What would GOOD regulation look like?

[AndriaD]

That's partially correct, in my opinion. Children do have access to cigarettes in the face of regulation. But without any restrictions, child smoking might be out of control like this: VICE on HBO Season One: Addiction (Episode 7) - YouTube

I dont think age restrictions is a perfect measure, but it's better than no restrictions/regulations.

What would be best is if underaged people could get e-cigs by prescription from their doctor, even if it was for the limited purpose of NRT -- which would at least cover young people who want to stop smoking, until they are of age. I started smoking when I was 13, and my parents knew it by the time I was 15, and though they didn't condone it, they were both smokers who understood that it was an addiction, so they put up with it, but if something like e-cigs had been available, I feel quite sure they would have insisted on it, rather than on merely switching to "Lights," from full-flavor.

Andria

 

[Armerah]

Some regulation already exists by default such as CHIP standards for e-liquid packaging and CE approval for electronic components. Plus it is already illegal to sell these products to under 18s. But overall your list makes sense.

 

[klynnn]

There really isn't much in eliquid. I am surprised more people don't try it. Nic/pg/vg and a bit of flavoring. People are making fortunes off of this stuff it's amazing. If you can boil water you can make eliquid.

 

[JohnnyBGoode]

The part that should be regulated is sales to minors and only for nicotine containing products. Even that is of questionable use as minors smoke cigarettes all the same but at least the general point should be clear that it is intended for adults.
Any other regulation put in place will have little to do with safety, just controlling and shaping the market. The idea that policy makers have our good health in mind, I have long lost. Any food regulations usually only came in place because people ended up in hospital, not because of some preemptive thinking of a government official.

With the by now several million probably of vapers, the amount of injured or died due to vaping being so low, there is no justification for any other measures for now.
It is a bit like regulating spoons, yes somebody gets hurt by a spoon or might even be killed with a spoon from time to time but in general spoons are deemed a rather safe object to use.

 

[crxess]

Regulation #1
As a Responsible person, do Your part to make things better.

Stop relying on others to do so for you. The more you Rely on others, the less you will have of your own in the end.

This country has been regulated into the Toilet - And I'm not just talking e-cigs.

 

[FattyJ]

All I want is objective testing of inhalation of the different flavorings/sweeteners added to e-juice and some sort of reasonable regulation of e-juice companies having to only used tested and proven safe ingredients or list a disclaimer if you don't use proven safe ingredients.

 

[tj99959]

OK, I'll bite

I'm quite sure that in the UK you have the equivalent of the US Consumer Protection Agency. How is it that you could have had 9 fires & 1 death in one city, and that inferior ego clone hasn't been recalled?

Think about it

 

[DrMA]

So, I was having a discussion with an ANTZ at work about potential fallout of the TPD in the UK and he collared me and asked what I would want to see regulated. So here's my list. I sort of think that it's a side of the conversation I haven't seen from a more experienced and wider variety of vapers before.

Batteries - By which I mean any device with an in built or proprietary battery including MVP's
Proof that batteries can stand up to the limits of the device - similar to mobile phone standards.
Possibly safety features like vent holes, collapsing springs etc. mandatory

e-juice
Proof of quality and quantity of ingredients within tolerances similar to ingredients in food and beverages
Possible restriction of ingredients where health risks are evidenced (Some day we'll find a flavouring that is carcinogenic at vaping temperatures)

Tanks/Clearo's/Carts
No toxic or reactive ingredients

APVs
Limited to properties of batteries where installed, included or propietary
Clear documentation of limits of device provided at POS (can be electronic where e-sales are used)

Mechs
I don't know enough to really speak here but probably safety features like vent holes/collapsing springs mandatory.

Coils
List of banned wicking materials to include asbestos (again some materials will be bad for us as wicks and they should be banned)

So would there be any issue with any of these regulations? Any other regulations that would improve vaping for us all without doing too much harm?

These looks like reasonable regulations to me, though redundant with existing regs for general consumer goods, electronics, and food safety. The one possible exception is eliquid, which should probably follow food-safety guidelines as far as labeling and preparation facilities, but have additional safeguards based on scientific evidence for compounds potentially hazardous when inhaled (re: alpha diketones such as diacetyl and acetyl propionyl).

