Why so many members take issue with the FDA

[kristin]

The sooner the vaping community can disassociate with cigarettes the better. If that means a ban on vaporizers that look like cigarettes then so be it. Vaporizers aren't cigarettes. They're alternative nicotine delivery devices. IMO, the biggest mistake new vapers make is trying to synthesize real cigarettes by chasing the tobacco dragon. People need to accept vaping for what it is, which makes the transition far more satisfying.

Sorry for the rant. Got OT.

If e-cigarettes had never been associated with cigarettes - as a substitute/alternative FOR cigarettes - then the product would have bombed. E-cigarettes were never meant to be a stand-alone product for just anyone. They were meant to be for SMOKERS and to appeal to SMOKERS. This has not changed. There are over 40 million smokers and only a tiny fraction have switched to e-cigarettes. The fact that they are being marketed to smokers is their saving grace (which is exactly why the ANTZ want people to think they are being marketed not to smokers but to kids to addict them.)

I don't know about anyone else, but if that first e-cigarette I saw in a booth at the state fair had looked like what I'm currently using and not like a cigarette and called a "personal vaporizer" or something else so benign, I never would have purchased it. I would have continued smoking, because I wasn't looking to "quit smoking." What appealed to me was the fact that my state was going smoke-free, cigarettes were expensive and e-cigarettes seemed safer.

 

[B1sh0p]

I'm also of the opinion that more research is necessary. Obviously streamlining nicotine into your system isn't good for you. I'd like to specifically know how vaping affects hypertension and how it compares to smoking. If FDA intervention leads to better research and discovery, that's a good thing. Without any formal experimentation, we're left with anecdotal evidence based on user's experiences. "Dude, I started vaping and my blood pressure lowered. Dude, vaping totally cures hypertension."

 

[DC2]

That's a philosophical fight vapers can't win. We'll always be taxed for our vices. If alcohol and gambling couldn't beat it, good luck.

Smoking, gambling, and alcohol are real world problems with real world consequences.
Vaping is not, no matter how you want to slice it.

Just make sure to note that I am not saying taxing any of those "vices" is right or fair.
I'm sure rock climbing enthusiasts would find such a slippery slope hard to climb.

And I also hope you get my point.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

I just picked up my prescription of Effexor (Venlafaxine) and it came with this wonderful new 2 sided sheet (6 pt. type) of warnings that was revised in Dec 2012. December 2012. Mighty white of someone to notify me of these additional DANGERS almost a year AFTER the FACT. The pharmacists said they just received these from the FDA.
Wait....most of these "dangers" are exactly what I'm taking Effexor to prevent........? And didn't the FDA originally approve this medication in 1993 based on the BP's "thorough testing" of this product?

At the very end of this 2 sided, "get out your magnifying glass", head ache causing, fear wrenching "list", right above the "Revised December 2012" is:
"This Medication Guide has been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for all antidepressants."

Seriously............why would ANYONE TRUST the FDA?

Hi NiNi! I never read those things because they always tell you you are going to die from whatever you are taking, usually about 3 pages in. If I have a side affect then I look it up. Just a guess that they put those things in because someone has complained or sued about it. I had an irregular heartbeat from a common hay fever medication. It happens. I didn't sue them though my doctor's office may have reported it and I suppose if there are enough reports that people have that “sensitivity” in goes onto the list. There was some medication I'd been taking for years that suddenly started coming with information and warning sheets. Initially scared the pee out of me. If Americans started taking more responsibility for their own actions... Last year a group of people climbed over a fence at Yosemite National Park that had a warning sign on it right above a waterfall. People were yelling at them not to. They then got in the water and were swept over the falls. Their survivors are suing. We pick up the tab on it. Their families don’t want to hear that their dearly departed were flaming idiots, they want the government to take responsibility (in the form of a lot of money) for what the flaming idiots did.

I do understand your distrust with the FDA especially since I have many of the same frustrations. Okay, I admit it, I get pretty angry with them sometimes but then wonder what might be in those medications if the FDA didn’t exist. I really don’t trust BP. I prefer to keep the FDA and watch them like a hawk, kinda like Iffy’s Snoopy watching the mail truck.

 

[kristin]

I'm also of the opinion that more research is necessary. Obviously streamlining nicotine into your system isn't good for you. I'd like to specifically know how vaping affects hypertension and how it compares to smoking. If FDA intervention leads to better research and discovery, that's a good thing. Without any formal experimentation, we're left with anecdotal evidence based on user's experiences. "Dude, I started vaping and my blood pressure lowered. Dude, vaping totally cures hypertension."

The FDA recently approved nicotine for long-term use in gums, patches, etc. as being "safe." No mention of increases risk of hypertension and stating it was far safer than continuing to smoke.

If you trust the FDA's assessment of those nicotine products, then the nicotine used in e-cigarettes (which is the same as in those NRTs) would logically be just as "safe."

 

[wv2win]

Actually, yes, the FDA can do whatever they please with batteries, switches, tubes... They are the components of what make up an ecig.
The FDA regulates the rolling paper that the cigarette is rolled in, and the rolling paper company has to disclose all ingredients, even though the paper is not a component until it is bought by the cigarette manufacturers.
Cigarett3 components are filters, paper, tobacco,
Ecig components are battery tubes, batteries, led light, switch, tank, atomizer, nicotine liquid, and possibly zero nic liquid.

