Whole Tobacco Leaf Extraction

[6spdsurfer]

So I finally went over and read that and see you did try it already haha. Sounds like the extraction went well and I'm curious to see how those flavors change with a good steep. The tobacco I really want to use to try this is a Virginia cured sweet bright leaf.

http://www.leafonly.com/virginia_brightleaf_sweet.php

Anyone try this one yet?

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[CarbonThief]

Yep, Leaf Only will be my next tobacco order, looking forward to several of theirs, including that Golden Leaf (Brightleaf) Virginian flue cured!

 

[CarbonThief]

By the way, one of the three tobaccos I used I am pretty sure is made with this, called Tin Star Gold (as in golden leaf perhaps?) pipe.

 

[Kemosabe]

is tobacco extraction used only for flavor, or does the tobacco impart any nicotine to the final result?

 

[CarbonThief]

the general consensus, I think, or at least many of us (I can use the term "us" now!) believe it does indeed impart some, albeit likely small amount of nicotine to the extract. I wondered how Scarf-Ace felt she could judge the TH of her cigar extraction and deem that the nic content was something like 15 to 17 and her target was like 12, but I can tell this way also it seems. My target was 20, and the vape is pretty similar in TH to my 24 mg juices and noticeably different than my 18 mg juices. Of course a bromethyl blue or (something) experiment on the extract needs to be performed at some point, but I lack the reagents at the moment.

My best guess is diluting the 60 mg nic base down to 1/3 final volume with extract and VG, and using the very subjective and not at all scientific estimation of TH, I am around 22 to 23 mg with my final mixed juice. I will report back when I am allowed to spend more money on vape stuff at which point I will get the necessary reagents.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

the post above mine notwithstanding, is it true that this process will not get the nicotine out of the leaf?

i see you guys talking about flavors but what im really after is a way to get my own nicotine juice in the event of an fda ban on e liquid...am i in the wrong thread?

 

[CarbonThief]

the post above mine notwithstanding, is it true that this process will not get the nicotine out of the leaf?

i see you guys talking about flavors but what im really after is a way to get my own nicotine juice in the event of an fda ban on e liquid...am i in the wrong thread?

I don't know much about it, but based on the chemical properties of nicotine and multiple websites and threads I've read, I'm pretty sure you need a more robust solvent to more fully extract nicotine from the leaf. That and distillation equipment, safety apparel etc.

But it is worth looking into. Personally, I anticipate regulation and taxation, rather than an outright ban, but who knows the mind of the FDA...

 

[6spdsurfer]

Carbon, what's the stew looking like?

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[CarbonThief]

I forgot to come in here and provide the update! I decided to stop the pg soak after one week. Any longer and there wasn't going to be any significant flavor difference between it and the slow cooker extraction I'm afraid, and I wanted there to be some difference, otherwise there would be no reason to slow extract for all that time (1 month). After one week, compared to the slow cooker extraction x 3 (12 hr, cool, 10 hr, cool, and finally an 8 hr cooker extraction) the taste is a little milder on the tobacco and coconut, but very subtle difference. Except for the smoothness, the pg soak is appreciably smoother. These 6 juices are very similar though, as the amount of extraction used to test them all may have been too high (33.3%) and I may have used more coconut than what I was going for. I anted a slightly sweet, slightly coconut flavored tobacco, and what I got is a rather sweet, moderate coconut tobacco. It's not half bad though! I am quite interested in what the steeping process will do for it, hoping to bring the tobacco to the front and make the coconut more subtle, but who knows. This weekend. When I return home, I will also try a 20% extract mix to se if it is better or not as good.

Thanks for the question and interest!

Edit: by the way, I didn't have the time to send out samples last week but will do so this weekend after I return home, and after I figure out which is better the thirty three percent extract or the twenty.

 

[montara]

I don't know, I might have to re-attempt 'cause I still have over 2lbs of leaf cleaned and ready.
Looking back in my log book, Nov 22 '12 I processed 12 pint jars with 6 different blends and the all have an overwhelming, nasty grass taste.
Bought a bunch from Leaf Only - Aged Dominican Ligero Filler, Aged Burley, Canadian Virgina Flue Cured, Smooth Brightleaf Flue, Sweet Brightleaf Flue, CT Havana. Tried all 6 separate and the other 6 jars were blends. All leafs were rinsed, patted dry, de-vained and cut into nice 1' pieces. 1cup leaf & 400ml PG/VG per pint. Heated some, added 151 Rum or Everclear to some... some with nic, some without... a total mass quantity experiment. Steep time went from 3 > 5 weeks in an stable environment... and all IMO are a FAIL.
Have yet to try the crock pot... awaiting for someone to tell me what I might of done wrong as my days of inhaling grass are long gone.

