While I didn't have a big interest in the classifieds or co-op forums, I applied...

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corruption42

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I spent 10 years in the biz ..

While yes, it may be not-for-profit .. ( I personally don't know, can't say although I would suspect things are not as altruistic as one might think) .. Commercial would be defined, IMO, as any site that accepts ad revenue and is not setup as a non-profit organization .. and if ECF decides to fully monetize itself at some point, I have no problem with that .. in fact, one of the major sites I have modded in is very much monetized yet offers those with paid membership ad free browsing ..

I can agree with this sentiment completely. I do think however that many people don't realize just how much cost can go into maintaining such a site. So hopefully our little back-and-forth here will prevent another one of these identical threads in the future. Probably not though. :)
 

Uncle Willie

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I can agree with this sentiment completely. I do think however that many people don't realize just how much cost can go into maintaining such a site. So hopefully our little back-and-forth here will prevent another one of these identical threads in the future. Probably not though. :)

Very unlikely .. one thing about ECF is the sheer number of repeat threads ..

And yes, it can cost some real money .. especially when you are in that growth phase .. which it seems to me like ECF is in ..
 

oldsoldier

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I think i covered this once before in another thread. But I'll reiterate it so folks can understand. The members that have worked in the web-hosting industry and as IT professionals in support of the industry will understand the scope of this site immediately and draw their own conclusions on the profitability of ECF.

ECF is hosted on a cluster of dedicated web facing servers with a load balancer. We just recently upgraded to a high end dedicated database server to help manage the future growth of the site. In addition to the ECF main cluster we run several other smaller servers to handle ancillary support function such as ECF Live Chat, IDS, coupon site, InfoZone, wiki, etc ...

The forum itself receives anywhere from 10 -14K posts a day and is trending upwards.Those members that have experience in the field will surely be able to draw the conclusion that our hosting and bandwith bills are well beyond what any reasonable person with an average income would want to pay out of their own pocket regardless of how altruistic or enthusiastic of the cause they would be.

When you factor in that our *nix admin in charge of maintaining the infrastructure is on an hourly contract and our vBulletin tech is also on an hourly contract it doesn't take a CPA to figure out that upgrades and unexpected glitches get expensive real fast. I'm not privy to the details of their contracts, but the going hourly rate for a server admin/tech is around $110 and hour and application specialists and devs can usually get the same if not more.

Bottom line: ECF does make enough to pay the light bills and keep the forum running. We even make enough to stick a few dollars away for a rainy day (read sever crash, or forum upgrade) and to upgrade hardware as we grow.

This would all change if we didn't have a volunteer staff because even at minimum wage our payroll would be prohibitive...
 

corruption42

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Thanks for the summary, Sarge. Thats pretty much what I expected -- high scale, high availibility load balanced cluster. This is exactly what I work with on a daily basis, and I will attest that this is *NOT* cheap. A couple hundred bucks a month for most decent servers capable of doing this kind of task, bare minimum -- and it requires a minimum of 2 (and I'd wager a guess its more than that) -- not to mention bandwidth accumulation.

Thanks for all you guys do here, Sarge. None of my commentary was intended to discredit it, and I hope it wasn't taken as such.
 

oldsoldier

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no problem :) I just thought I would chime in and give you guys some info based on where the thread was heading.

ETA: ECF has grown in leaps and bounds over the years. who would have thought that a little UK forum on shared hosting would grow into this humungous juggernaut.
 

budynbuick

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I think i covered this once before in another thread. But I'll reiterate it so folks can understand. The members that have worked in the web-hosting industry and as IT professionals in support of the industry will understand the scope of this site immediately and draw their own conclusions on the profitability of ECF.

ECF is hosted on a cluster of dedicated web facing servers with a load balancer. We just recently upgraded to a high end dedicated database server to help manage the future growth of the site. In addition to the ECF main cluster we run several other smaller servers to handle ancillary support function such as ECF Live Chat, IDS, coupon site, InfoZone, wiki, etc ...

The forum itself receives anywhere from 10 -14K posts a day and is trending upwards.Those members that have experience in the field will surely be able to draw the conclusion that our hosting and bandwith bills are well beyond what any reasonable person with an average income would want to pay out of their own pocket regardless of how altruistic or enthusiastic of the cause they would be.

When you factor in that our *nix admin in charge of maintaining the infrastructure is on an hourly contract and our vBulletin tech is also on an hourly contract it doesn't take a CPA to figure out that upgrades and unexpected glitches get expensive real fast. I'm not privy to the details of their contracts, but the going hourly rate for a server admin/tech is around $110 and hour and application specialists and devs can usually get the same if not more.

