Why do ex-smokers hate us? A psychoanalysis

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stern

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Most people who quit are somewhat older. To many, the damage has been done. Unfortunately, and it pains me to say this, but many people who quit will die or be affected from smoking related illness. It's never too late to quit smoking, but it can be too late to negate the negative effects of decades of toxic smoke inhalation.

How does an older person find the will to quit when the damage may have already been done?

One word: "Nicodemon."

If one makes quitting about the freedom from nicotine, rather than the freedom from smoking related illness, this problem of consciousness is resolved. By focusing on their freedom from nicotine addiction, one can ignore the, in my opinion, true reason to quit: not dying.

This is evidenced by the focus on being free from habit, rather than being free from illness! I was rather amazed at this personally. You see, as one who was in the field of addiction psychology, I can tell you that nicotine addiction pales in comparison to: say, ...... or (OTHER STUFF) addiction?

If cigarettes weren't so damn toxic, the habit would only be slightly worse than a caffeine habit...in other words, quite manageable.

So maybe you see now where the e-cig can present such a threat? The whole concept behind the e-cig is to deliver nicotine without the harmful effects of burnt plant matter (smoke) inhalation.

What does this mean? I think it means that the e-cig presents the reality that quitting is about health, more so than addiction. The addiction is what keeps us inhaling smoke, so clearly it is important...but ONLY because it keeps us smoking. What I mean is, I agree with "stop the addiction to stop the smoking" FAR more than "stop the addiction to stop the addiction."

The latter philosophy is clearly more prevalent in stop smoking communities. And I think the reason for this is that people do not want to think about the damage they have done, which any individual would be uncomfortably aware of IF it were about their health. Therefore, they make it about the addiction itself. Hence why nicotine is SO demonized.

So by using the e-cig, or even bringing it up, one in effect causes cognitive dissonance in these individuals. People are strongly adverse to painful thoughts, and will go to lengths to avoid them.

They claim that "we just want you to stop rubbing this alternative deliver system in our face!" The truth, in my opinion is more: "We are fearful of the damage we have done, so please stop pointing out that quitting is for health, and not addiction!"



It could also have to do with jealousy. Or more specific, people who are not really 100% over smoking.

I see the people who come to the e-cig forums to bash us as not being 100% sure of their quit. The e-cig, if not bad for you, is a threat to them. They may say they do not want to smoke, but then why come to a supportive community? I would bet that many HOPE that the e-cig is bad, so that they will feel less tempted by it. Hence why people seem to religiously claim how bad they are, without presenting any scientific evidence.


Then there is the Mt. Everest elevator complex (ha! like I didn't just make it up :p)

If you had just climbed Mt. Everest, how would you feel about an elevator to the summit being discovered at base camp? Now anyone can reach the summit with a simple click of a button!

My guess, people who climbed Mt. Everest would not only dislike, but would feel threatened by the elevator, as it allows an easy way up, when one had taken the hard way. Assuming attempts to close the elevator failed, those who climbed for real would then belittle the elevator and those who use it.

I could go on. So I'll leave it at the first two points that came to mind.

But my main point is that we should in no way feel offended by this type of hostility. It is simply a case of (former?)addicts rationalizing their choices, far more so than anything to do with us.

EDIT to add that I agree that vaping cannot be completely safe. My bad, I assumed that was the agreed consensus. Didn't mean to imply that they were. Prob should have put 'comparatively most likely' before!
 
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mylose64

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Nice article, I can agree with a lot of points your make, but I have a few questions.

Do you really consider nicotine to be slightly worse than a caffeine habit?

You say you are in the field of addiction psychology, what is the psychological toll of nicotine addiction or any addiction for that matter?

Although we have eliminated the physical harm, what about psychological harm?
 

stern

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Jun 26, 2012
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Nice article, I can agree with a lot of points your make, but I have a few questions.

Do you really consider nicotine to be slightly worse than a caffeine habit?

You say you are in the field of addiction psychology, what is the psychological toll of nicotine addiction or any addiction for that matter?

Although we have eliminated the physical harm, what about psychological harm?

First, I will say that I am NO MD. Therefore, my statement on nicotine is purely my opinion.....

