Why so many members take issue with the FDA

[DC2]

That would mean booting out the whole government and starting from scratch.

That's about where things stand now.

Has anyone ever thought about going into politics for the right reasons?
Has anyone ever considered how far one can get in politics when you don't play the game?

I have given it a lot of thought, and I realized that the game is rigged and the deck is stacked.
But what's more, I've come to realize that this is the situation with every government in the history of the world.

And to make sure I bring this back to topic...

Those politicians that are currently in power are the ones that appoint those that will run the FDA.
In such a situation, it is impossible for the FDA to NOT be political organization at it's very core.

 

[RobinBanks]

That would mean booting out the whole government and starting from scratch.

I'm down.

 

[Robino1]

That's about where things stand now.

Has anyone ever thought about going into politics for the right reasons?
Has anyone ever considered how far one can get in politics when you don't play the game?

I have given it a lot of thought, and I realized that the game is rigged and the deck is stacked.
But what's more, I've come to realize that this is the situation with every government in the history of the world.

And to make sure I bring this back to topic...

Those politicians that are currently in power are the ones that appoint those that will run the FDA.
In such a situation, it is impossible for the FDA to NOT be political organization at it's very core.

What kills me is there are those that go into politics with such good and noble intentions. It doesn't take long for them to learn that the nice guy finishes last. Power is such a powerful (haha) aphrodisiac.

 

[DC2]

What kills me is there are those that go into politics with such good and noble intentions.

That's what I was thinking of doing, until I realized how pointless it was.

But maybe when I retire I'll give it a go anyway, for ....s and giggles.
Can't hurt anyway.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

What kills me is there are those that go into politics with such good and noble intentions. It doesn't take long for them to learn that the nice guy finishes last. Power is such a powerful (haha) aphrodisiac.

I was JUST thinking this but you stated it more beautifully than I ever could have. Many people do go into politics for the right reasons - initially. They really want to change things. Then they see that you need the big money and the big exposure to get into any real position of power, they learn about red tape and "lying for the greater good" and fudging your own beliefs in order to garner "a larger audience" and other twisted methods that tend to be required in order to get good exposure and backing, they make one too many deals with the devil, so to speak and then they just come out the other side of it jaded. After that they just can't trust anybody, not even the people they initially intended to help. It's really sad.

My stepfather went through this to an extent, he ran for Congress. Learned some ugly truths about what it would take to get there, backed out.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

That's what I was thinking of doing, until I realized how pointless it was.

But maybe when I retire I'll give it a go anyway, for ....s and giggles.
Can't hurt anyway.

I'd vote for ya! Are there free cookies?

 

[Anjaffm]

I'd vote for ya! Are there free cookies?

forget free cookies! *looks all stern and disapproving*
Cookie-flavored liquid now, on the other hand.....

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

forget free cookies! *looks all stern and disapproving*
Cookie-flavored liquid now, on the other hand.....

Damn, you have my vote, where do I sign? I'll even volunteer for ya. Let it never be said the people can't be bought... (fist pump)

 

[Orb Skewer]

"put 5 monkeys in a cage, hang a banana from the roof with a staircase leading up to it, pretty soon one of the monkeys will attempt to climb the stairs to reach the banana, spray the other 4 with cold water"........etc etc.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Okay guys, I hate to be a topic cop, but, we cannot fix politics today. Frankly, I am not sure we can ever do so. I don't want to get too deep into politics here if it can be avoided...

I do understand that frustration with the political process leads to contempt/frustration with the FDA. Is this part of the issue we have? Is a general distrust of our politicians bleeding into our view of the FDA?

I honestly don't know how this works. Does the administration in power (President) appoint the head of the FDA at will? ICBR should know...

 

[DC2]

I honestly don't know how this works. Does the administration in power (President) appoint the head of the FDA at will? ICBR should know...

Commissioner of Food and Drugs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[B1sh0p]

Nice thread Lion.

Glad someone is taking on the FDA. I trust no gov't agency. FDA included...for all the reasons you point out.

These are the type of posts I choose to not be associated with. They make us all look bad.


Have a good fight friends, common sense tells me they can't ban a metal battery tube with a switch.

 

[Robino1]

Okay guys, I hate to be a topic cop, but, we cannot fix politics today. Frankly, I am not sure we can ever do so. I don't want to get too deep into politics here if it can be avoided...

I do understand that frustration with the political process leads to contempt/frustration with the FDA. Is this part of the issue we have? Is a general distrust of our politicians bleeding into our view of the FDA?

I honestly don't know how this works. Does the administration in power (President) appoint the head of the FDA at will? ICBR should know...

I been bad
Are ya gonna punish me

Back to serious: FDA is political. It's based in Washington, it can't help but be political. I wish there was an easy answer for you, my dear Lion.

 

[Anjaffm]

Sorry, Eddard, this was just too good to pass up

I think the distrust of the FDA has to do with
1. their attempted "handling" of e-cigs in 2009, which was- thank goodness - thwarted by the court
2. their reputation as such. Chantix is just one of the "FDA-approved" "medicines" that has caused a lot of harm to people. So much for trusting FDA approval as a sign that something is harmless and can be good for you.
3. their .. uhm.. treatment of e-cigs to this day (see their current website). (nothing changes since 2009...noooooo... no studies... nooooo.. etc etc )
4. (in Europe) European vapers getting sick and tired of silly FUD articles throwing some FDA "findings" from 2009 in our faces.. nitrosamines... alleged toxins.. blather blather...