Bottom line: ECF does make enough to pay the light bills and keep the forum running. We even make enough to stick a few dollars away for a rainy day (read sever crash, or forum upgrade) and to upgrade hardware as we grow.

This would all change if we didn't have a volunteer staff because even at minimum wage our payroll would be prohibitive...

Not sucking up (no reason too)but I love you folks! Great job! I hope you all make a nice profit. I will be kicking in sooner then later. All of my ducks are nearly in line HeHe.
 

johni

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After reading this thread, I am becoming a supporting member. Thank you for a very informative, well run site that has helped me immensely in my endeavors to remain smoke free. I feel blessed as I had the patience to become verified and actually enjoy reading, posting, and learning. I'm stopping there as I am old, frank, and honest but not verbose nor complaining.
 

gazzatron

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I'm new here and don't really get the co-op thing fully or the verified thing (give me time) but seriously why would it matter where the money goes, I'd like it to fall directly in the mods pockets if anything, I don't see the problem here and so what if it takes a few days longer than they said they would TRY to do, stop your whining and be grateful to these unpaid grafters, if the mods are ever round my way I'll buy them a beer and thanks for all the MASSIVE FREE SUPPORT
 

BarrelRoll

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Glad I was able to help you out. As for J0ker's response, dude, the guy already explained that he has to respond to 100's of PM's a day...and process several hundred verifications a week. What do you want him to do, hold your hand? Mocking the verification process isn't going to win you any brownie points here, nor will implying that you could "spoof" the process if you wanted to.

That's my point, though, he did respond. I jumped through every hoop in his FAQ about using NetID for verification and he told me I was denied with no reason given. It wasn't a time thing, he actively told me I was denied without giving me any reason, and I followed his step-by-step instructions exactly.

Whatever, I got what I was looking for for the right price without being special enough to be in the ECF cool guy's club, so I don't care, but it's still just a completely annoying process that does little more than Captcha to protect the members in that section.
 

PLANofMAN

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This was something that should have been resolved via PM's. To me it seems as though you wanted to exploit this forum as a source of cheap stuff. Perhaps you did, perhaps you didn't, I can't judge a man's motivations. Starting a thread like this was not a good way to endear yourself to the moderators of this forum. Perhaps you are in timeout, perhaps you made an error? Only J0ker can say, and he's not likely to air your dirty laundry in front of the entire forum. That's part of the responsibility that mods must bear. If I was a mod, reading your comments, I would not be inclined to grant you any privileges. And it is a privilege, not a right. I doubt any mods will "like" this post, because, as mods they have to stay above this kind of stuff, favoritism, etc. But I'll bet you they'll smile and nod when they do read it.
 

sonicdsl

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This was something that should have been resolved via PM's. To me it seems as though you wanted to exploit this forum as a source of cheap stuff. Perhaps you did, perhaps you didn't, I can't judge a man's motivations. Starting a thread like this was not a good way to endear yourself to the moderators of this forum. Perhaps you are in timeout, perhaps you made an error? Only J0ker can say, and he's not likely to air your dirty laundry in front of the entire forum. That's part of the responsibility that mods must bear. If I was a mod, reading your comments, I would not be inclined to grant you any privileges. And it is a privilege, not a right. I doubt any mods will "like" this post, because, as mods they have to stay above this kind of stuff, favoritism, etc. But I'll bet you they'll smile and nod when they do read it.

stevie_nod.gif
 

Fury83

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Here's the part that confuses me...complaining about it being harder if you don't have paypal or if your ECF and paypal emails don't match.

If you don't have paypal, you are not going to be buying much in the classifieds since that is the only way to pay for 95% of what is sold. Most coops still use paypal too.

And...you can switch your paypal primary email or your ecf email to make them match. My paypal account was set up many years ago, so I just switched the email to match ECF.
 

Omnipanzer

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I'm happy to hear that, can you please link me to the latest non-commercial aka non-profit general ledgers statements of the ecf forms?

While I certainly hope all of the extra funds are being donated to thin mints with the girl scouts of America, I'd just as soon have an opportunity to vet the forums ledgers for the benefit of the community. If indeed it's an NPO.

Warm Regards,
Magic Mike



Pretty clear by your third post you had an agenda long before making this thread. You have no intention of garnering the facts just being droll and arguing. This site is owned, no one needs to do anything for you and I don't see why they would. You clearly think you rate special attention but you don't... you aren't important.
 
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