From everything I have read, nicotine in and of itself is in my opinion not terribly harmful for a healthy individual. For those with existing tumors, there is some evidence that nicotine can accelerate their growth. There is also some evidence that that stimulating effects of nicotine can cause trouble for those with circulatory or heart conditions- similar to caffeine.

The real danger of nicotine, in my opinion, is that it causes users to seek it. This usually means inhaling combusted plant matter.


But as for the habit itself, I don't see it as being terribly harmful. I was just given an infraction for specifically mentioning the street name of a different drug, so I'll just refer to them, as you did, as other addictions.

I have seen what people do to support their other addictions. Never have I seen anything relatively close with nicotine. For example, how many of you have offered a quarter when asking to bum a smoke? How many times do people commit armed robbery to fund their nicotine addiction? How often are relationships ruined based on the nicotine addiction alone? How many people drop out of school or society to pursuit their nicotine habit? And how many people end up in prison chasing their nicotine fix? I'm not just talking about the illegality of other drugs, but the activities associated with acquiring said drugs.


Here is another point to consider: Rehabs and AA/NA allow smoking.

The psychological toll of other addictions is wayyyy beyond the scope of what I was saying. It could fill PAGES LOL.

But that's a good question. What is the toll of nicotine addiction? I think you can answer that one based on your own experiences. I would assume for most that it mostly involves around the associated health effects of smoking.

The biggest psychological harm I can think of is missing it while on a transcontinental flight.

There are some theories that nicotine addiction can promote addictive patterns of thinking, and changes in the reward pathways in the brain.....but as far as I know, they are just that, theories.


There really hasn't been too much study into the psychological harm of nicotine dependence. I think this is because there are far bigger fish to fry in this area of research. I don't recall a single word in my txtbooks devoted to this. But who knows?
 
Some of the smoker hate seems to come from the fact that this is "too easy." Anybody who quit cold turkey and went through the dizziness, depression, shakiness, testiness, and so on hates us for getting off the cigs that easily. Not that I'm quite there yet, although at this point it's been 26 hours or so since my last cig and I don't have any desire for one. If I do, I'll have a bit of one to take the edge off; that number is rapidly falling and the time between rising.

So far, this is the only method I've ever tried that left me feeling exactly the same as I did before (just with a cleaner mouth and less stuffy nose).

I'm not a scientist and don't study this stuff, but I tend to equate the harm of an addition as the sum of the harm to yourself and others, including those not directly or indirectly exposed to the chemicals.

As a smoker, harm to myself was moderate (nothing like some other addictions, but building over time, of course). Harm to those around me in my direct airspace was modest to low. Harm to those not directly exposed was zero. Smoking and driving isn't on anybody's radar because nicotine doesn't, in and of itself, cause accidents. I wasn't knocking over a 7-11 to get my fix, I have a paycheck and a debit card.

As a vaper, harm to myself is low to very low. Harm to those in my airspace is very low to nil. Harm to anybody not directly exposed is zero. My credit card occasionally makes a strange groaning sound, but again...no need to knock over a 7-11.
 

Huffelpuff

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Thank you for posting your thoughts. I'm not a clinician (nor terribly educated on the subject) but am really fascinated by the psychological effects of smoking cessation. This may sound like a silly observation, but many vapers (myself included) find themselves fascinated by the hardware. I've found that there are a disproportinate number of vapors who are like me.. magpies.. attracted to all things shiny and vape related.

Do you have any theories about the transference of the addiction to cigarettes (or the behavioral rituals associated with smoking?) to a quasi addiction to vape stuff?

Just curious. This question has just been niggling at me and would love to hear an educated response.

If this post makes absolutely no sense I apologize, but I swear that there is a point in there somewhere :vapor:
 
BTW...nobody has said e-cigs are completely safe. It IS best to neither smoke nor vape, IMO. I just haven't been able to "not vape". lol. :)

This is actually a really important point. For my personal risk analysis, I set the harm level at 1 part in 100 of smoking (yes, we can argue that one until the cows come home and I'm probably high on my estimate).

Still, if I'd vaped for 25 years instead of smoked, conservatively I would have done about 0.25 years' worth of smoking damage. Or, my systems could probably heal that faster than it was being caused.

