Why can't they just leave us alone?

[AngelsBreath]

Can I just say this, I was in the emergency room a couple of weeks ago because I thought I was having a heart attack lol. Well, turns out that I got choked on my spit in my sleep and pulled a couple of chest muscles coughing, that's why I lol. The doctor asked me if I was a smoker. I honestly told her that no, I had quit smoking and gone to vaping instead. She praised me and told me that because I had quit smoking the analogs that my risk factor for heart attack was at 0 considering my blood work and all the tests she had run on me that night. She also said that my risk from getting cancer due to smoking issues was also at 0. She condones the e-cigs 100% and wishes all her smoking patients would start using them. She asked me, as an ex-smoker if I would try to tell more smokers about them.

The government chooses a handful of doctors that don't like the e-cigs and makes there cases based on those few opinions. This doctor told me that 98% of the doctors she knows wish that more people would go to these and leave the analogs alone.

 

[generic mutant]

You can read more about that here...
http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-study-documents-health-effects-from.html

Interesting, but hardly decisive. I don't doubt that there are a lot of discredited studies out there, published by people with axes to grind or financial interest in an outcome. But if you type "nicotine carcinogen" or "nicotine angiogenesis" into google scholar, you'll come up with all kinds of contradictory stuff. I'm not qualified to decide which parts of it to believe - I suspect the truth is a lot of it is simply undecided.

All I'm saying is I think it's wrong (on the balance of the evidence I've read) to say "Nicotine doesn't cause cancer". There's a decent amount of evidence that it might, perhaps more that it promotes already existing tumours rather than causing them outright.

 

[Troy421]

I agree it sucks I thought America was the land of the Free that's a lie fo sure!!!

 

[AngelsBreath]

I agree it sucks I thought America was the land of the Free that's a lie fo sure!!!

We are free, free to do what the government wants us to do. lol

 

[AngelsBreath]

I have to wonder why the government panders to the few cry babies instead of listening to the masses.

 

[SilentScreams]

You really want to know why they are pressing this issue? It gives the public something else to focus on while they sneak in other things that they don't want us to know about.

As long as they keep the public focused hard core on the "issue" of vaping they can sneak in all kinds of things which most people wont pay any mind to because they are to focused on the vaping "issue".

 

[Whosback]

How dare you compare vaping to coffee! Vaping is an ADDICTION, coffee is not. Why I've had 12 cups today and I'm not addicted one bit!
:looks over at empty coffee pot and begins to twitch:
As soon as I was out of coffee I started drinking coke and when I'm done with that ill have a few beers. It's what I do every single day. I'm pure and clean and godly.
Now I have to call my therapist I can't find my cellphone and I'm not sure if ill make it.

 

[selkirk24]

I just had to chime in on this thread. You have all these people that say what we are doing is bad for us and them, yet, some states are now passing laws making pot smoking legal. Now something does not sound right about this, lol

 

[Horselady154]

Why can't everyone just leave us the hell alone? I quit smoking because I felt like a criminal doing it. I would go out and hide in the bushes if I was in public scared to death that I may "offend" someone. I felt like a criminal, they kept yelling "you're killing us with your second hand smoke" So I quit, I went to an e-cig, minding my own business, not "killing" anyone anymore. Now it's..."shame on me again" I'm nothing more than an addict, never mind that they can't push away from the table or live without their coffee or their diet drinks or their cell phones that are zapping the hell out of everyone, no, those are clean pure things and not bad for you. Really? Seriously? C'mon people, you are as addicted as I am, to your caffeine and your pie and your overeating or your cokes and all the other stuff that is bad for you. You are just holier than thou and think your addictions are ok. Right, keep on telling yourself that.

LEAVE ME ALONE

You enjoy your vices and let me enjoy mine dammit. I'm fed up with the lot of you looking down your nose at me while stuffing your faces with all the chemicals they put in that "healthy" food you eat and drinking your two pots of coffee a day. I don't walk on water but guess what...neither do you. LEAVE ME ALONE!