5. FDA is a government agency. Most people do not trust the (any) government, as they have been lied to just one time too many. Why then should they put their trust in government agencies?

6. FDA is doing nothing whatsoever to even imply that they have changed their stance with regard to e-cigs (see point 3)

my 2 cents

 

[Uma]

Speaking of the FDA & Chantix... Don't ever, not ever, use generic type pills that are new to the game, or that are associated with issues like the chantix is. The brand name is too expensive for most people, but at least the expense covers the right to sue them if they kill your loved one. The Generic version doesn't have protection fees added on. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/supreme-court-generic-drug_n_3490553.html

 

[EddardinWinter]

These are the type of posts I choose to not be associated with. They make us all look bad.


Have a good fight friends, common sense tells me they can't ban a metal battery tube with a switch.

I don't know how Bronze's post could make anyone, other than Bronze, look "bad".

I don't think that one makes him look like anything, except perhaps a bit cynical.

 

[AgentAnia]

Jobs in any govt. agency are one of two types: "career" postings, and political appointments. The top positions are policitcal appointments. On a basic level, an agency is governed by the legislation that created it; add to that any further amendments made to the enabling legislation over the years. That's the foundation.

Most high-level, policy-setting positions are political appointments. (Back in the day -- don't know if it still applies -- there was such a thing as the "plum book," that listed all political-appointment positions. When an administration changed, the plum book became the jobs bible for supporters of the new administration. The term "revolving door" comes into play here: people appointed by the previous administration leave to take jobs with the companies/industries they regulated, and it's not uncommon for people from these industries are appointed to replace them. (This doesn't happen *all* the time, but it's common.) These people are the ones who establish current policy, which career staffers are bound to carry out.

I see this happening at the FDA. But remember that the Tobacco Control Board is relatively new; the main reason I have issues with them is that it's staffed and advised primarily by, surprise surprise, tobacco control advocates. It's ruled by ideology from the ground up.

 

[TreVader]

I read the post you quoted from the FDA, and I don't get you're point.... the FDA is not trying to hurt you. They didn't even say that they will ban or do really anything with e-cigarrettes.

You took issue with their testing of several e-juice brands... but all they said was that there is a LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL. That is true... IMO E-juice manufacturers SHOULD have to submit their products for testing. Frankly, you have ZERO IDEA what these guys put in the juice. ZERO. Then you complain about their use of the word "puff"... they are describing a uniform amount of vapor coming out of the e-cig... would you be OK with it if they used the word "drag" or "pull"?

The FDA, the government, politicians are in no way worse than what you would find in big business at the highest tiers... in fact they are substantially better because unlike CEOs and COOs of big companies, the whole country gets to look at their paycheck, and what they spent it on.

You guys whining about the FDA... I can't wait till they do start testing this stuff and they find all sorts of insane chemicals you never could've imagined... you'll be BEGGING them to regulate E-Juice.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Okay guys, I hate to be a topic cop, but, we cannot fix politics today. Frankly, I am not sure we can ever do so. I don't want to get too deep into politics here if it can be avoided...

I do understand that frustration with the political process leads to contempt/frustration with the FDA. Is this part of the issue we have? Is a general distrust of our politicians bleeding into our view of the FDA?

I honestly don't know how this works. Does the administration in power (President) appoint the head of the FDA at will? ICBR should know...

Yes. The Comissioner is a political appointee and must be approved with the advice and consent of the US Senate. Pretty much any high level position--from the Cabinet Secretary down to assistant secretaries and heads of commissions or agencies established by Congress through an act of law--are political appointees.

Typically, the appointees are individuals who (1) have a stake in the industry or issues being addressed by the particular agency or commission or have some background in it and (2) have helped the administration in some way, be it through campaign contributions, policy advocacy or support for those who support the administration. In some cases (see the appointment of Hilary Clinton as SecState), an appointment is made to keep enemies close.

They serve at the pleasure of the President. President Bush fired the Asst. Secretary of the Army for Civil Works for testifying before Congress that the President's budget was insufficient to meet his agency's needs. I add that only to illustrate that political appointees will always and everywhere carry out the will of the administration. One step out of line, and you're gone like yesterday.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

I read the post you quoted from the FDA, and I don't get you're point.... the FDA is not trying to hurt you. They didn't even say that they will ban or do really anything with e-cigarrettes.

You took issue with their testing of several e-juice brands... but all they said was that there is a LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL. That is true... IMO E-juice manufacturers SHOULD have to submit their products for testing. Frankly, you have ZERO IDEA what these guys put in the juice. ZERO. Then you complain about their use of the word "puff"... they are describing a uniform amount of vapor coming out of the e-cig... would you be OK with it if they used the word "drag" or "pull"?

The FDA, the government, politicians are in no way worse than what you would find in big business at the highest tiers... in fact they are substantially better because unlike CEOs and COOs of big companies, the whole country gets to look at their paycheck, and what they spent it on.

You guys whining about the FDA... I can't wait till they do start testing this stuff and they find all sorts of insane chemicals you never could've imagined... you'll be BEGGING them to regulate E-Juice.​

Well, that's one of the problems, the FDA has no testing underway or any plans to test e liquids and has basically thrown out any/all outside tests that don't concur with their completely blinded by the money stance.