Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[zoiDman]

--- *** ---

Now that Sounds Very Cool. Are you using Ultrasound perhaps?

I would consider Talking with an Intellectual Properties Lawyer before you say Too Much.

I have seen a Few Very Bright Ideas pop up on the ECF. Only to be Marketed bv the Big OEM's. And the person got Nothing for their Efforts.

Not Even a Box of Clearos and a Thank You.

 

[zoiDman]

In fact... I would Delete what you wrote in Post #779.

That is, unless you are Not Looking to make any Money off Your Invention.

 

[Cumulonimbus Bliss]

In fact... I would Delete what you wrote in Post #779.

That is, unless you are Not Looking to make any Money off Your Invention.

Thank you. I appreciate someone finally understanding what I'm getting at. Actually I'm not looking to capitalize on my peers. I work in the entertainment industry and I love it so I'm in no hurry to change. If/when I do put this in to production it will be sold for a few bucks so that everyone could have one. I'm serious about fighting for the good of the people and changing the world for the better.

 

[DC2]

Maybe there's something I'm missing because I've been telling fellow vapers about the solution for a while and the majority of people either don't care about others or believe that blowing vapor down there shirt is an effective method.(You're not fooling anyone by the way.) Please help me out with this because I'm starting to lose faith in humanity.

This is the point at which you must remember that we are not all the same...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/77298-updated-when-vaping-most-important-you.html

If there is no vaper, I'm not going to be vaping.

 

[zoiDman]

Thank you. ...

I would Definitely speak with a Patent/Intellectual Properties Attorney though. As soon as Possible.

 

[Cumulonimbus Bliss]

This is the point at which you must remember that we are not all the same...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/77298-updated-when-vaping-most-important-you.html

If there is no vaper, I'm not going to be vaping.

Totally understandable and I agree. Question is: are you willing to sacrifice a minor part of the experience in order to have the experience at all? It's starting to sound more and more like we are losing this battle for now. We will win eventually because we have the facts and the truth on our side. Unfortunately the dollar holds a lot more water these days.

Once again I'd like to mention that I am an avid vaper and I love every aspect of it. I use this device daily and I can tell you without any bias or ego that it feels great to vape in a movie theater, on a jet, at work and not have to deal with the repercussions. I vape like i normally would, the only differance is i put one device to my lips to inhale and another, smaller device to exhale. It's that simple.

I urge everyone not to look at this invention like someone trying to make a dollar off of you or to control what you do with your body. It's a simple solution to a big problem. I know it's hard to believe, but I ask everyone to honestly recall the first thought that popped in to your head when someone mentioned the concept of electronic cigarettes. A safe and affective alternative to tobacco that's more enjoyable? I'll bet it was something along the lines "BS, that's too good to be true". It's 2014 people. Technology is your friend.

 

[Jman8]

So my question to everyone is this: Why are we clinging to this fog so hard?
It's job is done. It's no longer providing flavor or nicotine. Just lingering in the sky, pissing off those around you and extending the time that we have to be on the defensive and giving ammo to those who would rather we just smoke cigarettes and die like good sheep.

Maybe there's something I'm missing because I've been telling fellow vapers about the solution for a while and the majority of people either don't care about others or believe that blowing vapor down there shirt is an effective method.(You're not fooling anyone by the way.) Please help me out with this because I'm starting to lose faith in humanity.

My devices don't produce a fog. I do cigalikes and have ever since I started 2 years ago. I would claim I'm in the majority of vapers, but likely a minority here on ECF. At any rate, if I really really try to take a huge puff, or even puff, puff, inhale, I'm telling you that my stuff doesn't linger, nor produce what you are calling fog. On average, it is gone from sight in 3 seconds or less. If I really look hard for it, I can see some traces of it for up to 10 seconds. But there's simply no way it could obstruct another person's view of anything that they were trying to see in my presence. Even if I stood in some position and did all I could to try and and make that happen.

With all that said, it is the lack of harm / relative harmlessness, and lack of fog, lack of lingering, and very faint smell that tells me I can do this indoors and it stands as much of a chance of bothering (sane) people as a normal person breathing. I put sane in parentheses cause other people could plausibly be bothered by the sight of vapor and claim undue harm / irritation in much the same way a germaphobe may be highly irritated by my daring to exhale air in their presence, without donning a mouth filter.

 

[Jman8]

I use this device daily and I can tell you without any bias or ego that it feels great to vape in a movie theater, on a jet, at work and not have to deal with the repercussions. I vape like i normally would, the only differance is i put one device to my lips to inhale and another, smaller device to exhale. It's that simple.

I urge everyone not to look at this invention like someone trying to make a dollar off of you or to control what you do with your body. It's a simple solution to a big problem. I know it's hard to believe, but I ask everyone to honestly recall the first thought that popped in to your head when someone mentioned the concept of electronic cigarettes. A safe and affective alternative to tobacco that's more enjoyable? I'll bet it was something along the lines "BS, that's too good to be true". It's 2014 people. Technology is your friend.

