Where are all the lawsuits over cigarette dangers?

[zoiDman]

So how big a thing is underage and teen vaping in the US? ...

Isn't your Question Dependent on how "Teen vaping" is Quantitatively Defined?

If a Teen takes 2 or 3 Hits off an e-Cigarette in the Last 30 Days, and Never uses it again, are they a "Teen Vaper"?
What about a Teen who occasionally uses an e-Cigarette on the Weekends?
How about a Teen that goes thru 2 Pods a Day, everyday?

Many would say that the 1st Not a Teen Vaper. Whereas Most would agree that the 3rd is. And Much debate might ensue over the 2nd.

But just about Any Reasonable person would say that Clearly these Examples describe a Very Different degree of Use. And to Lump them into a Single Statistical Percentile would be Uninformative at Best. And Deceptive at Worst.

So perhaps this Explains why you are seeing Conflicting Percentiles as to what the True Size of "Teen Vapers" are?

If there is No Standardized Agreement to what a "Teen Vaper" is, how can selective Youth Surveys (which In and Of themselves can be Inherently Flawed) place meaningful Numerical Values as to their True Size?

 

[Tabac man]

Isn't your Question Dependent on how "Teen Vaping" is Quantitatively Defined?

If a Teen takes 2 or 3 Hits off an e-Cigarette in the Last 30 Days, and Never uses it again, are they a "Teen Vaper"?
What about a Teen who occasionally uses an e-Cigarette on the Weekends?
How about a Teen that goes thru 2 Pods a Day, everyday?

Many would say that the 1st Not a Teen Vaper. Whereas Most would agree that the 3rd is. And Much debate might ensue over the 2nd.

But just about Any Reasonable person would say that Clearly these Examples describe a Very Different degree of Use. And to Lump them into a Single Statistical Percentile would be Uninformative at Best. And Deceptive at Worst.

So perhaps this Explains why you are seeing Conflicting Percentiles as to what the True Size of "Teen Vapers" are?

If there is No Standardized Agreement to what a "Teen Vaper" is, how can selective Youth Surveys (which In and Of themselves can be Inherently Flawed) place meaningful Numerical Values as to their True Size?

I just asked if you guys are seeing a lot of young uns vaping.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

See them, no. I asked my grandson and he said a lot do.

 

[Vapemesilly]

According to my son teens are vaping. It sounds like it's about as common as the anti-vape people are trying to make it out to be. For most of them it's the Juul or Juul-like devices.

 

[Rob B.]

See them, no. I asked my grandson and he said a lot do.

Same here....

 

[Tabac man]

According to my son teens are vaping. It sounds like it's about as common as the anti-vape people are trying to make it out to be. For most of them it's the Juul or Juul-like devices.

Stupidly high nic devices possibly?

 

[Rossum]

Stupidly high nic devices possibly?

Context. Is it really "stupid high" when you're talking about a device with as little power as a Juul?

 

[ShowerHead]

It’s good to rant about something totally beyond your control.
Like snow in the winter. Heat in the summer.
In the end, just like with those, regulations are coming and there’s nothing you are going to do about it.
It’s for “The Children” after all.

Spend your efforts on becoming self sufficient in vaping.

 

[Tabac man]

Context. Is it really "stupid high" when you're talking about a device with as little power as a Juul?

I haven't used one but from what I'm reading they seem to give quite a hit. My guess is that's why there is no big Juul phenomena here. Nic restricted to 20mg max over the counter. My guess is 50mg would blow my brains out even with such low power. I still say Juul have not done the 'vaping community' any favours. They have attracted the wrong king of attention and it seems to be because of the high nic content.

 

[Rossum]

I still say Juul have not done the 'vaping community' any favours.

The old-school vaping community like us, probably not.

But they are the first mass-market device that's actually effective. I know people who've quit smoking with Juul and have have zero interest in a "big and clunky" vape like I use (a single 18650 squonker that really isn't much bigger than a pack of cigarettes and happily rides in my shirt pocket).

So I think Juul has done plenty of smokers a favor by getting them off cigs.

I also think that Juul has prevented countless under-age people from trying cigarettes to begin with. If you look at the total fraction of minors who are smoking and vaping, it has remained about the same over the last 10 years. It's just that many of the current crop vape instead of smoking. If "Juuling" weren't a thing, I expect a goodly number of them would be smoking instead.

 

[Tabac man]

Mass market yes as in they have spent the dosh raising the profile and getting it out there. Plenty people stopped smoking using CE4's etc though. I did. Sure they were crud but they worked for a lot of people and that kinda thing still sells even today. I'm not really on a anti Juul trip. I'd say fine if it wasn't causing controversy, but it is and it was predictable.

I stopped vaping for a while, and wasn't frequenting vaping forums for a few years. I noticed immediately on my return a 'new' phenomena called nic salts, and the high nic content. I for one am not surprised by the controversy around it and Juul seems to have become the focus of that controversy. I appreciate 'experienced' vapers have been mixing their own at whatever nic strength they choose, but the high strength nic salt devices have just brought it into public awareness in a negative way, because of their mass market strategy.

