When is the FDA thing going down?

[Vapor Vinny]

Even as it stands today, not all tobacco is taxed at the same level as cigarettes. Cigarettes aren't even taxed the same from state to state. Assuming e-cigarettes will be taxed at the same level as cigarettes is an unlikely, worst-case scenario, not a "given." And we HAVE fought attempts to tax e-cigarettes with anything greater than a basic sales tax.

Not all tobacco is used at the same level as cigarettes. But I'd be willing to wager that vaping surpasses smoking within the next 20 years (should it be allowed to exist). That's why I said "eventually". As for state to state differences in taxation...I can only imagine how much some states are going to try and squeeze out of people. I still think there is a "given" in all of this. And that is that the federal government is not going to lose money on this deal. They're simply not. How do they go about maintaining that tax revenue?

 

[kristin]

When e-cigarettes are proven to have little to almost no health risks and 4.3 million smokers become vapers, there will then be 4.3 million vapers fighting the tax increases and the ANTZ won't have the "health debt to society" and "get people to quit" arguments they had against cigarettes to justify the taxes. Most people supported the cigarette and tobacco taxes because the ANTZ convinced them they would force people to quit, would be used for programs to help people quit or teens not to start and would help pay for the health care of smokers that taxpayers were supposedly covering. With e-cigarettes, they've already quit smoking and there is no health care to be covered by taxpayers - so what are they going to tell the public the taxes for?

 

[DC2]

How do they go about maintaining that tax revenue?

By taxing "unhealthy" foods.

 

[Berylanna]

By taxing "unhealthy" foods.

The REAL purpose of sin taxes is to get revenue that gov't could claim people could dodge if they had to, but are unlikely to dodge.

So if instead of trying to tax soft drinks at 1 cent per ounce, if they tried to tax them at 1 cent per 8 ounces, they might even succeed and we'd make a fortune in revenue.

Of course Big Sugar opposes such things but the smaller the tax, the less credibility they'd have. I'm willing to stipulate vaping is probably a little bit unhealthy and I'm addicted to it...fortunately for me I'm not addicted to sugary soft drinks and the evidence for carbonation being bad is extremely suspect. AND I know how to buy equipment to DIY selzer.

So...instead of demonizing smokers, let's spread the weight around among ALL unhealthy habits, in small amounts. My cousin cannot afford health insurance so she doesn't ski, raft, smoke, or any of a large number of things that would risk more doctor visits. Let people commit the sins they are willing to pay for in MODERATION, instead of trying to claim that giving your kids Pepsi is angelic and vaping is demonic.

 

[EricDykstra]

When e-cigarettes are proven to have little to almost no health risks and 4.3 million smokers become vapers, there will then be 4.3 million vapers fighting the tax increases and the ANTZ won't have the "health debt to society" and "get people to quit" arguments they had against cigarettes to justify the taxes. Most people supported the cigarette and tobacco taxes because the ANTZ convinced them they would force people to quit, would be used for programs to help people quit or teens not to start and would help pay for the health care of smokers that taxpayers were supposedly covering. With e-cigarettes, they've already quit smoking and there is no health care to be covered by taxpayers - so what are they going to tell the public the taxes for?

There are 4.3 million smokers that could not stop the tax increases on cigarettes. The "health" reason is just to justify more taxes. You will see just as much taxes on ecigs eventually. The money has to come from somewhere. Ecigs are an easy target.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

By taxing "unhealthy" foods.

See Mayor Bloomberg and 32oz sodas. Funny how taxes seem okay when the only other alternative is banning.

More people have died from energy shots than ecigs.

I guessed I'd be shocked if the FDA takes no action.

 

[Robino1]

To the person that said to let them raise the tax on cigarettes another $.95 then people will look for alternatives to smoking..... It doesn't work that way. I started smoking when cigs were $.50 a pack. I swore I was going to stop when they hit $1.00..... Didn't stop smoking. I swore I was going to stop when they hit $2.00...... Didn't stop smoking. Most smokers will just keep paying as the price goes up. Sure some will look for alternatives and if we FIGHT TO KEEP THIS FROM BEING BANNED, those people May find vaping. It wasn't the price of cigs that led me here.

 

[tj99959]

When e-cigarettes are proven to have little to almost no health risks and 4.3 million smokers become vapers, there will then be 4.3 million vapers fighting the tax increases and the ANTZ won't have the "health debt to society" and "get people to quit" arguments they had against cigarettes to justify the taxes. Most people supported the cigarette and tobacco taxes because the ANTZ convinced them they would force people to quit, would be used for programs to help people quit or teens not to start and would help pay for the health care of smokers that taxpayers were supposedly covering. With e-cigarettes, they've already quit smoking and there is no health care to be covered by taxpayers - so what are they going to tell the public the taxes for?

