I know I may "stir the wok" here, but I am slightly confused sometimes over the pro-american attitude towards vaping devices and accessories. I am all about supporting my country and such, but some people get really extreme with this it seems. Here's where my questions rise, first off I have had 0 issue's with any of my Chinese stuff. And, I have to say that I have some things like mods and drip shields and such that actually perform better than the american versions, at half the price! I mean, didn't China invent the e-cig anyway? Now, I hear things about idea's being ripped off by them and then with their child labor or whatever they produce the same thing cheaper and run us out of business. But then there are tons of american vendors that are IN business selling Chinese stuff. It just seems a little silly sometimes to me. And, unfortunately there are a lot of budget vapers out there like myself that have other, more important things, to spend their money on. So, if China is going to produce decent-working (even better working IMO) devices and such at half the price, then that is probably the direction I will continue to go. I know there are QC issue's in China, but I can't say as I have complete confidence in our american production either. Unfortunately, american quality in the past has shown most of the time to not stand up very well against the foreign competition in things like electronics, cars, motorcycles, etc. Just my two cents. But maybe someone can shed a new light on this for me, because I really don't get it.
Why Buy American?
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I don't object to buying Chinese-made products at all. As you've noted, most of the e-cig hardware and a lot of the juices come from China anyway. My only issue is with the quality of the Chinese juice and the fact that they haven't managed to get many of the flavors right in terms of the US palate. To me, most Chinese juices have a strong chemical component that makes the organic US-made juices superior in taste. If I couldn't get those (or afford them), I'd happily vape the Chinese juice... not a doubt.
We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to the inventor of the ecig - he was from China.
We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to the inventor of the ecig - he was from China.
There are a lot of reasons, but here are the three big ones. - 1) Quality. US, Canadian, European, and former Soviet Block modders either make quality products or no one buys. 2) Innovation. Without guys and gals like REO, Buzzkill, Breaktru, Hoogie76, Mamu, Most Angry Pirate, Zen, etc etc etc, e-cigs would not be making these giant forward strides in performance. 3) Chinese manufacturing and human rights abuses can stir some emotions... I'll start a new paragraph for #3
If you have never visited a Chinese manufacturing/shipping hub like Shenzhen or Chengdu, then it isn't so easy to understand. 99.999% of the Chinese vaping items you've purchased were made by 12-14 year old Chinese girls earning a few cents an hour or maybe a few dollars a week working 14-18 hour shifts and housed in factory owned dormitories - and paying for their meals, housing, and personal items directly out of their company pay leaving them nearly zero, and sometimes less than zero disposable income. They might be able to leave if they want to, but many are not much better off than slaves. Some people have a serious moral issue with this.
If you have never visited a Chinese manufacturing/shipping hub like Shenzhen or Chengdu, then it isn't so easy to understand. 99.999% of the Chinese vaping items you've purchased were made by 12-14 year old Chinese girls earning a few cents an hour or maybe a few dollars a week working 14-18 hour shifts and housed in factory owned dormitories - and paying for their meals, housing, and personal items directly out of their company pay leaving them nearly zero, and sometimes less than zero disposable income. They might be able to leave if they want to, but many are not much better off than slaves. Some people have a serious moral issue with this.
China doesn't have the regulations and restrictions the US has with manufacturing. It's to the point anything made here just isn't worth marketing by the time you pay for the permits, insurance etc.
I've had terrible luck with anything made in China. If there is an Ecig product made in the US that works as advertised, I'd be happy to pay triple for it.
I've had terrible luck with anything made in China. If there is an Ecig product made in the US that works as advertised, I'd be happy to pay triple for it.
Because if Johnson Creek in Wisconsin poisons me by accident I can sue them or drive over to the store in an angry rage.
When Kwon in China, formerly one of the baby-milk scandel people, poisons me there's nothing I can do.
I got away from Chinese juice long ago. Their Vivi Novas are fine, I'll vape American.
When Kwon in China, formerly one of the baby-milk scandel people, poisons me there's nothing I can do.
I got away from Chinese juice long ago. Their Vivi Novas are fine, I'll vape American.
VERY well said! I agree, I do buy my juice from here, some of that being that I do like the taste and do not prefer to have to order direct from China. I also, for that reason, buy my Chinese hardware from american vendors. And that seems like a decent trade-off in a way. I'm glad to see I am not the only one so anti-China. Maybe some of my aggravation is coming from some local people I know. It's gets old hearing them bash all my Chinese stuff that works as good, or better, than their stuff they paid 2 or 3 times the price for.
