Why is e-liquid selling at such high prices ?

[Myk]

So funny! The cost of running a business today requires the markup if you want to be profitable. These juice vendors are not moving the amount of product you think they are. Stick to signing the back of your check you don't have what it takes to be the one signing the front....

Once again you say nothing.
"The markup"???
Like there's one set markup liquid makers charge? (Obviously not when you have someone the size of Johnson Creek charging around $20/30ml and smaller companies charging less.)

I'm obviously not talking about liquid makers. It wouldn't do them any good to use liquid to get people into their store to buy more liquid. I'm talking about B&M's who DIY and charge like they were a liquid maker or more.

The only backs of checks I sign are those handed over to me by my customers and it's been that way for over 20 years. Perhaps it's you who should stick to signing the backs of your paycheck. They way you constantly say nothing, hiding behind profit margins and "the markup" says you don't know what you think you do.

 

[Sl4gathor]

I am gonna have to agree with the OP here, I been wondering this for a while....
My favorite juice, which will remain nameless, if I were to purchase a gallon, I know I know, a gallon, but, it would cost over 1900 clams, 1955.79 to be exact, one thousand nine hundred fifty five and I thought gas was expensive...
It cant cost anything near that to make, I wouldnt believe it unit I seen the receipts....
Even that really cheap stuff I just got, that actually was pretty good, is 566.23 a gallon for the turkish blend, it can be made DIY, I know not everyone will DIY or wants the hassel, for far less then 30 bucks for 120ml ($11.54).

I am all for capitalism and making a good living on something you put time in and worked on, but daym, thats a hell of a markup.....

 

[oncebitten]

Supply, demand... I have a two degrees. One of which is business and this is a perfect example of an economics class.

 

[ClintS]

Fact - Many are afraid to stand up and point out the emperor has no clothes for fear of being told they don't know what's good.

From what I know and read of those around vaping there seems to be no problem of this. In fact they expect Dom Pérignon quality for Martini & Rossi Asti prices, and there better not be any faults with the product at that!

Or they will look at you and swear that their bottle of Mogan David's MD 20/20 is the best thing on earth and no one can disagree because taste is subjective. LOL

Come to think of it, it has been like 45 years since I had a bottle of Boones Farm Apple Wine - does anyone make an inexpensive juice that taste the same? I would only pay a price commiserate with the price of the wine though - so maybe $1.00/15ml.

 

[amolson]

Yup, economics 101. (Actually, more specifically, game theory) There are two main ways to set prices. One is whatever the buyers will pay. The other is to have some power from above set the prices.

Personally, I prefer the first, as it eventually sets the lowest prices. (Everyone from Adam Smith to Shapley) If two businesses put out the same product and one charges more, the one charging more will sell less or none, forcing them to either lower their prices or eventually price themselves out of the market. It has nothing to do with the cost to manufacture the product.

Monopolistic practices are not an issue in an unregulated market with such insanely low barriers to entry. Quite honestly, if DIY is so cheap, why don't YOU make large batches and sell it. Just like if you don't agree with the prices, such as with the B&M shops that are mixing on site, don't buy from them. That service isn't worth what they're charging to you.

Guess I don't see where the point is here. No one is forcing anyone to pay x amount for y juice. There's nothing stopping anyone from charging 15 cents a mil, $1.50 a mil or $15 if they're really daft. And the only way to stop juice vendors from setting their prices to whatever the market will bear is to nationalize it. That doesn't seem like an improvement to me.

So do you want government pricing? Myself, no way in hell. I think it's great that the juice market is thriving and growing without external regulation. With groups like AEMSA and CASAA, it seems to be doing just fine taking care of itself.

 

[ukeman]

Since '09 when i started, i was usually disappointed with 95% of the juice i bought but the PV and atomizers back then were not as good as today; pro juice is better today too imo.

I waited too long to try DIY; it does take some time and $ to get over the first hump or two in the learning curve, but once you get a groove on, its too darn easy to make a simple but great DIY juice.

After a year of DIY, I've gotten close, but not up to par with my favorite pro juices.
So what i do is take my best imitations and add about 10-20% of the pro juice to it... bingo!
In fact i prefer it since I chain vape about 20ml a day of 4mg nic and I find the pro juice a bit strong all day long anyway.

I recommend it to anyone who over-obsesses with vaping anyway; it's a lot of fun.

 

[Cullin Kin]

It really sucks the prices are so high. I'm hooked on this Festival from Reign Drops but it's $27.71 in store for 30 mL and online for two bottles plus shipping, $58.81. And I easily go through 5 mL a day. <--- My life right there.

 

[amolson]

I recommend it to anyone who over-obsesses with vaping anyway; it's a lot of fun.

That's where I am. I have a whole set of flavors I want to get in the fall to start playing with my own flavors. It's far cheaper than messing with equipment, that's for sure.

