What's up with all the China hate?

[Rin13]

I've purchased from fasttech several times and while some things I can tell aren't the greatest quality and others are fine. It's just one of those things where you get what you pay for. Morality wise, I honestly don't care where the product comes from as long as the quality is good. Most of these e-cig products are made in China anyway and are resold here... so not sure where people get off calling it garbage?

 

[Lombaowski]

For anyone who really does believe (and I find it hard to believe there are many of you with logic that do) that U.S. vendors are above reproach in the ejuice business, let's look at food recalls in the U.S. over the past 90 days (link).

Date Brand Name Product Description Reason/ Problem Company Details/ Photo
09/26/2013 Safeway Angel Food Cakes Undeclared milk and soy Safeway Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/21/2013 Market Pantry, Archer Farms, D'Amico And Sons, Roundy's, more Salads, slaw, and dip products Listeria monocytogenes Garden Fresh Foods, Inc Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/19/2013 Wegmans Apple Cinnamon Mini Muffins Undeclared soy Wegmans Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/18/2013 P.F. Chang's Frozen Appetizers Undeclared fish and shellfish Conagra Foods Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/16/2013 Semifreddi's Biscotti Undeclared milk and soy Semifreddi's Inc. Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/12/2013 Dutch Valley Food Distributors, Inc. Honey Roasted Peanuts Undeclared Milk and Wheat Dutch Valley Food Distributors, Inc. Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/11/2013 Schwebel Baking Company Golden Rich Buns with Honey Undeclared Eggs SCHWEBEL BAKING COMPANY Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/09/2013 Talenti Talenti German Chocolate Cake Gelato Undeclared Almonds Talenti® Gelato & Sorbetto Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/09/2013 First Street Bakery Blueberry Muffin 14oz and Blueberry Loaf Cake 16oz. Undeclared Milk and Soy Bubbles Baking Company Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/06/2013 Pillsbury Pillsbury Cinnamon Rolls with Icing Pieces of Plastic General Mills
Date Brand Name Product Description Reason/ Problem Company Details/ Photo
09/05/2013 Olde Cape Cod Olde Cape Cod Chipotle Ranch Salad Dressing, 16 oz Undeclared Milk and Egg Cains Foods Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/05/2013 Chobani Greek yogurt products Reports of bloated, swelled product Chobani, Inc. Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
09/03/2013 GoPicnic Brands Professor Zim Zam’s Extraordinary Sweets Dark Chocolate with Orange and Dark Chocolate with Sea salt Undeclared Milk GoPicnic Brands, Inc. Select to View Firm Press Release
08/30/2013 Spartan Fresh Selections Spartan Fresh Selections American Potato Salad Listeria monocytogenes Garden-Fresh Foods, Inc. Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/28/2013 Williams-Sonoma Meyer Lemon Braising Base, 40-Clove Garlic Chicken Braising Base, Tagine Sauce, Artichoke Pecorino Sauce Undeclared Milk, Soy, Wheat Premier Foods, LLC Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/27/2013 Amport Amport Milk Chocolate Raisins, 12 oz clear tub Undeclared peanuts American Importing Co Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/25/2013 Kroger's Break 'N Bake Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Undeclared Peanuts ConAgra Foods Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/24/2013 Dove Chocolate Discoveries Dark Chocolate-Covered Fruit Collection Undeclared Tree Nuts Dove Chocolate Discoveries Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/23/2013 Reaction Nutrition LLC LIVE CLINICAL 90 CAPS Undeclared Milk (bovine colostrum powder) Reaction Nutrition LLC Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/18/2013 See's Candies Dark Chocolate Blueberries Undeclared Milk See's Candies Inc.
08/17/2013 Buurma Farms Cilantro Listeria monocytogenes Buurma Farms Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/16/2013 Justin’s Maple almond butter; Chocolate hazelnut butter Metal fragments Justin’s Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/15/2013 Whole Foods market Blueberry Crostata Undeclared egg ingredient Whole Foods Market Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/12/2013 Terri Lynn Inc. Deluxe Mixed Nuts May contain peanuts Terri Lynn Inc. Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
08/06/2013 Heeren Brothers Produce Athena Cantaloupes Listeria monocytogenes Heeren Brothers Produce Select to View Firm Press Release
08/06/2013 Baltic Treasures, Norwegian Style Matjes, Marinella Delicatessnaya, more Herring fillets in oil Listeria monocytogenes Gold Star Smoked Fish Corp. Select to View Firm Press Release
08/05/2013 ZIP International Group Baltic Sprats Listeria monocytogenes ZIP International Group LLC Select to View Firm Press Release
08/02/2013 Ginger Candy Ginger Candy Elevated lead Evershing International Trading, Inc. Select to View Firm Press Release Select to View Image of Product Label
07/31/2013 Trois Comtois Morbier Trois Comtois Morbier cheese Listeria monocytogenes Whole Foods Marke