I do understand that. But, I hate to say that our e-cig purchases are not going to change the country. Sad but true. In my opinion a lot of us are not doing so well in the area of money in our country. So, maybe if US made stuff would lower their prices they wouldn't be ran out of business by the Chinese kids. It is also sad when I sometimes see an american-made product, made by grown people, that faults more than the Chinese stuff made by children. Know what I'm saying? Just saying.
That's great, IF you have the triple to pay after paying bills, putting food on the table, etc. etc.
This kinda adds to my argument of things costing more in america actually. Again, I guess I am more focused on the hardware not the juice. I do buy american juice (but not for All the reasons you mentioned). And I agree, Vivi Nova kicks .... Haven't found a tank like that for that price american made yet.
You raise good points, Apple is an American company that manufactures in Asia. I tend to buy products that appeal to me most, however I do love it when American Manufactures create nice things that are successful in the market place. For me, I love to see more manufacturing in the USA and buying these products make me feel good. At the end of the day, I buy what appeals to me most...and offers good value for the money!
American e-cig vendors sell Chinese-made products... and it puts money in everyone's pockets. Except for mine, of course.
I buy from everywhere.If I'm looking at a item lets say boge cartos I buy from healthcabin out of china because its the same product for a much lower cost. The cheapest I have found the here is $1.10 each and at HC they are $0.90 each before you add in any of the discounts. But when it comes to my PVs that I like the most comes from here in the U.S. right now. MY provari and Reo Grand are super nice but I do want a GGTS and thats from Greece. And Im looking at a few other PVs from all over the place. So I guess I'm saying that I don't buy from the U.S. I buy from who has the best prices and the best gear.
No, they aren't. But, if the mindset changed a little at a time, it could. This disposable world will catch up to us. I am as guilty as many, but at least I think about it and make an effort.
I do, and I just did put my money where my mouth is.
Just to add another point... How much did you spend on analogs? I feel that a successful switch from smoking to vaping requires atleast that much of an investment for atleast a few months.
I spent 200 dollars a month on cigarettes. That's a bit over a pack a day at 5.50/pack. Once I acquired enough batteries and a good charger, and since I DIY my liquid, and now own a rebuildable atty, I'm going to have to start looking for things to spend money on.
Either way, as far as hardware goes, I spent 120ish on a Silver Bullet/batteries back in Feb. March I bought a Kick and an extender for the SB for around 90. June I spent 130 on GG Penelope. Yes, that's just hardware, but the hardware is supposed to last.
It's also nice to know that if my Silver Bullet breaks, I can hop onto the ECF and send a PM to the fellow that makes them and services them, mail it to him and get it back within a week or so. What happens if my chinese-made-mod breaks? I probably get to buy a new one.
I do think that it's easier to justify 5.50/day to yourself than 200 for something that you may still be using in a year. Which...if you do the math on a year, is something like 0.55$ per day.
I spent 200 dollars a month on cigarettes. That's a bit over a pack a day at 5.50/pack. Once I acquired enough batteries and a good charger, and since I DIY my liquid, and now own a rebuildable atty, I'm going to have to start looking for things to spend money on.
Either way, as far as hardware goes, I spent 120ish on a Silver Bullet/batteries back in Feb. March I bought a Kick and an extender for the SB for around 90. June I spent 130 on GG Penelope. Yes, that's just hardware, but the hardware is supposed to last.
It's also nice to know that if my Silver Bullet breaks, I can hop onto the ECF and send a PM to the fellow that makes them and services them, mail it to him and get it back within a week or so. What happens if my chinese-made-mod breaks? I probably get to buy a new one.
I do think that it's easier to justify 5.50/day to yourself than 200 for something that you may still be using in a year. Which...if you do the math on a year, is something like 0.55$ per day.
Just to add another point... How much did you spend on analogs? I feel that a successful switch from smoking to vaping requires atleast that much of an investment for atleast a few months.
I spent 200 dollars a month on cigarettes. That's a bit over a pack a day at 5.50/pack. Once I acquired enough batteries and a good charger, and since I DIY my liquid, and now own a rebuildable atty, I'm going to have to start looking for things to spend money on.