 

[egrets]

I don't really have a problem with regular online prices at least from the few I ordered from, and there's always coupons for online purchases also. But it becomes a problem when I first started vaping and bought eliquid from a b&m near by. It's like almost $16 including tax for 15ml, and I vaped about 6 ml a day, so that only lasts me about 2.5 days. A month worth would be about $190 so that's close to how much I spent on buying cigarettes when I was smoking, and that doesn't include the price for mod/batteris/atty/wick/wire, etc. I understand the cost and overhead, but for my situation and finances, I can't continue to go to the b&m and just buy online now. I got some diy supplies to start when my pre-mixed eliquid are getting low also to save even more.

There's definitely a price for conveniences and business exists to make a profit. I just now choose to make a choice that's more suitable to my situation.

 

[Tangaroav]

I ask the question and I give the answer that IMO is right.

The proposed e-cig regulations, in the USA/Europe/Canada/..etc concern mostly E-liquid. Who's to gain from this intrusion in our personnal freedom ?

It is a given that DIY e-liquid is very easy to do for even the less skilful of vapers, (if you can mix a drink, bake a cake or do simple cooking you can DIY e-liquids).

Regulations will probably prevent DIY for most of us. Who will profit most from regulations ?

The e-liquid merchants who will continue to make huge profits on cheap and easy to mix e-liquids. So, I am very perplexed when I see and hear that the e-liquid merchants are against regulations. Ultimatly by preventing DIY, THEY are the ones who will profit the most from those dreaded regulations.

I am not surprised that those two inept reps from Blue and Njoy did not offer any resistance to that e-cig hearing . They want it, badly !

 

[Lurch]

I ask the question and I give the answer that IMO is right.

The proposed e-cig regulations, in the USA/Europe/Canada/..etc concern mostly E-liquid. Who's to gain from this intrusion in our personnal freedom ?

It is a given that DIY e-liquid is very easy to do for even the less skilful of vapers, (if you can mix a drink, bake a cake or do simple cooking you can DIY e-liquids).

Regulations will probably prevent DIY for most of us. Who will profit most from regulations ?

The e-liquid merchants who will continue to make huge profits on cheap and easy to mix e-liquids. So, I am very perplexed when I see and hear that the e-liquid merchants are against regulations. Ultimatly by preventing DIY, THEY are the ones who will profit the most from those dreaded regulations.

I am not surprised that those two inept reps from Blue and Njoy did not offer any resistance to that e-cig hearing . They want it, badly !

While I basically agree with your statement, I think the reason B&M, and even the "big" juice producers, who make their own juice for sale are against the proposed regulations is the fact that the possible requirements for doing so would be cost prohibitive for them. I would envision a whole set of regulations that would significantly increase their overhead and possibly prevent many from staying in business due to the initial and on-going cost to meet the requirements.

NJoy and Blu on the other hand are a different story. They already have backing from industries that deal with many of these regulations already and have the financial backing.

As for DIY, I think the problem we will encounter is the obtaining nicotine...

 

[DaveP]

Anything is more expensive when someone does it for you. The slogan of retail establishments is, "Whatever price the market will bear". If your favorite juice is too expensive, find one that's cheap. It may not be the Holy Grail, but you will save money.

Juice vendors are competing just like Burger Joints. If you hate paying for a Double Whopper, go to the Krystal (Chinese juices).

 

[Rossum]

Regulations will probably prevent DIY for most of us.

I expect the opposite, i.e. that regulations will push many of us into DIY. If everyone who mixes juice juice for sale is required to file an application for product approval for every flavor and nic level, there aren't going to be a whole lot of people mixing for sale (or a whole lot pre-mixed flavors) and those that are available are going to be expensive enough make us nostalgic for today's commercial juice prices.

 

[Tangaroav]

I expect the opposite, i.e. that regulations will push many of us into DIY. If everyone who mixes juice juice for sale is required to file an application for product approval for every flavor and nic level, there aren't going to be a whole lot of people mixing for sale (or a whole lot pre-mixed flavors) and those that are available are going to be expensive enough make us nostalgic for today's commercial juice prices.

You are right about prices increasing with regulations.

I think the complications for application for product approval are over rated. Keeping in mind that they are ONLY mixing already approved products, PG, VG and food flavorings. It is the nicotine that those regulations will target and only approved ''mixers'' will be able to get it, thus killing DIY.

... and If THAT does not kill DIY, I would not be surprised to see PG and VG being regulated. The idea here is to control and to profit from vaperizers.

 

[Rossum]

I think the complications for application for product approval are over rated. Keeping in mind that they are ONLY mixing already approved products, PG, VG and food flavorings.

I don't see it that way. If an acceptable application costs what the FDA itself predicts (which is a mid 6-figure sum) there simply aren't going to be very many filed.

It is the nicotine that those regulations will target and only approved ''mixers'' will be able to get it, thus killing DIY.

It will only kill DIY for those who haven't stocked up. Frankly I'm amazed that there hasn't been a mad run on nic base since the FDA regulations were announced earlier this year, but at the same time, I'm pleased because I can continue to add to my personal stockpile at very reasonable prices. A large stockpile of nic base gives me the option of switching to DIY at whatever point I decide it's worthwhile to do so.

and If THAT does not kill DIY, I would not be surprised to see PG and VG being regulated.