However, the regs I'd really like to see implemented are:
- subsidies for vaping equipment and eliquids offered to smokers, funded from TMSA and tobacco tax revenue (similar to the incentive programs available for NRT)
- specific legal language that defines vapers as non-smokers for all purposes, including health insurance
- anti-discrimination laws protecting vapers' rights to employment, housing, access to services, etc.
- mandates for the use of TMSA revenue for public service announcements (similar to anti-smoking ads) informing the public about the health benefits of quitting smoking by switching to vaping

 

[skoony]

in my world regulations would be pretty straight forward.

batteries: batteries are pretty much made to good existing standards.
the only change i would like to see is an addition to the ratings listed
on the battery.
a new listing, safe recommended continuous discharge rate.
not to be confused with maximum continuous discharge rate.

tanks,rba's,cartridges,clearomizers,drip tips wicks and,coils.
basically the thingy that holds the e-juice.
materials should be non reactive with the juice.
with today's modern manufacturing techniques all these things can be made
in mass quantities to such exacting standards as to make only the most rudimentary
testing requirements necessary. ie.,is it made out of the material stated.
contrary to RJR's letter to the FDA excellent quality control exists now in this
category.

e-juice: this is where the FDA is stepping on its own foot.
aside from perhaps gourmet or specialty makers,most of the juice us folks use has only
4 ingredients. 5 if you count water.
seeing almost if not all juice manufacturers and the DIY'ers all clam to be using
FDA pharmaceutical or food grade ingredients just require these things come from
FDA approved sources. they have already passed the FDA standards. there is no need for further
redundant testing.there is no need to process the nicotine to get more or less nicotine as
is required by tobacco to meet the strict requirements.
all facilities meet local food production sanitary requirements.
as far as the actual manufacturing process,lets face it. it isn't rocket science.
get the measurements right and mix.if you can get a box of cake mix and successfully make
a cake you are already dealing with more variables than making juice.

packaging requirements would include accurate listing of ingredients and appropriate safety precautions.
one such precaution,do not swallow,let your child swallow and,heaven forgive you if you let your pet
swallow this stuff.
child safety caps. i don't think they are needed when appropriate precautions are used but i can live
with it.i have 5 grand kids to help me get those pesky things off.

lastly age restrictions.

anything more than this i think would be over burdensome.
but this is my world.

if only i where king regards,
mike

 

[Bernard Marx]

If there were a few basic regulations then miscreants could be held accountable. This is one way of keeping large corporations sort of responsible.

 

[caged]

We don't need anything major. Maybe mandatory protection on mech mods and better communication from the makers of PVs about minimum acceptable amp ratings for the batteries you use. I was really disgusted with a local shop who pushed a mech mod and an RBA to someone who obviously wasn't ready to deal with it. Mech mods should not be pushed -- the customer should ask for one and the sale should come with a lecture if the customer is new to mech mods.

 

[Iffy]

I do hope that ya'll get all da regulations ya want! Oh, wait... ya mean ya didn't want dat one, or dis other one? How 'bout dis one?

As fer moi, I'm fine and don't need your regulations. Just leave me da frack alone!!!

Gotta luv slippery slopes...

 

[CMD-Ky]

My God, I cringe in horror at the regs that you would like to see. Why not add a subsidy for every smoker turned non-smoker by an e- cig as long as they continue to vape. I think smokers should be considered disabled and each should get an income for life and all the medicaid they can consume. Unlimited government, the only way to go. Give some Solyndra style loans to Green Smoke; tax credits for DIY shops. I am starting to like this, maybe agricultural loans (interest free) for natural organic tobacco extractors. I have not yet begun to regulate and give away.

These looks like reasonable regulations to me, though redundant with existing regs for general consumer goods, electronics, and food safety. The one possible exception is eliquid, which should probably follow food-safety guidelines as far as labeling and preparation facilities, but have additional safeguards based on scientific evidence for compounds potentially hazardous when inhaled (re: alpha diketones such as diacetyl and acetyl propionyl).

However, the regs I'd really like to see implemented are:
- subsidies for vaping equipment and eliquids offered to smokers, funded from TMSA and tobacco tax revenue (similar to the incentive programs available for NRT)
- specific legal language that defines vapers as non-smokers for all purposes, including health insurance
- anti-discrimination laws protecting vapers' rights to employment, housing, access to services, etc.
- mandates for the use of TMSA revenue for public service announcements (similar to anti-smoking ads) informing the public about the health benefits of quitting smoking by switching to vaping

 

[CMD-Ky]

This has worked every time it has been tried; it's why the country is in such great shape. More government, more regulation, what a way to go.