Sorry, but I somewhat misread your earlier post. Not entirely as I stand by what I wrote.

I'd use this sort of device, but really as a way to vape as much as I please wherever I please. As you said, in a movie theater would be prime spot for that sort of set up. I'd liked to think there would be no issue with normal vaping per my earlier post, but realize that there are vapers amongst us who might tattle on me for daring to sit in the back row of a theater that currently has 11 people in it, and I'm vaping. I mean, didn't I see the 4 year old sitting 11 rows ahead of me? How dare I vape in their presence. Off with my head! Or at very least, no movie for me / busted / kicked out. With this sort of device, I can't see it being full proof from the tattle tellers, but from the non-vapers amongst us, I think it would overcome all possible obstacles.

 

[Berylanna]

So you don't believe removing vapor while in public situations would benefit our image and effectively put us in the same category as someone drinking a glass water?

Though it would help a lot, you'd need a time machine if you want to never have people hear bad things about vaping in the first place, and it doesn't solve the problem of obsoleting all those Tobacco Control jobs and the $billions that BP makes on lung cancer and COPD treatments. It also cuts OUT again some of the familiarity of the habit -- the same thing that makes ecigs work is what we're getting busted for: going through similar motions.

But I agree with others on here, do something about the IP first. It's not a matter of soaking fellow vapers, it's a matter of having something in your hand that you can sell to someone who can legally put it into production and get enough back to pay them back for their trouble.

 

[Myk]

So my question to everyone is this: Why are we clinging to this fog so hard?
It's job is done. It's no longer providing flavor or nicotine. Just lingering in the sky, pissing off those around you and extending the time that we have to be on the defensive and giving ammo to those who would rather we just smoke cigarettes and die like good sheep.

The fog is what makes ecigs work. If the inhaler had fog it would work.
I did 0mg and had the fog bring a rush of calm over me. I've been conditioned for 35 years to see that fog and expect the feeling.

The fog is everything. Here, pretend you're smoking, pretend you're getting nicotine, it's all good, just pretend. If that pisses anyone off it is their problem not mine. They don't like me smoking for real so they have a choice to make. I pretend or I really do it.

I don't know what your idea does or how it does it but I can tell you if it's taking in nicotine in a "unregulated, unapproved" way the ANTZ will still be against it. You either pay them or you die. They are that insane.
So it still comes down to stealth unless it's a patch or gum. Remember these are the same people who ban snus use.

 

[Bramble]

The fog is what makes ecigs work. If the inhaler had fog it would work.
I did 0mg and had the fog bring a rush of calm over me. I've been conditioned for 35 years to see that fog and expect the feeling.

The fog is everything. Here, pretend you're smoking, pretend you're getting nicotine, it's all good, just pretend. If that pisses anyone off it is their problem not mine. They don't like me smoking for real so they have a choice to make. I pretend or I really do it.

I don't know what your idea does or how it does it but I can tell you if it's taking in nicotine in a "unregulated, unapproved" way the ANTZ will still be against it. You either pay them or you die. They are that insane.
So it still comes down to stealth unless it's a patch or gum. Remember these are the same people who ban snus use.

Yes. I require vapor. As I am extremely considerate where I do it, and it offends no one in my life to be around it, then all is well.

I think the vapor is a huge part of what makes it effective as opposed to NRT because it doesn't just replace the nicotine, it replaces every aspect. I don't want to see a "gelded" version of the eCig that doesn't work as well.

If the goal is to make vapers out of smokers and if the vaper has a goal of then becoming a non-vaper, the device needs to be as effective as possible.

If the goal is to avoid offending people by not doing anything that they don't like the look of, then I say good luck with that. Some people take particular joy in being offended by nothing, they just sit around all day drinking Hater-ade snacking on hatecakes. You will never make some people happy... at least not as happy as you are when you stop smoking.

** Hatecake is the name of my next band.

 

[sdennislee]

I really don't have an "axe to grind" with anyone. And it wasn't my intention to call anyone out, and as a result, I've deleted the names in the post. Personal attacks help no one.

My point is that the argument that you should only vape where you can smoke, or you shouldn't vape where you can't smoke is too simplistic.

We all know it's not that easy. We also know that public vapers are not the cause of all this anti e-cig legislation.

Unfortunately everyday we lose a bit of ground. I was actually kind of excited last October, but a lot has changed. Towns are instituting blanket bans on e-cigs where smoking is not allowed. They aren't even taking a common sense approach to the matter. And there is no reason to believe that a town like San Rafael would create the toughest anti-smoking legislation in the United States and then suddenly be progressive in terms of e-cig usage.