Lots of U.S. companies in there, lots of them. How many times have you gotten Pillsbury products that were dangerous? Probably never right? Well the above recall doesn't mean Pillsbury is trying to kill your kids with shards of plastic in little Johnnies cinnamon rolls, it means even a company of their ilk makes mistakes.

EJuice has lots of ingredients, a process, and many people involved in that process. People make mistakes both intentionally and unintentionally, but they do make mistakes. I'm quite certain the FDA will have samples of ejuice from hundreds of ejuice makers, and almost guarantee we will hear about some of those mistakes.

 

[cookiebun]

Iz2sick I believe Dwarfcat was referring to the poisoned milk and baby formula products I mentioned in my own post as well.
2008 Chinese milk scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I saw Chinese parent's on the news stating they were afraid to feed their kids food stuffs from China.
That comment wasn't offensive, it was the sad truth.

 

[stevegmu]

My car is Korean.

If it is a Hyundai, odds are it is assembled in Alabama.

 

[iz2sick]

Iz2sick I believe Dwarfcat was referring to the poisoned milk and baby formula products I mentioned in my own post as well.
2008 Chinese milk scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I saw Chinese parent's on the news stating they were afraid to feed their kids food stuffs from China.
That comment wasn't offensive, it was the sad truth.

Doesn't matter. My comment was still relevant.

And to reply to the actual meaning then...

Should I start posting links about the various contamination issues we've had with our foods in America as well? Mad Cow for starters?

 

[cookiebun]

If it is a Hyundai, odds are it is assembled in Alabama.

Nope, Kia. But the first model year after they were bought by Hyundai. It says on the door that it was made in Korea.
It's been a GREAT car.

 

[flowerpots]

We harm our children with foodstuffs too - feeding them McDonald's, GMO's, pink sludge in school meals, corn syrup in everything leading to many medical conditions, endless junk food supplied to kids who don't get exercise anymore or play outside like older generations did. It took evidence of cancer to have asbestos removed from school insulation years ago. Lead in pencils was common at one time. We have our skeletons.

 

[Lombaowski]

A U.S. company tried to kill me for 20 years, it's called Phillip Morris USA. Anyone heard of it?

 

[iz2sick]

We harm our children with foodstuffs too - feeding them McDonald's, GMO's, pink sludge in school meals, corn syrup in everything leading to many medical conditions, endless junk food supplied to kids who don't get exercise anymore or play outside like older generations did. It took evidence of cancer to have asbestos removed from school insulation years ago. Lead in pencils was common at one time. We have our skeletons.

Please don't use the initialism "GMO" in an accusatory manner.

I already know you're going to go down the Monsanto path. Monsanto is a business that abuses the practice of GMing foods. We can start another thread about this if you'd like, but it's one of my biggest pet peeves right now in relation to misinformation.