I don't see that happening. Both PG and VG are far too ubiquitous and have too many other uses. Remember that as long as they are not INTENDED for use in a regulated product, the FDA has no power to regulate their sale.

 

[klynnn]

Right now people have the benefit of the knowledge in the DIY forum. Take advantage of it. The way .gov is going with their control of everything, including the internet, there may be sites that are just banned in the future. If they can ban nic, along with the products they don't like, they can shut down forums... of course for the children's sake. Prepare now because it's easier to start slow and practice. Whatever comes to pass you will be ahead of the game.

 

[Thunderball]

Right now people have the benefit of the knowledge in the DIY forum. Take advantage of it. The way .gov is going with their control of everything, including the internet, there may be sites that are just banned in the future. If they can ban nic, along with the products they don't like, they can shut down forums... of course for the children's sake. Prepare now because it's easier to start slow and practice. Whatever comes to pass you will be ahead of the game.

A big plus one on this Sir !!

I saw that very thing done with an older established "Roll your own cigs" forum. We were all talking about how to get around the 24 dollar fed tax per pound by buying the pipe tobacco blends that were really covertly made for roll your own cig folks (it was called pipe tobacco but was cut, dried and blended in such a way as to be able to be rolled in tubes)......and I mean it shut down over night after several months of people being open in the forums about it (where to buy it etc)...

After becoming a vaper, thats one of the reasons that I got into DIY in a small way at first, which turned into a fun hobby, and now its like a small chore every three weeks or so. I may stop vaping this year (doubt it), but if I dont, I know enough to keep vaping for years. The nic should last up to 5 years (per Wizard Labs) in the freezer in glass containers. I have enough for about 5 people at my current nic level. I will most likely have either quit or vape with no nic by then. It seems that is what many do after a few years of vaping.

I guess there would alway be learning to distill your own tobacco leaves if needed. I dont know, but if your one of us that started vaping, then got caught up in all the latest and greatest mods and toppers and coil building technics, I think that DIY is the "Final Frontier" of vaping as a hobby. I know its not for everyone. Just my two cents and all.

 

[Tangaroav]

It will only kill DIY for those who haven't stocked up. Frankly I'm amazed that there hasn't been a mad run on nic base since the FDA regulations were announced earlier this year, but at the same time, I'm pleased because I can continue to add to my personal stockpile at very reasonable prices. A large stockpile of nic base gives me the option of switching to DIY at whatever point I decide it's worthwhile to do so.

Time to stock up my nic. Since I use 6mg nic e-juice it should not take too much space in my freezer...

 

[Mazinny]

Once again you say nothing.
"The markup"???
Like there's one set markup liquid makers charge? (Obviously not when you have someone the size of Johnson Creek charging around $20/30ml and smaller companies charging less.)

I'm obviously not talking about liquid makers. It wouldn't do them any good to use liquid to get people into their store to buy more liquid. I'm talking about B&M's who DIY and charge like they were a liquid maker or more.

The only backs of checks I sign are those handed over to me by my customers and it's been that way for over 20 years. Perhaps it's you who should stick to signing the backs of your paycheck. They way you constantly say nothing, hiding behind profit margins and "the markup" says you don't know what you think you do.

I don't think Johnson Creek has as many customers as you may think. The main reason they are as large as they are, is that make the juice for Blu.

 

[Myk]

Come to think of it, it has been like 45 years since I had a bottle of Boones Farm Apple Wine - does anyone make an inexpensive juice that taste the same? I would only pay a price commiserate with the price of the wine though - so maybe $1.00/15ml.

Boones Farm ain't what it used to be. Either I had no taste as a kid or it was actually wine, it's a flavored barley product now. Come to think of it, the apple flavorings I've dealt with could probably make something as bad.

So do you want government pricing?

That's quite the jump from people complaining about prices somewhere hopefully some makers will hear and listen isn't it?

I don't think Johnson Creek has as many customers as you may think. The main reason they are as large as they are, is that make the juice for Blu.

Which translates into their customers, both while they are using Blu and after they've stopped using Blu.
I don't know the exact cost of their new building but I'm pretty sure it's at least $1M and they moved there about 2 years after they started. That also includes preparing their old place for an FDA crackdown the same year they opened.
I don't know if you know how business loans work but that tells me they've been raking it in.
Just because they're not looked at as a good place on ECF (which they were at one time) doesn't mean they don't have customers. Go look at their pictures on FB and tell me they don't have customers.



I know the rates for retail space make it nearly impossible to run a business in a good location. Advertising costs are too high to make it in a bad location.
I really don't know the answer for something with prices like ecigs that isn't as popular as tobacco. But I know pricing something 800-1000 times higher than your customers can make it themselves is not the answer. Before I'd go that route to Profit $18.50 from a customer I'd be trying to sell them something I was making $50 profit on even if I had to give away $1.50 worth of liquid at my cost to do it.
One thing I learned working retail, the word FREE will make up for bad location and bad advertising and even bad prices.
I also learned from a boss who made bad decisions that a good location does you no good if all the money goes to the company who owns the property and if you try to pass that onto your customers they will find somewhere else to shop.