If my nieces suddenly started vaping at the age of 18 there would be Words Spoken. I'd prefer to see them vape about 100x more than smoke, but I'd 1,000,000x prefer they just breathe air, thanks. I'd probably get the same response that any 18 year old gives one of those foolish "old" people, but that's OK.
 
is taking a helicopter to the top of everest considered cheating?

That depends. What was your goal?

If the goal is to get to the top of Everest by whatever means, then no. If it was to climb Everest, then yes.

Some of the ex-smoker negativity to vaping is that they fail to ask what your personal goal is...they assume that, like them, you wish to quit nic consumption. Taking the helicopter means you cheated.

To you, you arrived at the same place (not smoking) via the exact method you chose and you didn't cheat.
 

steved5600

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They are purist. They quit without a CRUTCH........ I see that in my other addiction sometimes you'll hear someone say their not a real (fill in the blanki). Ex smokers are the worst non smokers. Deep inside maybe they resent us because we get to have a bit of fun while getting off that stuff rather than doing the white knuckle thing.
 

TigerLadyTX

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My husband is a non-smoker. He smoked for about 35 years before he quit.. and he quit cold turkey. Not ONCE has he ever said, or intimated to me that I use my e-cig is a crutch. He is just tickled pink that I quit smoking.. and that his mom, my brother, our son, his sister-in-law, my best friend, my sister, my best friend's daughter, my aunt, and so many other family members have quit smoking by using an e-cig. He likes to guess what we are vaping by the smell of the vapor.

My step - dad, OTOH, at first said that we were all still "smoking" by using an e-cig. After repeatedly getting snarled at for that assertion, he finally just says nothing about it at all. LOL

~Tiger
 
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mylose64

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Here is another point to consider: Rehabs and AA/NA allow smoking.

Lol I never understood that. I have a good friend in AA and I went to a few meetings with them. I used to ask "why are they chain smoking all the time? Their addicts right? shouldn't they quit cigarettes too?" I don't have a personal problem with it, I just always wondered. That's actually why I asked those questions, because it seems that quitting alcohol was possible, but these people hard a much harder time quitting cigarettes. They say "alcohol is a deadly disease" but so is cigarette addiction >_>
 

zuzette

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part of it is our antismoking training
in abstinence training we have been taught "cigarettes are bad and you only want a cigs for the nicotine ". we are left with the impression that nicotine is the devil in cigarettes. if the discussion had been expanded to include "nicotine, while being the addictive property, is not bad" former smokers might have a different view.
 

Bullette the Cowdog

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Thank you for posting your thoughts. I'm not a clinician (nor terribly educated on the subject) but am really fascinated by the psychological effects of smoking cessation. This may sound like a silly observation, but many vapers (myself included) find themselves fascinated by the hardware. I've found that there are a disproportinate number of vapors who are like me.. magpies.. attracted to all things shiny and vape related.

Do you have any theories about the transference of the addiction to cigarettes (or the behavioral rituals associated with smoking?) to a quasi addiction to vape stuff?

Just curious. This question has just been niggling at me and would love to hear an educated response.

If this post makes absolutely no sense I apologize, but I swear that there is a point in there somewhere :vapor:
@huffelpuff
Your post makes lots of sense to me.
I will only speak for myself here. I have a tendency to get obsessed with stuff. If I smoke, I smoke 3 packs/day. If I drink, I drink till drunk. If I find a subject interesting, I research it to death. If I find a hobby enjoyable, I work at it for hours with no sleep or food.
Therefore, as a vaper, I cannot stop perusing ECF & reading about mods & nic juices.
The question is: was I born with this obsessive tendency leading to nicotine addiction? Or did the nicotine addiction somehow change my brain?
 

