Dependence vs addiction

[Eranda13]

I saw this in an article posted somewhere and it started me thinking...

Are cigarettes really an addiction? Or are people just dependent on them? How about nicotine by itself?

Addiction is generally perceived to be a physical or psychological need for a substance that is overwhelming and has negative consequences. Dependence is different because those negative consequences aren't really there.

In the case of drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc.- the negative consequences are obvious. Crime, abuse, illness- there are lots of them. People sell their kids for drugs. People commit crimes for drugs. Alcoholics who drive kill people. Gamblers lose everything they have and get into debt. And on and on.

But I've never heard of anyone knocking over a gas station for cigarette money. Or abandoning their kids for days at a time to go out smoking. However... people DO continue to smoke, even though they are aware that they are running very real risks of getting cancer, emphysema, etc. That's illogical behavior, if nothing else.

Then we have nicotine. If we are using nicotine, but it is not risking our health (or anything else) in any significant way- then how can that be quantified as an addiction?

I know loads of coffee drinkers who will go to ridiculous lengths for a cup of coffee in the morning. They're cranky if they don't get it. They will happily spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on coffee makers, starbucks, grinders, etc. in order to get their fix. There's a whole industry and culture around coffee drinking. But it has no significant effect on their health (as long as they're not abusing it excessively). It has no effect on whether they can hold a job or be caring parents. It doesn't put them in financial danger. So it's not considered a problem.

But somehow, the prevailing wisdom appears to be that nicotine- even when used outside the parameters of burning plant matter (cigarettes, cigars, pipes) is still an "addictive" substance, with all the implications of using the word addiction. But that's not the reality in any way whatsoever.

In reality, nicotine vaping is more like coffee drinking in its habits, effects and risks. A dependence, not an addiction.

Maybe our media campaign should equate the two... i.e., vaping = coffee drinking or caffeinated sodas.

 

[Fulgurant]

Was this the article, by any chance?

Does ANYONE have a valid definition of “addiction”? | Anti-THR Lies and related topics

 

[Heavyrocker]

You just gave me a thought,if pure nic extract has no ''visible'' negative damaging qualities but is very addictive,how do we know the food industry dont add it to foods.?..there was rumors coffee shops were adding it in the mix.

 

[YKruss]

Fr. Jack Kearney, professor of addiction study: -

 

[Eranda13]

Was this the article, by any chance?

Does ANYONE have a valid definition of “addiction”? | Anti-THR Lies and related topics

No actually, but that's a good article. I guess I'm not the only one thinking this way...

 

[chesty]

I'm not a doctor.

I was taking melatonin supplements to help me get to sleep, it worked great, but after a few weeks, I needed to take the melatonin to get to sleep.
I wasn't addicted to them in anyway, I was dependent on them to get to sleep.
My doctor advised me to not to take them long term, so I stopped, i had no issues with stopping, no craving, headaches or any symptoms, other than taking longer to get to sleep. that i believe is dependency.

smoking tobacco on the other hand is in my mind addictive. I needed a smoke or I had withdrawal symptoms. I tried quitting 20 times, i tried nrt, cold turkey, i failed every time. I couldn't afford to smoke, yet I couldn't quit.

i believe nicotine is just one chemical in tobacco smoke that is addictive. my experience with vaping is it worked in getting me off the smokes (last stinky was 32 days ago), but in the first few days of vaping, i really really wanted a stinky. the nicotine was only one part of the equation. the throat hit was another, and god know what other chemicals in tobacco smoke I was addicted to.

I also believe nicotine on its own is a million times easier to quit than tobacco smoke. I can go hours sitting next to my fully charged, fully juiced and functioning PV and not toot. I also don't get any anxiety about leaving the house and not being able to vape like I did with the stinkies.

anyway, there is absolutely nothing scientific about this post, just my uneducated personal observations.

 

[chesty]

i just watch the Fr. Jack Kearney video, now he is an interesting person, and I'll subscribe to his feed and watch a few more videos.
I think he's interesting because on the one hand he believes in the bible and things like talking snakes, yet he's also scientific. I don't understand that. and i think he would have sworn an oath to live without extravagance, yet he smoked, which seems extravagant to me. I guess it goes to show the power of smokes. anyway, an interesting fellow and thanks YKruss for sharing.

 

[Recycled Roadkill]

I've almost always called myself addicted to nicotine. I'm happy my PV did the trick for me especially considering that wasn't my original intention. My PV purchase was intended to supplement and not replace the analogs and I'm still amazed at the positive result I've experienced.

 

[OlDogNewTricks]

There has been a lot of discussion about how addictive nicotine really is. I personally think it is more than the chemical. For me, I don't crave nicotine anymore at all, but I am totally hooked on vaping. Love the action, the feel, the flavor. Loving experimenting with shiny new things. Spending time on this forum and Youtube, checking out new things. Just for laughs, after being off analogs for a few weeks, try 0 nic, it may very well surprise you how well you do after you get ove r the idea that you are ingesting nicotine. I still want it for the 'lift' but it wasn't an issue not having any, YMMV. Good luck and have fun!