This is for sure a good point, and I am on your side with this. For I constantly fight people over this issue almost everyday. I do agree that if you were already spending the money on analogs then you could spend that on e-cigs. It's okay to save money vaping, but it does annoy me the people that go in to vaping only to save money. Then, when they maybe don't, they complain and call the whole thing stupid just cause they didn't save a dime. However, in my situation it is a little different, because I was only a half pack a day smoker. I smoked generic that only cost me about 18 bucks a carton. If you do the math on that you can see how much closer that is to matching, or even being cheaper, than keeping a good stock of carto's, juice, batts, etc. However, it is not the comparison of smoking to vaping I am complaining about. It is all the "Chinese Haters" out there that frown upon people saving a few bucks to get sometimes a very respectable mod. Maybe these are the same people that gave me crap about smoking generic cigs back in the day?
As far as if my Chinese mod were to break thing, well, I just recently bought a VMAX from a vendor that promised to uphold the 6 month warranty from SMOK in house. If it breaks, I send it to them in the states and they send me a new one right back. After the warranty expires? Well, it's cheap enough that if I had to buy a new one every year I would be okay with that. Cause in a way, in the two years it would take me to spend the same money on a Provari, that 2 year old Provari's technology and looks and size may be outdated. So, in a sense it may be better to have things that are more "disposable."
How about this then: I hate Walmart. Do you know why? Most of the stuff that they sell is junky. Yep, it's cheap, but the quality could certainly use a boost. I would rather pay a little more to get something nicer that will last longer, but those things are either: Super expensive, or super hard to find. Why? Because nobody buys them anymore. The people that hand make shoes can't afford to sell them at a slight mark-up because they're gonna stay busy. They have to sell them quite a bit higher than that because nobody's buying them. How many Cobbler shops have you seen around?
It's not just that though, that's how our society here has become. Meanwhile there is an outpouring of "Not enough jobs in America!" and people that are blaming corporations for taking their business over seas. It's a bit mind boggling to me that people think that someone should pay an american worker $10/hr to manufacture 15 dollar coffee pots when they can have them made in China for $2/hr. Yes, my numbers aren't factually accurate, but I'm trying to illustrate a point. It's not that the company is trying to make it rich by manufacturing things elsewhere...it's that the prices of everything would go through the roof if it was all made here.
In the US, we have quality standards and all sorts of licenses and taxes and then there's the real estate taxes on your building... I don't imagine that it's nearly that way over in China.
Morally, I would like for our country to be self sufficient and be able to make the crap that we use, but I know that it's not a realistic goal.
The last few generations here don't seem to understand how to spend money. I have a cousin that has an infant...they lived in a house that they were paying mortgage on. One day, not too long before their baby was born, they stopped paying their mortgage and electric bill and all of that. Still have their Xbox and 50 inch TV, and parties once a week. Then they had the baby, moved into an apartment, lived there for...6 months or so and the electric company sent them a bill with the remainder of what their house had....which was something like 2500 dollars. What did they do? Ignored it, moved out of their apartment and in with her dad. What?
On the other hand, my girl and I have a 7 month old. We have a couple government benefits: health insurance for all 3 of us and WIC (which is a food-for-the-baby assistance thing). We live in a 2 bedroom apartment and I'm the only one working. I work 30-40 hrs/week at a truck stop, waiting tables. We've got all our bills paid and money to spare.
What's the difference? We don't think that we NEED everything, and if there's something that we want and can't afford....we wait and get it later. We don't go out to eat very often, we shop at second hand stores, we don't have car payments right now, because mine is paid off. I DIY all my liquids and now have a rebuildable atty so that I won't have to buy Cartos for a very long time (hopefully).
I would rather support the local business instead of going to Wal-Mart, but it's not really plausable on our budget right now...and it's a bloody pain to take the boy out of the car and back in to go to 10 shops for 20 different things.
Ohhh, WALL-O-TEXT! I'm sorry, I got off on a tangent there somewhere... My point was though, I'd rather support local business than Corporate America/Outsourced. If your way of doing that is using local vendors that carry chinese stuff, that's fine with me. If you would rather buy American made mods, through American vendors, even better.
-X
Who even knows what is "American" anymore... toyotas are made in the US and chevy's in Mexico, yet one is AMURRCN and one is FURRN.
With juice, I would put the difference on material rather than nationality: organic flavorings will be better than artificial chemicals, whether they come from the US or China or Azerbaijan. I have used (artificial) flavorings from domestic and foreign sources, and have not had a problem yet. Granted, I am only one man.