JENerationX

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I have a friend and coworker who came to me with a massive cigarette addiction. She'd had health issues and needed to get off the smokes but didn't think it was possible.... but had seen me pick up a PV and stop smoking. She was able to quit within about a month, then started lowering nicotine. Now she's off everything, including the PV. She belongs to another site..... where she is getting flack for using anything at all. I still don't get it. If the goal is to stop smoking, the e-cig works. If the goal is to stop or lower nic, that can be done. If the goal is to stop vaping, well.... that can be done too. The difference between us and the anti-nicdemon folks is that we've accepted vaping for what it is.... a tool to reduce harm. I've gone and read some of the responses to her, and they all seem like extremely uptight angry folks. They've given up something, and they're ...... about it because it seems like vapers are happy. Maybe they would embrace us if we walked around miserable all the time because we'd given up smoking. :laugh:

I've reduced my nic down to 6mg. I have nothing against higher nic, I just ordered the wrong amount 6 instead of 12 one day and realized I can be perfectly happy with 6, so that's what I use. Will I ever give up vaping? Hmmmmmm hard to say. Probably not, unless something is ever proven to cause harm and then I'll look at my options and make my own decision.
 

DC2

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There are definitely a lot of ex-smokers who dislike the electronic cigarette because it is a temptation.
And I feel sorry for those people because they still want to smoke.

But that temptation would be there with or without the electronic cigarette.
And I personally feel that those people probably SHOULD start using an electronic cigarette.

I know I would hate to live the rest of my life wishing I could have a cigarette.


On the other hand, there are some people who at least claim they are truly free from cigarettes.
Of course, this assumes that they truly do not really ever have a desire for a cigarette.

So for the sake of discussion, let's assume such people really do exist.
:)

Anyway, these people hate electronic cigarettes perhaps even more than those that are just tempted by them.

They hate them because they think they prevent people from achieving the freedom they claim to have found.
They hate them because they feel you are still a slave to your addiction.
And they hate them because they think they might be dangerous.

Well, as others have said, I have no problem being a slave to my desire to vape.
I have no problem spending money on vaping as if it were just another hobby that I enjoy.
I have no problem dealing with any hassles that go along with vaping because it is something I desire.

I guess the difference is that being "truly free" doesn't interest me in the least.
 
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oxygen thief

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Most people who quit are somewhat older. To many, the damage has been done. Unfortunately, and it pains me to say this, but many people who quit will die or be affected from smoking related illness. It's never too late to quit smoking, but it can be too late to negate the negative effects of decades of toxic smoke inhalation.

It doesn't have to be too late, my friend had a heavy smoking habit and died of lung cancer at 30. My uncle quit smoking in his fifties and died of lung cancer in his 80's. Don't think that because you smoked for ten years and quit when you were 30 that the changes in your lung tissue and pre-cancerous cells went poof. I quit at 59, the age my father died of lung cancer. Do I think vaping will erase the damage? I think I know where I stand. It doesn't pain me to say that today, more ex-smokers die from lung cancer than current smokers. I learned that two years ago doing research as my brother was dying at 63. And the unfortunate 10% that die of lung cancer having never smoked. What does one do?
I could have cared less if I smoked myself to death. Ecigs are just better than smoking. If they weren't, Marlboro Lights please.
 

oxygen thief

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Lol I never understood that. I have a good friend in AA and I went to a few meetings with them. I used to ask "why are they chain smoking all the time? Their addicts right? shouldn't they quit cigarettes too?" I don't have a personal problem with it, I just always wondered. That's actually why I asked those questions, because it seems that quitting alcohol was possible, but these people hard a much harder time quitting cigarettes. They say "alcohol is a deadly disease" but so is cigarette addiction >_>

Naive? You were an addict why do you vape? I mean it's an addiction too. I have many AA friends who were on much more than booze. They quit drinking, doing the other, smoking, eating junk food and exercised. True success stories but most people can't do that.
My mother had 18 years sobriety, 18 chips, but she had no intention of quitting smoking. From where I stand, getting off of booze is much easier than cigarettes and that's why some recovering alcoholics smoke. I've been in meetings where many people struggled with smoking and didn't want it anymore. Different strokes for different folks.
Many people don't stop drinking till the low bottom reality hits that they will or have lost everything. Smoking lets you hold onto those things longer, then kills you.

Must add one thing. I learned a long time ago that it's not what this or that person does or doesn't do. In this case, the people are doing a very hard thing, quitting drinking. Yet many will judge their other shortcomings and say why. I've learned that it isn't their problem that I'm to judge because it's the judging that is the biggest problem. They do one thing right, we sit back and judge that they should do more. Jesus taught that when the villagers were about to stone a prostitute to death. He saved her without judging her.
 
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