 

[Asbestos4004]

We harm our children with foodstuffs too - feeding them McDonald's, GMO's, pink sludge in school meals, corn syrup in everything leading to many medical conditions, endless junk food supplied to kids who don't get exercise anymore or play outside like older generations did. It took evidence of cancer to have asbestos removed from school insulation years ago. Lead in pencils was common at one time. We have our skeletons.

Schools are still full of Asbestos...it's really actually kinda hard to hurt yourself with it. China still mines asbestos and uses it it building materials. Some of them still sneak their way into our country...but the label will read "this product may contain naturally occurring fiber".

 

[ScottP]

okay, this may be a dumb, already common knowledge question, but what makes nicotine vaping-safe?

So what is the “juice” in ecigarettes really made out of?

1. Propylene Glycol – PG has been used as the aqueous-based chemical additive in asthma inhalers and nebulizers since the 1950s, with no serious side effects known. PG, because of its water-retaining properties, is the compound of choice for delivering atomized medication. It is also a common diluent for injectable medications, constituting 40 percent of the intravenous form of Phenytoin, an anti-seizure drug. The FDA includes Propylene glycol on its list of substances Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS), and it meets the requirements of acceptable compounds within Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations. Considering PG has been widely used for many years without serious side effects, the substance can reasonably said to be of negligible concern.

2. Vegetable Glycerine – VG is one of the most benign organic liquids known to man. It is hypo-allergenic, non-carcinigeic, non teratogenic and non-mutagenic. It is metabolized quite easily by a process called beta-oxidation. This process results in the production of CO2 and H2O and is a quite normal, common, and natural catabolic process. VG is of low toxicity when ingested, inhaled, or in contact with skin. The most common noted side effect of inhalation of e-liquid containing vegetable glycerin is a dry mouth, sore throat, and increased thirst. These symptoms usually last just a few days to a week as the body gets used to the vegetable glycerin.

3. Flavorings – All flavorings used are already approved by the FDA for use in the foods we eat. Anytime you smell food made with these flavors, you are inhaling it. There is NO WAY to smell something that you have not inhaled since it has to pass through your nose on the way to your lungs to smell it. Since these have been used for years, if inhalation was a problem, we would already know about it.

4. Nicotine – Since this is the primary addictive agent in analogs this is WHY most people turn to vaping instead of quitting cold turkey. It is NOT known to be a carcinogen and is found in nearly every stop smoking aid including the gum, patches, and lozenges. It is also found naturally in other foods such as tomatoes, and various peppers. While not necessarily safe, it is approved by the FDA in the foods that contain it naturally and even for long term use in other nicotine replacement therapy products.

https://www.federalregister.gov/art...erapy-products-for-over-the-counter-human-use

We (the FDA) have reviewed the published literature on this longer-term use of NRT products and have not identified any safety risks associated with such use. A well-known and highly regarded study on the effects of long-term use of NRT products is the Lung Health Study, in which almost 6,000 smokers were given access to free nicotine gum for up to 5 years (see Murray et al., 1996). In this study, over 1,000 subjects were still using the gum after 1 year. The adverse effects of long-term nicotine gum use reported by these subjects were described as minor and transient, and there was no correlation between long-term gum use and cardiovascular events. A followup study found that long-term ad lib use of nicotine gum neither increased nor decreased the Lung Health Study subjects' likelihood of developing cancer.

Bottom line: All ingredients in my juice is already FDA approved individually.

On the other hand cigarette smoke has something like 69 PROVEN carcinogens and several thousand other chemicals.

 

[Racehorse]

Arnie,
It really doesn't matter if chinese products are junk or not. Americans will keep buying, becasue they demand cheap stuff.

I was in several airports last week. There are no longer porters or sky caps or anyone to help you. Now we are expected to have luggage with wheels and cart around pounds and pounds of stuff. There used to be people around to help, you could tip them, etc. The airlines decided they didn't want to pay minimum wage to have their presence. And perhaps consumers don't want to pay either.

American consumers need to stop blaming everyone and everything else, and put the blame on how things are squarely where it belongs.....on themselves.