 

[6spdsurfer]

I forgot to come in here and provide the update! I decided to stop the pg soak after one week. Any longer and there wasn't going to be any significant flavor difference between it and the slow cooker extraction I'm afraid, and I wanted there to be some difference, otherwise there would be no reason to slow extract for all that time (1 month). After one week, compared to the slow cooker extraction x 3 (12 hr, cool, 10 hr, cool, and finally an 8 hr cooker extraction) the taste is a little milder on the tobacco and coconut, but very subtle difference. Except for the smoothness, the pg soak is appreciably smoother. These 6 juices are very similar though, as the amount of extraction used to test them all may have been too high (33.3%) and I may have used more coconut than what I was going for. I anted a slightly sweet, slightly coconut flavored tobacco, and what I got is a rather sweet, moderate coconut tobacco. It's not half bad though! I am quite interested in what the steeping process will do for it, hoping to bring the tobacco to the front and make the coconut more subtle, but who knows. This weekend. When I return home, I will also try a 20% extract mix to se if it is better or not as good.

Thanks for the question and interest!

Edit: by the way, I didn't have the time to send out samples last week but will do so this weekend after I return home, and after I figure out which is better the thirty three percent extract or the twenty.

Awesome man I'm looking forward to it! Just don't forget to add in some photos next time during the process. I'm pretty curious how you did each extraction.

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[6spdsurfer]

I don't know, I might have to re-attempt 'cause I still have over 2lbs of leaf cleaned and ready.
Looking back in my log book, Nov 22 '12 I processed 12 pint jars with 6 different blends and the all have an overwhelming, nasty grass taste.
Bought a bunch from Leaf Only - Aged Dominican Ligero Filler, Aged Burley, Canadian Virgina Flue Cured, Smooth Brightleaf Flue, Sweet Brightleaf Flue, CT Havana. Tried all 6 separate and the other 6 jars were blends. All leafs were rinsed, patted dry, de-vained and cut into nice 1' pieces. 1cup leaf & 400ml PG/VG per pint. Heated some, added 151 Rum or Everclear to some... some with nic, some without... a total mass quantity experiment. Steep time went from 3 > 5 weeks in an stable environment... and all IMO are a FAIL.
Have yet to try the crock pot... awaiting for someone to tell me what I might of done wrong as my days of inhaling grass are long gone.

Man that's a lot of read flavored eJuice haha

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[VaporMizer]

Just as a thought, a possible alternative to whole leaf might be high quality unflavored RYO tobacco blends like some of those offered by D&R Tobacco. That way you would get the benefits of a world class tobacconist and still have unadulterated tobacco to extract.

There are benefits to using a blend over a single leaf even if you want to extract just a particular variety (say, bright Virginia) - mostly consistency of quality and flavor. Already cut too.

 

[MsMacgyver]

Something that might help is to go to the leaf only site, go to the forum and take some notes. I put my order in today after reading through alot of the threads there. I know that people on their forum are rolling and smoking the tobacco but it made sense to me that if a tobacco would smoke sweet that should translate into your juice. I was watching a show this morning, he was making his own salve from witch hazel and olive oil. It was a cold extraction where he put the smash flowers in a mason jar, filled it up with olive oil and left it sit in the sun for about 6 weeks. I will try a cold extraction with all VG since I'm PG sensitive. Very interesting thread going!

 

[Dave Bowser]

I don't know, I might have to re-attempt 'cause I still have over 2lbs of leaf cleaned and ready.
Looking back in my log book, Nov 22 '12 I processed 12 pint jars with 6 different blends and the all have an overwhelming, nasty grass taste.
Bought a bunch from Leaf Only - Aged Dominican Ligero Filler, Aged Burley, Canadian Virgina Flue Cured, Smooth Brightleaf Flue, Sweet Brightleaf Flue, CT Havana. Tried all 6 separate and the other 6 jars were blends. All leafs were rinsed, patted dry, de-vained and cut into nice 1' pieces. 1cup leaf & 400ml PG/VG per pint. Heated some, added 151 Rum or Everclear to some... some with nic, some without... a total mass quantity experiment. Steep time went from 3 > 5 weeks in an stable environment... and all IMO are a FAIL.
Have yet to try the crock pot... awaiting for someone to tell me what I might of done wrong as my days of inhaling grass are long gone.