Which is about the silliest thing ever. Like all of the smokers would live forever, and never ever have a health problem if only they would quit smoking. Got news for them; everyone gets an end of life event/illness whether they smoke or not.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

There are 4.3 million smokers that could not stop the tax increases on cigarettes. The "health" reason is just to justify more taxes. You will see just as much taxes on ecigs eventually. The money has to come from somewhere. Ecigs are an easy target.

Agreed. Which is why I keep saying that the issue is bigger than just ecigs. At some point, our politicians have to be fearful of levying taxes. Instead of the other way around. I don't want to get into cliches here, but we did found a country under similar circumstances.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

I used to work for the FDA as a legal-economist. The worst two years of my life and an eye-opening experience. You have to ask yourself why the FDA needs legal economists? That was a question I didn't even ask myself at the time.

 

[BigErn]

So what will happen when we order juice from overseas?

 

[Robino1]

So what will happen when we order juice from overseas?

If a ban goes down, they will confiscate shipments like they did in the past.

 

[cashley]

To the person that said to let them raise the tax on cigarettes another $.95 then people will look for alternatives to smoking..... It doesn't work that way. I started smoking when cigs were $.50 a pack. I swore I was going to stop when they hit $1.00..... Didn't stop smoking. I swore I was going to stop when they hit $2.00...... Didn't stop smoking. Most smokers will just keep paying as the price goes up. Sure some will look for alternatives and if we FIGHT TO KEEP THIS FROM BEING BANNED, those people May find vaping. It wasn't the price of cigs that led me here.

Yes I kept paying more through every tax increase too but I also like many others kept looking for a way to quit......The article stating they want to raise tax is out now ....today ( well yesterday and slightly before) and today vaping is a very good alternative readily available and has a huge potential to help that smoker looking at quitting again.........I didn’t say let them tax it, I personally feel they shouldn’t be taxed higher than any other product but I think the article may inspire a few smokers to look again at the alternative and with vaping here now and becoming more popular they could end up coming on board with us so when the fda releases their love note we will have more members on our side in this fight

 

[kristin]

There are 4.3 million smokers that could not stop the tax increases on cigarettes. The "health" reason is just to justify more taxes. You will see just as much taxes on ecigs eventually. The money has to come from somewhere. Ecigs are an easy target.

Ah, but 4.3 million smokers that were made to feel guilty for being a "burden on society." 4.3 million smokers made to feel stupid and weak-minded for doing something that was "killing them and harming innocent bystanders.' 4.3 million smokers who said they "want to quit." 4.3 million smokers who knew their smoke, butts and smell bothered people. 4.3 million smokers who were told the taxes would be used to help them quit. 4.3 million smokers who were convinced they couldn't argue what they were doing wasn't harmful (without being called crazy or a BT shill) so they couldn't argue the tax wasn't "justified." 4.3 million smokers who didn't have science on their side and THR advocates fighting for them using arguments and science that is nearly impossible to ignore.

We were all smokers once who didn't fight back, because most of us thought we were in the wrong. Now we are vapers, we know we are right and we ARE fighting back. That is the major difference.

 

[sacricide]

So what will happen when we order juice from overseas?

well, if you have any idea what it would be like to order things such as steroids online (controlled substances of that nature arent perhaps the best example) youll get a rough idea of what you may get into

ill tell you this, it wont be easiest thing... seizure letters. fines, then worse. this is at least what i would expect from my experience

 

[Tanti]

So what will happen when we order juice from overseas?

I wouldnt buy juice from anyone but juice made in the US in the first place. I hope they put a stop to prefill carts coming from china if they do anything.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

Ah, but 4.3 million smokers that were made to feel guilty for being a "burden on society." 4.3 million smokers made to feel stupid and weak-minded for doing something that was "killing them and harming innocent bystanders.' 4.3 million smokers who said they "want to quit." 4.3 million smokers who knew their smoke, butts and smell bothered people. 4.3 million smokers who were told the taxes would be used to help them quit. 4.3 million smokers who were convinced they couldn't argue what they were doing wasn't harmful (without being called crazy or a BT shill) so they couldn't argue the tax wasn't "justified." 4.3 million smokers who didn't have science on their side and THR advocates fighting for them using arguments and science that is nearly impossible to ignore.

We were all smokers once who didn't fight back, because most of us thought we were in the wrong. Now we are vapers, we know we are right and we ARE fighting back. That is the major difference.