Rant over, stepping off my soapbox now.

 

[Horselady154]

I have to wonder why the government panders to the few cry babies instead of listening to the masses.

They shouldn't be doing either. In the U.S. at least, they are supposed to abide by their oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution and that document does not give the federal government the authority to do at least 80% of what they now have their noses stuck into.

We were all supposed to have the inalienable right to do whatever we dang well pleased, unless we are infringing on someone else's individual liberty. Maybe one day the people will figure it out, learn some history, or something and get the government back in their constitutional corral. Until then, well, we allowed this to happen and we are reaping the outcome.

 

[Richard75]

All I'm saying is I think it's wrong (on the balance of the evidence I've read) to say "Nicotine doesn't cause cancer". There's a decent amount of evidence that it might, perhaps more that it promotes already existing tumours rather than causing them outright.

There is no scientific, peer reviewed evidence that nicotine causes anything more than increased blood pressure and the jitters. Yes, it's a poison... but not a carcinogen. Just because you've read some people say that it does, or might, does not make the situation "questionable". It's Bertrand Russell's teapot - if you state there is a teapot whizzing around the earth, and I don't believe you, it's your duty to prove it, not mine to disprove it. And indeed it is foolish to believe it without evidence.

So I believe it is not wrong to say "nicotine doesn't cause cancer", because we've yet to view it cause cancer. It's correlation, not causation - a lot like aluminum and alzheimers. What you're reading is politics. I'm talking science, and in science you need verification to make a claim. These people have none!

 

[HK-47]

Nicotine poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Toxicology

The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 0.5-1.0 mg/kg can be a lethal dosage for adult humans, and 0.1 mg/kg for children.[2][4] Nicotine therefore has a high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as ......., which in mice has an LD50 of 95.1 mg/kg. A person can overdose on nicotine through a combination of nicotine patches, nicotine gum, nicotine inhaler cartridges and/or tobacco smoking at the same time.[5][6] Spilling an extremely high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can result in intoxication or even death since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream from dermal contact.[7]
Prognosis

The prognosis is typically good when medical care is provided. It has been stated that if a patient survives nicotine poisoning during the first 4 hours, they usually recover completely.[8]

It basically takes the nicotine equivalent of 30-40 cigarettes, or highly concentrated nicotine to be spilled on the skin and absorbed dermally to be able to pose a risk of death from nicotine poisoning.

Other, very terrible and gut-wrenching side effects include:

Vomiting and nausea, ........
Headaches
Fainting
Difficulty breathing
Pallor
Sweating
Palpitations
Lisps
Stomach pains/cramps/bloating
Seizures
Weakness
Drooling

Sounds a lot less harmful than the paragraph long list of side effects present in most FDA approved drugs, which often include suicidal thoughts or actions.

 

[HK-47]

Continuation: TLDR version, nicotine is about as harmful as caffeine on average in doses you're likely to be reasonably exposed to outside of DIY of your own juice. If you're doing that, you should know enough to use safety gear.

They're both stimulants that actually act in a rather similar fashion in most regards.

 

[gal66stang]

You go Sexy!!! (And everyone else on the post too!)

When our elected officials/law makers can quit their addiction to special interest money and large campaign contributions, when they can quit politic'ing for their entire terms and get to the governance that they were elected to provide, when they can get out of my refridgerator, bedroom, backyard and my wallet...I will consider what they suppose about my addiction to nicotine.

The hypocrisy in a system that speaks out both sides of its mouth (all the while hoping that we are not paying attention to the big bank, big tobacco, big pharma company that paid for the "study" that they are quoting from while their own pockets/campaign accounts are lined by the same money) well that hypocrisy gets on my very last nerve!

The only thing legislators care about more than money???? Votes....time for a good old fashioned grass roots movement and for each of us to start an email/letter writing campaign. Get your family and your friends to write letters too!

UHG - this gets my blood boiling! Probably cause I am not getting a sufficient amount of nicotine throughout the day now that I cannot VAPE on company property! Not even in MY car in the parking lot. Bitter, no I am not Bitter - color me "...... with a cause"!