I am wondering if you might leave them to steep for a week or so and try again. A lot of people say steeping helps smooth out the flavors.

 

[BakuPeg]

I tried this type of extraction on 12/01/12. I ordered three types of tobacco on the leafonly site. I filled 10 half jelly jars 3/4th of the way filled with the prepped tobacco leaves and filled the rest with 12 nic 50/50 vg/pg nic solution. I varied the mixes in each jar and labeled them. They sat on the shelf.

3 weeks later I "peeked" at one. I was expecting to smell something lovely and similar to the aroma of the tobacco leaves. Sadly the scent that came from the wet tobacco leaves that floated on top reminded me of wet cedar + something that reminded me of the scent I got when I cleaned my old ferret's litter box. Still, I let them sit on the shelf. It could get better.

I didn't get around to working with them. My husband grabbed a jar at about a month and a half steep time, used the new atty I bought him at christmas.. Got out a syringe and took 10 MLs out without straining it, just put the needle in a clear (clear = away from the leaves) spot and sucked out 10mls.

Now my husband is not a tobacco fan. But I swear he was dripping that 10mls for a long long long time. He said the VAPE turned out naturally sweet, with a nice light tobacco/cigar taste to it. Not overwhelming. He tried a second mix that tasted like smoke. Like sweet smoke. I bought some cheesecloth and strained 4 of them, I have 6 others to strain and to test. These will make a wonderful tobacco base to make new mixes with, and most of them are good as is.

Its good to experiment with, just don't count on the smell of the liquid to be what the vape tastes like. The wet leaves still smell ferret-like. But I figure all the good stuff is in the liquid!

 

[MsMacgyver]

I tried this type of extraction on 12/01/12. I ordered three types of tobacco on the leafonly site. I filled 10 half jelly jars 3/4th of the way filled with the prepped tobacco leaves and filled the rest with 12 nic 50/50 vg/pg nic solution. I varied the mixes in each jar and labeled them. They sat on the shelf.

3 weeks later I "peeked" at one. I was expecting to smell something lovely and similar to the aroma of the tobacco leaves. Sadly the scent that came from the wet tobacco leaves that floated on top reminded me of wet cedar + something that reminded me of the scent I got when I cleaned my old ferret's litter box. Still, I let them sit on the shelf. It could get better.

I didn't get around to working with them. My husband grabbed a jar at about a month and a half steep time, used the new atty I bought him at christmas.. Got out a syringe and took 10 MLs out without straining it, just put the needle in a clear (clear = away from the leaves) spot and sucked out 10mls.

Now my husband is not a tobacco fan. But I swear he was dripping that 10mls for a long long long time. He said the VAPE turned out naturally sweet, with a nice light tobacco/cigar taste to it. Not overwhelming. He tried a second mix that tasted like smoke. Like sweet smoke. I bought some cheesecloth and strained 4 of them, I have 6 others to strain and to test. These will make a wonderful tobacco base to make new mixes with, and most of them are good as is.

Its good to experiment with, just don't count on the smell of the liquid to be what the vape tastes like. The wet leaves still smell ferret-like. But I figure all the good stuff is in the liquid!

Would you want to share your sweet mixture with me...

 

[hairball]

I used Nicaraguan Seco and Canadian Flue Cured...stuffed bottles to the brim and then filled with 70pg/30vg 12mg mix. I let it steep for roughly 3 months. Strained...best vapes I've encountered yet. I purchased 5 other leaves to try...I'll let you know in 3 months how they turn out.

 

[Sad Society]

I used Nicaraguan Seco and Canadian Flue Cured...stuffed bottles to the brim and then filled with 70pg/30vg 12mg mix. I let it steep for roughly 3 months. Strained...best vapes I've encountered yet. I purchased 5 other leaves to try...I'll let you know in 3 months how they turn out.

Whats up Hairball. Thank You again for the Dream tank Co-op.

Did you mix the two together? What size bottles did you use?

 

[hairball]

Whats up Hairball. Thank You again for the Dream tank Co-op.

Did you mix the two together? What size bottles did you use?

You're welcome. I used Straight Sided Amber Glass Jar 9 oz w/ White Lid. They have a nice wide mouth so stuffing it full is easy. To eliminate air, just fill to the brim, cap, and then wait.