America is made great by capitalism, right? That is what the most nationalistic people I know say, anyway. Offer a quality product at the lowest price, and I will buy it. I do not care where it comes from or how it was made. If patriotism saves me money, than I am as patriotic as any man. My KGO's work perfectly and my face is still intact... then again, I am buying a Chinese product from a guy in Indiana, so it is the best of both worlds
With juice, I would put the difference on material rather than nationality: organic flavorings will be better than artificial chemicals, whether they come from the US or China or Azerbaijan. I have used (artificial) flavorings from domestic and foreign sources, and have not had a problem yet. Granted, I am only one man.
America is made great by capitalism, right? That is what the most nationalistic people I know say, anyway. Offer a quality product at the lowest price, and I will buy it. I do not care where it comes from or how it was made. If patriotism saves me money, than I am as patriotic as any man. My KGO's work perfectly and my face is still intact... then again, I am buying a Chinese product from a guy in Indiana, so it is the best of both worlds
I try to buy american whenever I can to support my fellow american support his family. In the case of hardware I choose to buy what I can afford (whether it chineese made or not) from an american vendor. To go online and buy directly from China just doesnt make sense to me it cuts out support to our economy all together and exports every dollar you spend to those that use slave labor to depress our own manufacturing base. Now that being said I understand the economy and that many american families need to save money for the necessities in life but in all reality a few more bucks to support your neighbor pays us all back in terms of economic stimulation. Invest in your community or dont complain about why it is getting harder in America... Just my take on it.
From a practical standpoint... I like supporting people I know and like... and I know Jeso from Vaprlife will stand by my MOD if it breaks... and I know that many of my juice vendors will apologize and refund my juice if I don't care for it...
I tend to associate poor quality with Chinese craftsmanship... so I avoid it...
There are some exceptions... Chinese products are only as good as the company that manufactures them... Guild Guitars are made in China now... They lack the detail and wonderful anomalies that they used to have... but all in all, they are still great guitars and they are almost half the price that they could be... The wood is still top notch... the management of the company and quality control are still "Americans" -
I grew up in a small... bourgeois... ultra educated and socially conscious town... and Walmart tried to get in for 15 years... the city always did everything they could to hinder Walmart - chain stores... chain restaurants... but they were particularly ferocious against Walmart... and for a long time... our town was Walmartless...
Eventually Walmart moved in... and they are blossoming... the parking lot is always full...
All of the chain stores and chain restaurants moved in as well...
In 15 years the mom and pop stores that made ITHACA, NY so unique and friendly decreased by a significant amount...
I don't blame the stores or chains... I don't blame our government... china or capitalism... and it's not hegemony.
I blame us.
It's what WE wanted in the end...
WE wanted to "save" money... we wanted one-stop stores...
WE let it happen much the same way no one looks at porn on the internet despite the fact that it's the most profitable internet business...
"WE" might not be you or me... but we are tied to WE whether we want to be or not.
I am a very dystopic person... less idealistic every year that goes by
I tend to associate poor quality with Chinese craftsmanship... so I avoid it...
There are some exceptions... Chinese products are only as good as the company that manufactures them... Guild Guitars are made in China now... They lack the detail and wonderful anomalies that they used to have... but all in all, they are still great guitars and they are almost half the price that they could be... The wood is still top notch... the management of the company and quality control are still "Americans" -
I grew up in a small... bourgeois... ultra educated and socially conscious town... and Walmart tried to get in for 15 years... the city always did everything they could to hinder Walmart - chain stores... chain restaurants... but they were particularly ferocious against Walmart... and for a long time... our town was Walmartless...
Eventually Walmart moved in... and they are blossoming... the parking lot is always full...
All of the chain stores and chain restaurants moved in as well...
In 15 years the mom and pop stores that made ITHACA, NY so unique and friendly decreased by a significant amount...
I don't blame the stores or chains... I don't blame our government... china or capitalism... and it's not hegemony.
I blame us.
It's what WE wanted in the end...
WE wanted to "save" money... we wanted one-stop stores...
WE let it happen much the same way no one looks at porn on the internet despite the fact that it's the most profitable internet business...
"WE" might not be you or me... but we are tied to WE whether we want to be or not.
I am a very dystopic person... less idealistic every year that goes by
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