One only has to read thru the fasstech topics, esp. the neg reviews, to see that now, people not only want dirt cheap, but they want it fast, and they want excellent customer service, and everything else along with it too!

I die laughing at this.

My brother travels the world, he says in developing nations with colonial influences, like french colonial, he is offered a very nice espresso in a porcelain cup before a meeting, real cream, etc.. Then somebody serves crossaints if they want one. They pay someone to do this, low wages yes, but it is still a job. Then, you are expected to exchange some nice-ities before launching into the meeting/business. (this is also true in Japan, etc.)

He say that back here, it's late afternoon, he has another meeting, he has to ask a receptionist if there is any coffee, she motions people toward a Mr. Coffee machine. The cups are the cheapest styrofoam you can find, and the creamer is powdered, and you get it yourself. He says the cups are so cheap they often leak.

McD's now has a sign to please clean your own table. A multinational corp with 80,000 stores can't pay somebody min. wager to bus tables? ONe person? Not only do you get crummy food but now you have to clean up what the person before you left, and then your own? I dont eat in those places, but quite frankly, I wouldn't even DO that. I'd rather pay 50 cents more for a hamburger there. But most people won't so that is WHY it is like that.

We have totally lost our sense of courtesy and much else, because all that matters is cheapest goods.

And yet, these consumers have the nerve to complain about China? Its a joke, right? Who else do they think is going to sit in row after row, all day long, with a cup of tea and a scone in the a.m and then work balls to the wall for 14 hours, sitting on benches *assembling* things? And for cheap?

American parents all think their children are too good to do this kind of work.

This is why it is off=shored. But US consumers will keep blaming government, politiicans, corps, whoever......when THIS is what they want, have said they want, and how they *practice* consuming.



As for Dekang, it is a true laboratory environment, floors look like high polished epoxy you would see in a fancy aircraft hanger, and everyone is in "clean suits" who works there, with hair covered, etc. Stainless steel everywhere.

I trust it.

The chinese factory workers get up every day and make all the stuff we want, and they are happy to make it, cuz they earn money and we are insatiable. We have to have more than one of everything, we are consumers foremost, we don't make anything anymore ourselves, we just buy incessantly. They knows this and are happy to fulfill that need in order to have jobs.

We don't have jobs anymore. Mostly we have consumers. Who don't make much of anything and have to buy it from people who do.

 

[cookiebun]

delete, forgot to quote.

 

[cookiebun]

Doesn't matter. My comment was still relevant.

And to reply to the actual meaning then...

Should I start posting links about the various contamination issues we've had with our foods in America as well? Mad Cow for starters?

I don't recall mad cow here, only the U.K. and folks that traveled there. I don't recall the human consequences of mad cow here either.

We have plenty of food scandal's here but I don't ever recall one that rose to the criminality of the melemine scandal in china.
Read that article I linked and follow the reference links at the bottom too.

Post the mad cow links. I want to see the prison sentences and fines the culprits got.

 

[cookiebun]

A U.S. company tried to kill me for 20 years, it's called Phillip Morris USA. Anyone heard of it?

Are you saying they twisted your arm to be come a smoker?
I'm not trying to be rude but how old are you? Did you start smoking before the early 1960s?
I started smoking in 1976. I would never claim Phillip Morris or any other tobacco company tried to kill me. I was the idiot who started smoking.
My mother died when she was 38 as a direct result of her smoking. At least she had an excuse. No one knew how dangerous cigarettes were when she started smoking.
All of us who started smoking after the early 1960's have only ourselves to blame.
BTW, I smoked for 35 years.

 

[Lombaowski]

Are you saying they twisted your arm to be come a smoker?
I'm not trying to be rude but how old are you? Did you start smoking before the early 1960s?
I started smoking in 1976. I would never claim Phillip Morris or any other tobacco company tried to kill me. I was the idiot who started smoking.
My mother died when she was 38 as a direct result of her smoking. At least she had an excuse. No one knew how dangerous cigarettes were when she started smoking.
All of us who started smoking after the early 1960's have only ourselves to blame.
BTW, I smoked for 35 years.