If there were a few basic regulations then miscreants could be held accountable. This is one way of keeping large corporations sort of responsible.

 

[DrMA]

My God, I cringe in horror at the regs that you would like to see. Why not add a subsidy for every smoker turned non-smoker by an e- cig as long as they continue to vape. I think smokers should be considered disabled and each should get an income for life and all the medicaid they can consume. Unlimited government, the only way to go. Give some Solyndra style loans to Green Smoke; tax credits for DIY shops. I am starting to like this, maybe agricultural loans (interest free) for natural organic tobacco extractors. I have not yet begun to regulate and give away.

What was I thinking? You're right, all that TMSA and tobacco tax money is much better put to use in subsidies to oil companies and tax breaks for millionaires.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Halleluiah, you. iffy, are a breathe of fresh air in this thread of unlimited government, "reasonable regulation" and the belief that government know best.

I do hope that ya'll get all da regulations ya want! Oh, wait... ya mean ya didn't want dat one, or dis other one? How 'bout dis one?

As fer moi, I'm fine and don't need your regulations. Just leave me da frack alone!!!

Gotta luv slippery slopes...

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Cigarettes are regulated, let's just smoke those, they must be safe because regulation exists for that product.

Let's not kid ourselves, regulations are not our friend, the authority that seeks to regulate us has a less than stellar track record of regulating products so as to be safe for consumer use.

Let's just for the sake of conversation say that in lieu of regulation they (government so in so's) just tax e-cigarette products, or the companies in some form or another. They can recover their income to some extent, and use the money to fund research into inhalation of vapor etc. and bla bla bla.

While this is as much a form of regulation as any other, it keeps control of development in the hands of those who created this. Everyone is or will be on a level playing field.

Kind of like machine guns, you can have them, pass a federal proctology exam and pay for your tax stamp and bam! You can own that M60-E3 you have always wanted,,,,,,,the MG only costs around $15,000.00 but hey, you can do this.

My thought is this, we are going to have regulation, I'd rather it be just in the form of a tax rather than a tax and nothing but product from BT and BP because no other company can spend the billions needed to bring a product to market under the proposed regulations.

Maurice

 

[DaveP]

The sad part is that Big Tobacco is coaching the FDA and trying to convince them to ban ALL atomizers that can be refilled. They are obviously using the premise that anything that is refillable is subject to contamination and able to be used for contraband vaping (think DEA outlawed products).

Naturally, they are paving the way for them to be the only supplier of electronic cigarettes and supplies. I guess they want us to buy cartons and batteries and stop by the store for a pack of atomizer cartridges every morning.

Does anyone think that BT won't put the same chemicals in juice that they added to cigarettes to make the habit more addictive? I wouldn't vape anything made by a cigarette company. If it's all controlled like BT wants it to be, I will be a total DIY vaper.

The good part is that mods and batteries and probably most tanks and unfilled cartos will be classified as non-nicotine containing devices and won't come under the FDA's umbrella. Juice will be the sticking point as far as the FDA is concerned.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Surely you jest? Why not just eliminate the tobacco tax and the TMSA ( what ever that maybe) then you would not need to spend the money anywhere and the government might just leave us alone. Eliminate all subsidies funded by the tax payer, simplify the tax code - who knows, we all may proper. Or, we could continue the path to unlimited government, it has worked so far.

What was I thinking? You're right, all that TMSA and tobacco tax money is much better put to use in subsidies to oil companies and tax breaks for millionaires.

 

[DrMA]

TMSA ( what ever that maybe)

The Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement is a legal decision that cannot be vacated. Where do you think the money for ANTZ comes from? Or for the free patches you can get thru public health programs?

whereas it would be nice to think that tobacco tax could be removed, that is not a realistic scenario. Let's drop the Libertarian fantasy and deal with possibilities that have more than a snowball's chance in hell.

Provided TMSA payments and tobacco tax money will continue to flow for the foreseeable future, I believe the best use of those money is put towards reducing smoking rates by encouraging vaping with subsidies to smokers.