It's not going down like that. I hate to say it, but we will be lucky if we can even order our vaping supplies online by the end of the year. I personally don't want to have to hike to my local "head shop and vapor store" and be so limited in my selection. All of the best things I found in vaping, I got online. My local stores barely know what a protank is, and only one I've been to recognized my MVP... Most of them are selling CE4's and ego starter kits with generic juice from China.

Instead of burying our heads in the sand and hoping the bad people will go away, we really need to start challenging some of these bans in the court system. They are hurting business owners, they are hurting ex smokers, and all because of a concentrated movement to eliminate vaping entirely.

Every successful municipal ban that goes unchallenged leads to dozens of more city councils putting it up on their docket. We won't have the freedom to go to a vape convention like I will be going to in Tampa this weekend because no business owner will be allowed to host one.

And it really doesn't matter what the average joe thinks. I used to think pure "education" was the answer. Most people I know don't have a problem with my vaping. But none of them care enough to overturn an existing ban because..."It doesn't apply to me...."

When smoking was banned in the 80's on airplane trips less than 2 hours. Most smokers saw the logic of that argument. We understood that a confined space with limited ventilation was not the "best place" to smoke. By 1998 that ban was extended to all domestic flights regardless of length. Shortly thereafter it was banned on all flights international or domestic.

Never in my wildest dreams, did I think that acquiescing to something as trival as smoking on a plane would lead to a law that would make it illegal to smoke in my own home if it shared a wall with a neighbor.

We've all been down this road before. We know where it leads. The constitutionality of these vaping bans has to be challenged and challenged immediately.

We can't count on non-vapers to do it.....

Perfect example of, You can't throw a frog in boiling water, but you can put him in cold water then bring it to a boil. So if you take our rights away slowly the sheep will never notice until it's too late. So sad that we allow ourselves to be boiled slowly

 

[sdennislee]

The problem is that some folks cross the line when they think that their opinion should be the blueprint on how others should think and live.

If you don't think you should vape where you can't smoke, I'm fine with that, that's your opinion and you are more than welcome to live by your principles.

However, If I am minding my business and you try to apply your standards of decorum to me, or worse, you try to blame my behavior for the reason that vaping is being banned, then you and I will have a passionate discussion.

I know for a fact why vaping is under attack, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the lady in the doctors waiting room who vaped in front of the children.

I and others have spent several posts outlining exactly how and when e-cigarettes came under attack, and why now, at the height of their popularity (and effectiveness) they are being vilified rather than praised for the life saving devices you and I know them to be.

Zoid....If you have it, Give me link to the representatives who are looking to ban internet sales of e-cigs in Cali. Most of my vape supplies are shipped from there. I definitely have skin in that game, and let me know what else you think we need to do. I need to let the California reps that they are affecting many the livelihood of many local California businesses that pay California taxes.

Best post yet.

 

[desrever]

I treat vaping like vaping.
Who said anything about blowing clouds of vapor in people's faces? My common courtesy is not to blow air or vapor in people's faces. But when it comes to breathing I'm going to do it whether or not people can see it.

As a doctor would you tell me to avoid taking medicine because others might not like the looks of it? They don't know what I'm taking and if it's a danger to them or not.
Thing is whether it's nicotine or a handful of pills it is my medicine.

No I wouldn't, but vaping and medicine are not the same. One is not a necessity. There is a good chance vapor will pass by someone's face if you are vaping in a room next to other people. The look of it will always be controversial, but I suspect the smell can be more bothersome like I mentioned. In fact, just the other week I was out for dinner and someone nearby was vaping next to us. Although their juice was far from irritating, I didn't quite enjoy constantly taking whiffs of strawberry with my steak and wine. If we were indoors instead of the patio I probably would have said something. I'm not for banning it anywhere at all. I'd just prefer if other vapers showed a bit more courtesy in the public.

 

[Myk]

No I wouldn't, but vaping and medicine are not the same. One is not a necessity. There is a good chance vapor will pass by someone's face if you are vaping in a room next to other people. The look of it will always be controversial, but I suspect the smell can be more bothersome like I mentioned. In fact, just the other week I was out for dinner and someone nearby was vaping next to us. Although their juice was far from irritating, I didn't quite enjoy constantly taking whiffs of strawberry with my steak and wine. If we were indoors instead of the patio I probably would have said something. I'm not for banning it anywhere at all. I'd just prefer if other vapers showed a bit more courtesy in the public.