 

[Whosback]

There is no scientific, peer reviewed evidence that nicotine causes anything more than increased blood pressure and the jitters. Yes, it's a poison... but not a carcinogen. Just because you've read some people say that it does, or might, does not make the situation "questionable". It's Bertrand Russell's teapot - if you state there is a teapot whizzing around the earth, and I don't believe you, it's your duty to prove it, not mine to disprove it. And indeed it is foolish to believe it without evidence.

So I believe it is not wrong to say "nicotine doesn't cause cancer", because we've yet to view it cause cancer. It's correlation, not causation - a lot like aluminum and alzheimers. What you're reading is politics. I'm talking science, and in science you need verification to make a claim. These people have none!

It's the same when they talk about the addictive properties of nicotine in e-cigs. People tend to confuse it with the addiction levels of cigs and not nicotine on its own. Now I'm not saying that nicotine is not addictive, it is. If it was as addictive as a cig on its own no methods of stepping down nic levels would work at all, think about all the times we tried to some one cig less a day till we quit. However nobody tries to make this distinction at all.

 

[HK-47]

Additition: Nicotine present in analog cigs is also more addictive, or at least faster, because there are chemicals that speed the absorption of nicotine into the bloodstream as well.

 

[Richard75]

Continuation: TLDR version, nicotine is about as harmful as caffeine on average in doses you're likely to be reasonably exposed to outside of DIY of your own juice. If you're doing that, you should know enough to use safety gear.

They're both stimulants that actually act in a rather similar fashion in most regards.

If you look at the chemical structure (the actual molecules), they're extremely similar too. Now, my degree is in chemistry, so I can't be foolish enough to say structurally similar chemicals act in similar ways (the difference between methanol and ethanol, for example, is a single hydrocarbon - when ingested, the former makes you blind, and the latter is vodka ), BUT the similarity shouldn't be ignored.

It's the same when they talk about the addictive properties of nicotine in e-cigs. People tend to confuse it with the addiction levels of cigs and not nicotine on its own. Now I'm not saying that nicotine is not addictive, it is. If it was as addictive as a cig on its own no methods of stepping down nic levels would work at all, think about all the times we tried to some one cig less a day till we quit. However nobody tries to make this distinction at all.

Oh, I believe nicotine is very addictive. Some of it a psychologically dependent on smoking, no doubt (like the oral fixation), but the neurological effects of nicotine are pretty well documented. But that's what stepdown is, you essentially wean yourself off so you don't experience withdrawal. Nicotine, if I'm correct, passes through your body pretty quickly, which is why people jones for it more frequently.

My issue is that people blame nicotine for the harm cigarettes cause, only because it was present at the time. It's like someone dying from a heart attack while watching Steamboat Willie, and everyone laying the blame on Mickey.

 

[Kabooma]

awesome topic

Here's a short easy story. About 10 years ago, I was smoking a PAD, had a miserable retail job, had to go outside of course to a terrible location just for us smokers.. was in a spot with a heavy cross-breeze, really out of the way, but still on a sidewalk.. anyways.. having a bad day, and old couple is walking past, and the woman starts that pretend coughing and frantically waving the imaginary smoke in front of her face, and makes the usual snide remark, "smoking is bad for you, and dangerous!" Grrrrr! I just glared at her and snapped back "yeah, well, so is walking around projecting your morals onto people you don't know"....

They scuttled away rather quickly..

 

[steelshoe552]

Couldnt agree with the op more. Vaping is harming no one yet is still looked down upon. I feel like it has saved my life yet still catch hell about it...it is insane for sure

 

[Whosback]

It's never easy to look at yourself and admit your faults, then work to improve them. It's much easier to vilify others and make often false judgments about how they live, that way you can feel better about yourself without having to do any real work. Moral superiority is the energy drink of the human soul, it makes you feel okay for a bit, but it doesn't do you any real good.