I admire your optimism. MILLIONS OF AMERICANS opposed Obamacare. More opposed it than favored it. Yet it's here and I'm already seeing my premiums rise and money coming out of my paycheck.

Ecigs will be demonized just like analogs were. And then, we're in the same scenario as we were before.

Us vapers aren't the problem. It's everyone else...

"Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me."

 

[kristin]

I admire your optimism. MILLIONS OF AMERICANS opposed Obamacare. More opposed it than favored it. Yet it's here and I'm already seeing my premiums rise and money coming out of my paycheck.

Ecigs will be demonized just like analogs were. And then, we're in the same scenario as we were before.

Us vapers aren't the problem. It's everyone else...

"Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me."

Did you miss what we just accomplished in Oklahoma? We have a community here that is united in a single cause. It crosses political lines. There really is nothing like it that you can compare it to. You cannot compare that to smoker rights groups (have you ever seen a "smoke meet?") You cannot compare it to the people who simply disagreed with Obamacare. We have an actual community fighting for a product. Can you think of any other product that has that? (The only thing I can think of is guns, actually.) These are completely uncharted waters.

Actually, as melodramatic as it sounds, it probably compares most to the various civil rights movements. For a lot of people, they feel they are literally fighting for their lives to keep these devices available, affordable and effective.

The whole reason CASAA exists is to educate and inform people so e-cigs and other THR products are NOT demonized. The more people who start using them, the more people who hated smelling smoke will see the difference and the less likely they will be to hate e-cigarettes. The more research that shows how relatively harmless e-cigarettes are will make a huge difference, too. We just need to become a force to be reckoned with and that is happening in leaps and bounds as more smokers find e-cigarettes. CASAA has grown more than fourfold (now 4,141 members as of today) in less than 3 years! We just need to be louder than the ANTZ and get the truth out there. Only sulking in the corner and hiding our vaping in the shadows will be our downfall. Essentially, we have to stop acting like we did as smokers, know truth is on our side and not back down.

I have to be optimistic. It's what keeps me fighting. I certainly don't get paid for what I do.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

Did you miss what we just accomplished in Oklahoma? We have a community here that is united in a single cause. It crosses political lines. There really is nothing like it that you can compare it to. You cannot compare that to smoker rights groups (have you ever seen a "smoke meet?") You cannot compare it to the people who simply disagreed with Obamacare. We have an actual community fighting for a product. Can you think of any other product that has that? (The only thing I can think of is guns, actually.) These are completely uncharted waters.

Actually, as melodramatic as it sounds, it probably compares most to the various civil rights movements. For a lot of people, they feel they are literally fighting for their lives to keep these devices available, affordable and effective.

The whole reason CASAA exists is to educate and inform people so e-cigs and other THR products are NOT demonized. The more people who start using them, the more people who hated smelling smoke will see the difference and the less likely they will be to hate e-cigarettes. The more research that shows how relatively harmless e-cigarettes are will make a huge difference, too. We just need to become a force to be reckoned with and that is happening in leaps and bounds as more smokers find e-cigarettes. CASAA has grown more than fourfold (now 4,141 members as of today) in less than 3 years! We just need to be louder than the ANTZ and get the truth out there. Only sulking in the corner and hiding our vaping in the shadows will be our downfall. Essentially, we have to stop acting like we did as smokers, know truth is on our side and not back down.

I have to be optimistic. It's what keeps me fighting. I certainly don't get paid for what I do.

Oh yeah, I think if it were a state by state decision, I'd feel great. And frankly, that's how it should be. But that's not reality. Regardless of what states do, we have the Feds to deal with. I'd love to be as optimistic as you, but I just can't see the federal government walking away from all that tax revenue. The FDA, I can assure you, is studying the ecig market in terms of price elasticity. They are not going to ban ecigs. But they are going to tax them to the extent that they think the market will bare those taxes. That's a win for a lot of folks. But not for me. Otherwise, I agree with what you say. And I do advocate ecigs every chance I get. I'm a helluva salesman in that regard. I even begun building vaporizers for friends.

 

[Worzel]

Everywhere I have ordered juice from online I have seen warning labels on the bottles. I have seen childproof bottles, or at least an option to have childproof bottles free of charge. American vendors seem to be using common sense when it comes to their products not to upset any government higher ups. We are not criminals! We just want to vape.

It should be a state by state decision, or maybe even county. I was informed before that the FDA doesn't apply taxes, it's the Feds and the state. I think it would be a great business decision to keep ecigs going! A nice job for electricians and machinists everywhere! We have much sought after American made mods on the market now! We have some awesome juice vendors who mix fresh to order! Why not take a little from the Chinese and run with it!