 

[Caridwen]

Let's try to keep this topic as civil as possible.

It's a good topic but we have many Friends of Bill, ex- addicts on this board that may take exception to someone else's definition of addiction, so be considerate.

Also, remember the forum rules regarding drug talk so watch your wording.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ation/255864-why-we-dont-allow-drug-talk.html

Thank you!

 

[RosaJ]

There has been a lot of discussion about how addictive nicotine really is. I personally think it is more than the chemical. For me, I don't crave nicotine anymore at all, but I am totally hooked on vaping. Love the action, the feel, the flavor. Loving experimenting with shiny new things. Spending time on this forum and Youtube, checking out new things. Just for laughs, after being off analogs for a few weeks, try 0 nic, it may very well surprise you how well you do after you get ove r the idea that you are ingesting nicotine. I still want it for the 'lift' but it wasn't an issue not having any, YMMV. Good luck and have fun!

Totally agree with you. I vape 0 nic sometimes because I love the flavor and really don't miss the nic at all. I look at my pv as a pacifier that keeps me busy delighting my taste buds. It's like eating candy without the calories, a win-win!

 

[wv2win]

I saw this in an article posted somewhere and it started me thinking...

Are cigarettes really an addiction? Or are people just dependent on them? How about nicotine by itself?

Addiction is generally perceived to be a physical or psychological need for a substance that is overwhelming and has negative consequences. Dependence is different because those negative consequences aren't really there.

In the case of drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc.- the negative consequences are obvious. Crime, abuse, illness- there are lots of them. People sell their kids for drugs. People commit crimes for drugs. Alcoholics who drive kill people. Gamblers lose everything they have and get into debt. And on and on.

But I've never heard of anyone knocking over a gas station for cigarette money. Or abandoning their kids for days at a time to go out smoking. However... people DO continue to smoke, even though they are aware that they are running very real risks of getting cancer, emphysema, etc. That's illogical behavior, if nothing else.

Then we have nicotine. If we are using nicotine, but it is not risking our health (or anything else) in any significant way- then how can that be quantified as an addiction?

I know loads of coffee drinkers who will go to ridiculous lengths for a cup of coffee in the morning. They're cranky if they don't get it. They will happily spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on coffee makers, starbucks, grinders, etc. in order to get their fix. There's a whole industry and culture around coffee drinking. But it has no significant effect on their health (as long as they're not abusing it excessively). It has no effect on whether they can hold a job or be caring parents. It doesn't put them in financial danger. So it's not considered a problem.

But somehow, the prevailing wisdom appears to be that nicotine- even when used outside the parameters of burning plant matter (cigarettes, cigars, pipes) is still an "addictive" substance, with all the implications of using the word addiction. But that's not the reality in any way whatsoever.

In reality, nicotine vaping is more like coffee drinking in its habits, effects and risks. A dependence, not an addiction.

Maybe our media campaign should equate the two... i.e., vaping = coffee drinking or caffeinated sodas.

I'm not a doctor, either. But I think your thoughts are well-reasoned.

 

[Crash Moses]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I firmly believe the chemicals they put in name brand cigs are what make the nicotine "addictive". These chemicals (such as ammonia) react with the nicotine to enhance its effects.

I did RYO using pipe tobacco for years before I started vaping. Long before I'd even seen an e-cig I noticed that whenever I bummed a name brand cigarette from a friend I would get a nice nicotine rush that I didn't get from my RYO.

That's why I think it was easier for me to switch to vaping than some of my friends. The nicotine we inhale isn't nearly as addictive as the stuff found in regular cigs because there are no additional alkaloids or other chemicals to enhance the effects.

 

[DrBeaker]

ever heard of the addiction severity index?
Addiction is defined by tolerence and the presence of withdrawl symptoms.
Try to quit something anything you use daily and see if you experience withdrawl?
Have you increased the amount of whatever it is you have been using to get the same effect?
If your answer is yes then your addicted to whatever it is your using. Not like water. Your depending on water live.
if you have high blood pressure are your diabetic your dependent on the drugs to keep you alive.
people do and have knocked off gas stations to get cigarettes crime is very poor example of what an addict is.

 

[Eranda13]

OK I understand the issues with what behavior we are using to determine addiction vs. dependence. And what words. I'm not in this to make anyone uncomfortable.

Basically, I've always thought- since my doctor first made the comparison in her description of what nicotine is and does outside of actual tobacco smoking- that vaping is more akin to caffeine dependence than it is to smoking addiction.

And I agree- when I first started vaping I had ALL the withdrawal symptoms that you would normally associate with quitting smoking. I was cranky, irritable, craving a cig- the whole nine yards. I sort of sensed that it was because there was more in cig smoke than nicotine that my body was craving. Maybe the combination of chemicals, maybe those compounds on their own. Who knows.

Right now people often equate vaping with smoking- just as dangerous, just as addictive. I just think that maybe as a group, we are not presenting nicotine use in PVs the right way- maybe if we equated it with caffeine consumption it would make more sense to people and be more realistic.