It's clear to me youngsters are indeed using these devices for the intense 'hit' in the US, and not necessarily to stop smoking. I'm not suggesting it is an epidemic as reported but it is happening, and it most probably wasn't such a thing before high strength nic salts appeared, combined with high profile mass marketing methods like those employed by Juul.

I'm gonna get off this horse because I don't live in the States and we don't have the same issues here in the UK. I'll stand by my belief that Juul etc have caused you guys problems with the nic salts. If teenagers were vaping high strength nic here in the UK just for a quick hit, we would have the same controversy. Predictably. Mind you we have laughing gas and balloons. .

 

[Eskie]

Same reports from my daughter as I don't hang around many teens these days. Many try it. Some keep using it.

Context. Is it really "stupid high" when you're talking about a device with as little power as a Juul?

On a single draw you're correct. But if a teen is sucking down 1 or 2 pods a day they are taking in a pretty decent amount of nicotine on a daily basis. When I first went down this road with Vuse, which turned out to be a 48 mg solution (and at the time it didn't even have context for m to be concerned about that or not) I used up to 2 pods a day the first one to two months after stopping cigarettes. That's about 100 mg of nic per day. These days with 6 mg nic and maybe 50 mg per day, and that total dose has remained constant, 24 mg at 2 ml a day to now 7 ml of 6 mg a day now coming up on 5 years.

 

[Rossum]

On a single draw you're correct. But if a teen is sucking down 1 or 2 pods a day they are taking in a pretty decent amount of nicotine on a daily basis.

Keep in mind that a Juul pod contains a whopping 0.7 ml of liquid. So one pod a day equals ~40mg of nic, which is slightly on the low side of average for most of us here. I personally go though about 65mg per day (about 5 ml of 13 mg DIY).

Having paid attention to countless "How much do you vape" kinds of threads here over the years, there's a typical bell-shaped curve to nic use, the top/center of which is between 50 and 60 mg/day. Moreover, vaping style doesn't seem to have much influence on this. So yes, 1 or 2 Juul pods a day is a "decent" amount of nic, but it's not outlandish.

Next question we should as ourselves is: If vaping weren't a thing, how many of these kids would be heavy (pack a day or more) smokers?

 

[CMD-Ky]

I use about 75 mg per day. I was sort of surprised that I used that much. I feel an attack of impending nic flu coming on.

 

[LaurieStr]

Just read an article about Juul getting sued over teen nicotine addiction, among other things. Juul and vaping in general are in the headlines every day. Where is the media attention on the catastrophic effects of cigarette addiction that's been going on for well over a 100 years? We know for sure that cigarettes kill you. Where are all the lawsuits over big tobacco getting teens hooked and damaging their health? View attachment 827547

Teen’s Two-Pod A Day Juul Addiction Caused Massive Stroke, Lawsuit Says

From what I can tell people are ...... off because they told us to quit smoking and we found an alternative.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

My brother who socializes with 20-somethings reports that vapes are shared socially at parties. They find anything that generates big clouds to be tacky.

 

[Bliss Doubt]

The way things are done in this country, and much of the rest of the world where multinational corporations rule, is by corporate strong arming.

As long as it remains available, until it gets taken down, I'll refer people to this excellent analysis of the "triangle of f*ckery" against vaping:



Big tobacco is still growing tobacco and producing cigarettes. Big pharma still wants to sell consumers their smoking cessation methods that don't work. Big government wants sin taxes. FDA wants to be paid. It probably won't be over until vaping is either banned, or "medicalized" so that you have to go to the doctor and pull down your pants to get a prescription for your vape.

 

[CMD-Ky]

This could have been voted "Winner" or "Agree"

The way things are done in this country, and much of the rest of the world where multinational corporations rule, is by corporate strong arming.

As long as it remains available, until it gets taken down, I'll refer people to this excellent analysis of the "triangle of f*ckery" against vaping:



Big tobacco is still growing tobacco and producing cigarettes. Big pharma still wants to sell consumers their smoking cessation methods that don't work. Big government wants sin taxes. FDA wants to be paid. It probably won't be over until vaping is either banned, or "medicalized" so that you have to go to the doctor and pull down your pants to get a prescription for your vape.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Keep in mind that a Juul pod contains a whopping 0.7 ml of liquid. So one pod a day equals ~40mg of nic, which is slightly on the low side of average for most of us here. I personally go though about 65mg per day (about 5 ml of 13 mg DIY).

Having paid attention to countless "How much do you vape" kinds of threads here over the years, there's a typical bell-shaped curve to nic use, the top/center of which is between 50 and 60 mg/day. Moreover, vaping style doesn't seem to have much influence on this. So yes, 1 or 2 Juul pods a day is a "decent" amount of nic, but it's not outlandish.

Next question we should as ourselves is: If vaping weren't a thing, how many of these kids would be heavy (pack a day or more) smokers?

Wow, I'm well over the peak then @ 18mg/ml X 7 to 9ml a day.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Wow, I'm well over the peak then @ 18mg/ml X 7 to 9ml a day.

Alexander, it's been good to know ya.