You can get food flavorings from Capella directly, they have no intention of stopping that. Not that this topic is moot, but I believe there is no way to deny anyone access to food flavorings.
What's everyones thoughts on freezing flavoring
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It's a very good suggestion but can become expensive and to some may be over kill but to others it's a very good viable consideration.
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No shame in that at all and for some tobacco flavored cupcakes is a great alternative to smoking
No shame in that at all and for some tobacco flavored cupcakes is a great alternative to smoking
Well, some shame anyway. Sometimes I forget this fight isn't all about me! lol
These caps have no rubber in them.
18-400 Round Phenolic Black Continuous Thread Closure | Glass Bottles, Jars, Closures & More | Packaging Options Direct
18-400 Round Phenolic Black Continuous Thread Closure | Glass Bottles, Jars, Closures & More | Packaging Options Direct
Those are what i use on all my flavor bottles.I have some that have been in use for over 2 years,and no issues at all with those caps and any of the flavors that i have.
Hi Danny,
From what little I have read, synthetics will not really benefit from cold (fridge/freezer) storage, though it shouldn't hurt either (other than possible crystallization as the WL statement mentioned; and that is generally reversible after bringing back to room temp.).
I believe Dr. Kurt Kestler ( @Kurt here on ECF) (who is a chemist at Penn State - Brandywine), in the VPLive Vape Team Episode #82 (I think you've referenced this in other posts), talked a bit about this. And his position was (this is my recollection and Kurt is not responsible for my possible misrepresentation): that as long as (synthetic) flavorings are stored in in glass, with a good cap (like a poly cone cap), as little headspace as reasonably possible, and kept in a cool dark place (like a closet, cupboard, or drawer), the flavoring is possible to last indefinitely. He does say there will be a flavor "change" as the volatile compounds escape (minimized with glass and cap but will still occur each time the cap is opened and can be accelerated by excessive headspace). He offer no opinion on organics as he does not condone their use (too many sugars and compounds with combustion points too low for recommended safe vaping).
I have no personal experience with organics other than one tobacco absolute (TA). I do keep the concentrated paste in the refrigerator but I keep the 15mL dilution at room temp with my other flavorings. I tried refrigerating the dilution, but it separated way too quickly, and it was difficult to shake back into the base. It still separates at room temp but can quickly be shaken back into suspension.
I have no scientific basis for storing the TA concentrate in the fridge. But, I reasoned that it is a derivative from plant matter, and therefore I was concerned about spoilage (and I just haven't had the guts to try freezing it yet).
Thanks for another interesting topic and the invitation to share!
Separation would be my primary concern. But this may be mitigated if it can be readily reintroduced back into suspension once returned to room temp (like EM),
My understanding is, that with synthetic flavorings, the primary cause of flavor change/loss is due to loss of volatile compounds and not oxidation. However, organic flavorings may indeed be effected by both oxidation and volatile compound loss.
I agree, a good cap/seal, along with glass preferred to plastic {bottles}, will give you the best opportunity to retain volatile compounds.
I agree Danny; when talking about synthetic flavorings. I'm not as sure when talking about organic flavorings. Something is sticking in the back of my head that some compounds that can be found in organics can indeed oxidize. But I have nothing I can offer to to back this up other than a lot pertaining to food spoilage revolves around exposure to air, light, and heat. I Just have no idea what is removed, and what is left, in regards to making organic/natural flavorings.
I agree that a vacuum would provide minimum chance of oxidation (reactive material can still react with any free oxygen in solution; but the addition of cold will slow this reaction). My concern with vacuum is that I would think this would also accelerate the loss of volatile compounds. But, again, I have nothing to support this thought.
If true, I imagine you would have to balance the benefit of removing an oxygen source against the loss of volatile compounds.
I believe Dr. Kurt Kestler ( @Kurt here on ECF) (who is a chemist at Penn State - Brandywine), in the VPLive Vape Team Episode #82 (I think you've referenced this in other posts), talked a bit about this. And his position was (this is my recollection and Kurt is not responsible for my possible misrepresentation): that as long as (synthetic) flavorings are stored in in glass, with a good cap (like a poly cone cap), as little headspace as reasonably possible, and kept in a cool dark place (like a closet, cupboard, or drawer), the flavoring is possible to last indefinitely. He does say there will be a flavor "change" as the volatile compounds escape (minimized with glass and cap but will still occur each time the cap is opened and can be accelerated by excessive headspace). He offer no opinion on organics as he does not condone their use (too many sugars and compounds with combustion points too low for recommended safe vaping).
Another very good point. I do remember that segment on vplive.
Thanks for starting the thread Danny, this topic has been on my mind a bit recently.
I've only being DIY'ing for a year and I haven't had any flavoring for more than a few months so I don't really have anything to contribute to the conversation.