What I was doing there was theme-based metaphorical analysis based on the responses in the thread. People are complaining about Chinese standards and baby killing juices, while PMUSA sells something that will eventually kill you free and clear. Follow?

 

[Asbestos4004]

Are you saying they twisted your arm to be come a smoker?
I'm not trying to be rude but how old are you? Did you start smoking before the early 1960s?
I started smoking in 1976. I would never claim Phillip Morris or any other tobacco company tried to kill me. I was the idiot who started smoking.
My mother died when she was 38 as a direct result of her smoking. At least she had an excuse. No one knew how dangerous cigarettes were when she started smoking.
All of us who started smoking after the early 1960's have only ourselves to blame.
BTW, I smoked for 35 years.

You're going to feel really silly if they did, in fact, twist her arm....and become is one word these days.

just playing

 

[iz2sick]

I don't recall mad cow here, only the U.K. and folks that traveled there. I don't recall the human consequences of mad cow here either.

We have plenty of food scandal's here but I don't ever recall one that rose to the criminality of the melemine scandal in china.
Read that article I linked and follow the reference links at the bottom too.

Post the mad cow links. I want to see the prison sentences and fines the culprits got.

CDC - Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE)

Do people need to be fined and imprisoned to make a point relevant??? Because I'll tell you right now that businesses here in America get away with a lot of crap.

Interesting read on China's take about consumable exports to America:
Chinese say U.S. shares blame in food scandal - USATODAY.com

Another point to make about American food safety... what does every label on a can of tuna read? Something about dolphins right?

Hey, why doesn't Taco Bell offer green onions on anything anymore?


But again, this is all irrelevant. It's not about who is worse than who. You're bringing up something from a country that is NOTHING LIKE OURS. They are a different ethnic majority, different culture, different religions, MUCH different population density, and COMMUNIST.

Wow, they had a milk scandal. People got prosecuted. Wow. Oh wait, you mean the government prosecuted the involved parties? So wait some more, doesn't that make the comment "China allows their children to be poisoned" contradictory?

Forget food scandals... America should be prosecuting the president himself for doing some of the things he has done. We should be prosecuting the countless, countless number of corrupt police officers. These people literally get away with murder. And this is all occurring in a democratic country that is much less than a quarter of China's population.

TL;DR Nobody is perfect... especially a country with over 7 billion people. So kindly stop with the country bashing.

 

[Rocketpunk]

A lot of Westerners, i.e., us Americans, do not get how Chinese capitalism works. There are no copyright laws there, as far as I know. The way we as Westerners do business is VERY different from the way the Chinese market works. It is a cultural difference, and if you're opposed to it, sorry, bub, better get used to it. Whether or not you have "issues" with China, it won't do a thing. Just like recycling. It's actually quite pointless. But if it makes you feel better about yourself by supporting it, how could it be a bad thing?

It is a cultural difference, so if you don't understand why, it's understandable.

 

[ScottP]

I don't recall mad cow here, only the U.K. and folks that traveled there. I don't recall the human consequences of mad cow here either.

We have plenty of food scandal's here but I don't ever recall one that rose to the criminality of the melemine scandal in china.
Read that article I linked and follow the reference links at the bottom too.

Post the mad cow links. I want to see the prison sentences and fines the culprits got.

In the US there has only been one recent case of Mad Cow in 2012 but it was one cow and the meat never made it into the food supply. The animal was disposed of before any more cows or people were infected.

Mad Cow Disease Confirmed in U.S. Cow - ABC News

The BIG problem in the US has been E.coli contamination in various foods:
18 E.Coli outbreaks in the US 2006-2013 - CDC - Outbreaks Involving E. coli