They can, but they won't go after the battery tube part of vaping. There is no way they could control me from turning a flashlight into a PV as thousand have done over the last 4 years. E-liquid is the weak link, which was the point of my comment.

 

[B1sh0p]

Smoking, gambling, and alcohol are real world problems with real world consequences.
Vaping is not, no matter how you want to slice it.

Just make sure to note that I am not saying taxing any of those "vices" is right or fair.
I'm sure rock climbing enthusiasts would find such a slippery slope hard to climb.

And I also hope you get my point.

That's naive bull..... Vaping is an addiction and not 100% safe. To say otherwise is completely disingenuous.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Bummers. It's a good watch. Maybe you can borrow the library's internet next time you're by that way? Parking lots even pick them up from what the homeless van guys say...

The homeless guy is correct If you park close.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

That's naive bull..... Vaping is an addiction and not 100% safe. To say otherwise is completely disingenuous.

And all those folks who vape 0 nic?

 

[B1sh0p]

The FDA recently approved nicotine for long-term use in gums, patches, etc. as being "safe." No mention of increases risk of hypertension and stating it was far safer than continuing to smoke.

If you trust the FDA's assessment of those nicotine products, then the nicotine used in e-cigarettes (which is the same as in those NRTs) would logically be just as "safe."

Sorry, but vaping isn't chewing gum.

 

[B1sh0p]

And all those folks who vape 0 nic?

Are in the vast minority and they're honestly irrelevant as they won't be affected by regulation.

 

[EddardinWinter]

What on earth has happened?

I go on to dinner and check the thread....and....wow! Looks like a bunch of shenanigans went on. I am on a date, so...behave yourselves, I will see you tomorrow.

Jman: you can count on hearing from me tomorrow, since you insist on pursuing this.



Tapped out

 

[DC2]

Last year a group of people climbed over a fence at Yosemite National Park that had a warning sign on it right above a waterfall. People were yelling at them not to. They then got in the water and were swept over the falls. Their survivors are suing. We pick up the tab on it. Their families don’t want to hear that their dearly departed were flaming idiots, they want the government to take responsibility (in the form of a lot of money) for what the flaming idiots did.

And this is exactly why the world is falling apart.

 

[DC2]

Obviously streamlining nicotine into your system isn't good for you.

What does that even mean?

 

[NiNi]

I read this link and it had me shaking my head. I knew about the side effects of Chantix and it's amazing to me that it is still on the market, but this extra bit got me:

"The article also notes that the FDA is requiring the makers of Chantix to conduct clinical studies to determine the incidence and severity of the adverse effects of Chantix: "To better understand the incidence of these adverse events and which patients may be at greatest risk, the FDA is requiring the manufacturers of both drugs to conduct additional randomized controlled trials. Unlike previous studies, these trials will include individuals with preexisting mental health conditions, who make up a disproportionate number of smokers."

The emphasis is mine, but it goes to their perception of smokers. I wouldn't be surprised if they had the same bias towards e-cigs. It's going to take many, loud voices to overcome their deaf ears.

disproportionate: having or showing a difference that is not fair, reasonable, or expected : too large or too small in relation to something: being out of proportion <a disproportionate share>

While acute/initial nicotine intake causes activation of nicotine receptors, chronic low doses of nicotine use leads to desensitisation of nicotine receptors (due to the development of tolerance) and results in an antidepressant effect, with research showing low dose nicotine patches being an effective treatment of major depressive disorder in non-smokers.

Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and another WHY IS BP STUCK ON STOOPID?!?!?!?!?! Low doses of Nic HELP people with MDD. Take away the Nic and what do you have? I see dead people. D U H

 

[B1sh0p]

And this is exactly whey the world is falling apart.

Again, philosophical and political arguments that aren't based in reality and have no place in a discussion that should be apolitical. The vaping community should be politically neutral to be effective. I don't want to know how you feel about guns, gay rights or suffrage either.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Are in the vast minority and they're honestly irrelevant as they won't be affected by regulation.

I don't think their health is irrelevant.

I go on to dinner and check the thread....and....wow! Looks like a bunch of shenanigans went on. I am on a date, so...behave yourselves, I will see you tomorrow.

Hmmm, gets lucky and we’re all okay. Doesn’t get lucky and we’re all in the doghouse.

 

[EvilZoe]

...behave yourselves...

Yeah, right....lol

What does that even mean?

Maybe he's injecting it while the rest of us are doing it correctly.

 

[B1sh0p]

I don't think their health is irrelevant.




Hmmm, gets lucky and we’re all okay. Doesn’t get lucky and we’re all in the doghouse.

I never said their health was irrelevant, but they're irrelevant to the discussion. APVs, toppers and the ingredients to make 0 mg juice will never be banned or regulated.

 

[wv2win]

..........................

No, bringing up Black Market as way to address impending changes to the eCig market is not off topic. It is not the best way, I agree, but it is a reasonable response to whatever is deemed 'worst case scenario that FDA may institute with regards to eCigs, specifically eJuice.'............................

I honestly feel the science is still in question........................

If you feel the science is still in question, then you need to provide your "bonafides" as to your medical degree(s). Personally, I trust well established health professionals with years of experience in this field, such as Dr Michael Siegel of Boston University and Dr Gilbert Ross of The American Counsel on Science and Health. Something tells me they are much more qualified than some random person on ECF who thinks he's more qualified than true professionals.

And since you believe that a Black Market is a "reasonable response", you are advocating that breaking the law is reasonable and good. That type of "thinking" is not one that will shed a positive light on the vaping community.