, from the completely esoteric to the more obvious. Speed limit regulations would be one of the more obvious examples. How often do you see folks speeding vs those who stick to the speed limit as if the world will come crashing down on them? The answer is rather clear, while speed limits are clearly posted for all to see, and police regularly patrol our streets and ticket offenders, people still speed. Get a marked police car out on the road and watch traffic literally come to a halt until that officer pulls off the highway, not a car for miles ahead, bumper to bumper behind.

Regulations don't guarantee your products will be any safer, they do guarantee your products will cost more though.

Going back to the automotive example, we who are licensed to drive all should be able to do so with a similar level of skill so as to be able to go about our drive without much worry. In fact having a license tends to have very little bearing on a persons driving skill, some folks just plain suck at it. Some people do the unexpected, some people just don't give a hoot about anyone but themselves. I'm 100% sure BT will get their license, and they are direct kin to those who drop their cell phone while texting and driving and go about looking for it as they blow by at 100mph late to work. They are going to kill someone, they could kill someone with crayons if they got into making them.

Maurice

 

[imsoenthused]

One should also keep in mind that no actual person is going to stand behind the person mixing your e-liquid, nor is any person going to stand behind the person building your atty, mod, or drip tip.

Even if there were, there is nothing in this world that says that person standing there is going to do a good job.

There are volumes upon volumes of regulations, from the completely esoteric to the more obvious. Speed limit regulations would be one of the more obvious examples. How often do you see folks speeding vs those who stick to the speed limit as if the world will come crashing down on them? The answer is rather clear, while speed limits are clearly posted for all to see, and police regularly patrol our streets and ticket offenders, people still speed. Get a marked police car out on the road and watch traffic literally come to a halt until that officer pulls off the highway, not a car for miles ahead, bumper to bumper behind.

Regulations don't guarantee your products will be any safer, they do guarantee your products will cost more though.

Going back to the automotive example, we who are licensed to drive all should be able to do so with a similar level of skill so as to be able to go about our drive without much worry. In fact having a license tends to have very little bearing on a persons driving skill, some folks just plain suck at it. Some people do the unexpected, some people just don't give a hoot about anyone but themselves. I'm 100% sure BT will get their license, and they are direct kin to those who drop their cell phone while texting and driving and go about looking for it as they blow by at 100mph late to work. They are going to kill someone, they could kill someone with crayons if they got into making them.

Maurice

Exactly, if Freddy Kreuger spoke out against lead paint in children's toys it wouldn't be less hypocritical. Doesn't matterer though. I strongly doubt anyone in the mainstream media will call them on their BS.

 

[rondasherrill]

Halleluiah, you. iffy, are a breathe of fresh air in this thread of unlimited government, "reasonable regulation" and the belief that government know best.

Personally I would love a zero regulations future for e-cigs, but, at least in America, we all know how this is going to go. Moving forward the government will take one of two paths: banning, or regulation + taxation. If the government deems e-cigarettes to be a profitable venture, then they will choose the latter option.

Personally, I think that hardware is relatively safe. "Oh, e-cigarettes have a huge tax on them? Well, this isn't an e-cigarette. It's a flashlight with a detachable head." See: Tobacco shops calling loose tobacco "pipe tobacco", even though it is obviously not.

E-Liquid with nicotine is where the questions come. Regulations I would like:
1. External QA testing.
2. Rules on proper packaging.
3. Age Restriction.(Kids who don't smoke shouldn't vape either, and just like cigarettes, if they want it, the ones who want it will get it)
Actually that's about it as far as I would like.

Regulations I foresee(because e-cigarettes are becoming more and more potentially profitable as time goes on):
1. Restrictions on who can purchase the nic base(merchants only kind of thing)
2. Taxes similarly high like with tobacco products
3. Etc...
4. Etc...(my mind isn't working at the moment, but it'll be crazy)

 

[Caffeine7]

a good regulation would regulating the regulators.

 

[bulldog63h]

*disclaimer, Haven't read entire post yet.* The only good regulation I can think of is the government staying the hell out of our personal affairs. I'm supposed to be a free man living in a free nation, yet the government tells me what is acceptable to say, own, put in my body etc. laws against murder, rape and other things of that nature are understandable, but the government has overstepped it's bounds way to far and way to often. Of course, I am an anarchist so take this post for what it's worth.

 

[AndriaD]

*disclaimer, Haven't read entire post yet.* The only good regulation I can think of is the government staying the hell out of our personal affairs. I'm supposed to be a free man living in a free nation, yet the government tells me what is acceptable to say, own, put in my body etc. laws against murder, rape and other things of that nature are understandable, but the government has overstepped it's bounds way to far and way to often. Of course, I am an anarchist so take this post for what it's worth.

I also favor anarchy, and letting natural selection weed out the irretrievably stupid.

Andria

 

[Nermal]

I would be happy with some labeling requirements. State the percentages of pg/vg, and the nicotine concentration. Can't think of much else that couldn't and wouldn't be abused.

 

[williebb123]

good regulation in my mind would be an all out ban of big tobacco companies being able to make ecigs

 

[CMD-Ky]

I love your signature more than typed words in a public forum can ever possibly express.

Thank you! The signature is a heartfelt thought, grown out of several years of watching and thinking about the controlling urges of so many people. If any behavior or prohibition of behavior seems to be a good idea to them, it must become a rule that all must follow. Every "good idea" (without conceding that ninety percent of these "good ideas" are unadulterated crap) need not be made a law, a regulation or carry a criminal sanction.

 

[Bunnykiller]

There really isn't much in eliquid. I am surprised more people don't try it. Nic/pg/vg and a bit of flavoring. People are making fortunes off of this stuff it's amazing. If you can boil water you can make eliquid.

must not be that easy, for if it was everyone would be making their own and there would be no MBV, HHV... etc

 

[Bunnykiller]

as far as regulation.... the only thing I would approve of is no nic sales to minors....
odd but I have no issue with 0 nic juice sales to under 18....
were letting 15 y/o's drive vehicles..... they are probably "mature" enuf to do that...

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I also favor anarchy, and letting natural selection weed out the irretrievably stupid.

Andria

Andria, if I may loosely quote you....

let natural selection weed out the irretrievably stupid.

is quite possibly the best thing I've read in a very long time.

Keeping irretrievably stupid people around is how politicians stay in business, develop a fear that only the stupid will buy into, convince the stupid masses that only you can protect them from this evil, and use the stupid vote to win elections. Job security at its best.

Maurice

 

[AndriaD]

must not be that easy, for if it was everyone would be making their own and there would be no MBV, HHV... etc

You're right; the hardest part is finding good flavors, and to do that, you have to order and then test them in a mix. Some people apparently get lucky right off the bat, so to them, it's easy. My first DIY outing was FlavourArts' "Virginia" which smells and tastes like celery that's been so long in the crisper it's starting to liquefy -- nasty! It put me off trying DIY again for several months, it was so awful. But, I finally got brave enough to try again, and got some Virginia and Golden Virginia flavors from TobaccoExpress -- no rotten celery! But they still weren't *quite* right until I got some "Bitter Wizard" -- THAT made all the difference.

So, it's not HARD to DIY, but neither is it as easy as boiling water -- you've got to have the right flavors, and know how to combine them -- a lot like cooking -- and a LOT of people can't do that, even if they THINK they can.

Andria