What I've taken from it so far is that I should transfer all my flavorings to dark glass bottles, so I'll be putting in an order for bottles next week. And avoid opening bottles too often. That suggests a system like we use for nicotine. Keep large bottles for long term storage. And when you need to start on a large bottle, break it down into several small bottles. Open each small bottle 10 times rather than opening a large bottle 200 times. That would work for me because I've settled on a small number of flavors I use. It would be a pain to do that routine if you had 100 flavors.
I've seen comments from several vendors that putting flavoring in a fridge or freezer isn't a good idea. They are better just stored at cool room temp. I don't recall if anyone explained why. Problem with the cool temp thing is that with furnace A/C systems everywhere in the house tends to be at the same temp.
It does seem like there isn't a single rule for every flavor. Maybe some would keep better in a fridge or freezer, and some would be better at room temp. I don't see how we are going to get a list anytime of the best storage method for each flavor. Maybe over time people will have kept flavors for long periods in different conditions and we will start to build up useful information. Maybe just for groups of flavors, like fruits behave differently from tobacco or whatever.
I've only being DIY'ing for a year and I haven't had any flavoring for more than a few months so I don't really have anything to contribute to the conversation.
What I've taken from it so far is that I should transfer all my flavorings to dark glass bottles, so I'll be putting in an order for bottles next week. And avoid opening bottles too often. That suggests a system like we use for nicotine. Keep large bottles for long term storage. And when you need to start on a large bottle, break it down into several small bottles. Open each small bottle 10 times rather than opening a large bottle 200 times. That would work for me because I've settled on a small number of flavors I use. It would be a pain to do that routine if you had 100 flavors.
I've seen comments from several vendors that putting flavoring in a fridge or freezer isn't a good idea. They are better just stored at cool room temp. I don't recall if anyone explained why. Problem with the cool temp thing is that with furnace A/C systems everywhere in the house tends to be at the same temp.
It does seem like there isn't a single rule for every flavor. Maybe some would keep better in a fridge or freezer, and some would be better at room temp. I don't see how we are going to get a list anytime of the best storage method for each flavor. Maybe over time people will have kept flavors for long periods in different conditions and we will start to build up useful information. Maybe just for groups of flavors, like fruits behave differently from tobacco or whatever.
I would not freeze flavouring or pre-mixed juice ... for the sole reason, we already know freezing has an adverse effect on some flavours, such as loss or alteration of flavour.
Therefore, if testing flavours for freezing ... only test what you can afford to lose.
Therefore, if testing flavours for freezing ... only test what you can afford to lose.
Thanks for the thread bump, Danny. I'm sure there's a lot of us out here, concerned with storing flavors long term.
The flavors I have in the freezer are in VG or PG and won't freeze in my homes freezer, just stored at a colder temp and all have remained liquid.
Let us know if you see any separation or crystallization. Keep us updated.
I ordered a bunch of 5ml glass vials of Nude Nicotine's Honey Tobacco (made w/tobacco absolute). I stored 5 of them in my freezer and the other 2 in the fridge - the thing about any flavoring made using a tobacco absolute is that they separate no matter how they are stored. I was told by a mixologist I know that even clear flavorings can separate and that all flavorings should be shaken before usage. I store all my mixes in the fridge and just sorta roll the glass bottles before refilling tanks - so far this works for me.
Great info here and what I've taken from it is. It's not nessessary to refrigerate or freeze but the most important aspect of conserving freshness is rebottling in glass. I purchased 100 or so 10ml clear glass test viles as well as 100 8ml glass test viles about 2 years ago and found I only use 10 bottles at max when making my test samples. So the other 190 or so I have I can now put to good use rebottleing my flavorings. Now being I keep my flavorings in large dark plastic boxes in a dark cabinet in a temperature and humidity controlled room (Air conditioned/heated) it don't much matter that the bottles are clear. So for the many 10ml flavorings I have I'm all set. I just need to get some larger bottles for my 50ml hangsen flavorings. Nice thing to is my recent purchases of larger quantities of NON-Hangsen flavorings came in glass bottles so I'm all set there as well. Also many of my flavors in plastic bottles have never been opened and are still shrink wrapped so I'm pondering if I should rebottle them or not.
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If you have the glass to re-bottle Danny; I don't know why you wouldn't. With what we know about plastics (?) being susceptible to oxygen transference/permeability; I would hazard to guess this would have a high likelihood of being true for shrink wrapping as well. Also, is the shrink wrap just around the cap and collar, or completely sealing the entire bottle? I would doubt it is offering much additional benefit if it is only cap and collar.
Of course, if you expect to use them up in the short term, there would probably be little benefit gained by repackaging in glass.
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