Howdy Doc, nice to meet you.
I have Ulcerative Colitis held in check for the 35 years that I smoked and diagnosed after I quit. I bled while waiting for diagnosis at 0mg. My first diagnosis was Crohn's so I stayed off nicotine and bled while taking mesalamine. It wasn't until dx'ed with UC when I increased my nicotine (I quit at 11mg and had to work my way up to 18mg) along with the mesalamine that I stopped bleeding.
Ulcerative colitis in smokers, non-smokers and ex-smokers
(edit) Oops, gave you the wrong link, that one is interesting and includes this one but it's long, this is the one with the study I meant to give, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2014383/ (/edit)
Vaping IS part of my medicine and while I can go without nicotine as far as addiction goes eventually it does cross into going without medicine and I have to pay for it. I suspect the last flare was because I wasn't vaping enough, about 2 months of minor pain, 2 months of great pain and now 3 months of really fun methods of taking mesalamine.

Is an imaginary threat of second hand vapor or a real annoyance of the smell more important than my real health issue?
Should I be forced to pay $40/wk for patches when I can pay $1/wk to vape because some health orgs have brainwashed people against anything that even looks like smoking?
I already don't go places because of the disease. Do I have to limit that even further because people don't approve of my treatment?

I agree it's the look, but it's also propaganda. I could use a nicotine inhaler, hold it just like a cigarette, pretend I'm blowing smoke and nobody would have a problem. I could use an asthma inhaler and blow out wisps of vapor and nobody would have a problem. But blow out vapor getting nicotine in something called an ecig and suddenly people have an issue.

About your strawberry steak and wine. Would you have enjoyed the scent if the table next to you was having strawberry cake?

 

[jpargana]

No. The problem is t from a distance, one can easily think another is smoking in a non smoking area. It just would cause too many problems to allow vaping in non smoking areas.

Well, thing is now, "non smoking areas" may be something like parking lots, parks, beaches... out in the open.


EVEN if 'another' was actually smoking, from a distance, where is the real harm to the offended?? His health is not in danger. Trouble is, too many insane regulations have given insane people the 'right' to vilify smokers, based on ideology alone, as if smokers were under-human. And now, vapers are beginning to be legally (since some of those restrictions have been extended to vaping, with NO real proof of harm) treated as smokers, by those same insane people! Will it ever end? How much lower do we have to put ourselves, to conform to the idealism of the easily offended??

 

[Jay-dub]

@DC2
I realize I do have some hate. I used to be able to buy jeans and the waist was the same no matter what brand or cut. A 32 fit like a 32. Now, inches appear to be different from style to style and brand to brand. I've gotten several pairs of jeans lately that I think may be "girlfriend jeans". The cut sucks and the zipper on the fly is too short to whip it out through. I hate fashion, I hate girlfriend jeans, and I'd love five minutes in a locked room with who ever came up with the notion. Yay - I do hate! I'll blame skinny jeans and girlfirend jeans on this Glantz guy. Now, we can both hate the dolt!

 

[zoiDman]

...

And I'll take the "vape everywhere" approach, in this day and time (as in right now) over the rolling over and playing dead for the banners that are amongst us. I've already spoken to vape openly with respect about 3 to 5 times in this thread. I've already clarified the vape everywhere position at least twice in this thread.

...

It's Funny how you talk about "Respect" and Abiding by a Business Owners ability to Dis-Allow Vaping in This Thread. But you Post things like this in All the Other Threads.

Good luck enforcing it.

Vape a ton in the bathroom

Er, I mean

Make a run for the border

I would concede that a property owner has right to ban, but I feel everyone/anyone has right to question why and learn reasoning for the ban.

To me, if that reasoning is based on arrogance (because I said so) or ignorance (cause it looks like smoking, and therefore is smoking), then I feel all the more tempted to vape in that establishment. And get away with it, without anyone knowing. With vaping, I find this to be incredibly easy to do.

A little civil disobedience now and then
is cherished by the wisest men.

Though I do wish the vaping revolution was televised, or hyped up as much as the domino effect of yet another place that has banned vaping, but provided no indication as to why.

Kinda brings into Question your Sincerity.

 

[desrever]

Howdy Doc, nice to meet you.
I have Ulcerative Colitis held in check for the 35 years that I smoked and diagnosed after I quit. I bled while waiting for diagnosis at 0mg. My first diagnosis was Crohn's so I stayed off nicotine and bled while taking mesalamine. It wasn't until dx'ed with UC when I increased my nicotine (I quit at 11mg and had to work my way up to 18mg) along with the mesalamine that I stopped bleeding.
Ulcerative colitis in smokers, non-smokers and ex-smokers
(edit) Oops, gave you the wrong link, that one is interesting and includes this one but it's long, this is the one with the study I meant to give, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2014383/ (/edit)
Vaping IS part of my medicine and while I can go without nicotine as far as addiction goes eventually it does cross into going without medicine and I have to pay for it. I suspect the last flare was because I wasn't vaping enough, about 2 months of minor pain, 2 months of great pain and now 3 months of really fun methods of taking mesalamine.

Is an imaginary threat of second hand vapor or a real annoyance of the smell more important than my real health issue?
Should I be forced to pay $40/wk for patches when I can pay $1/wk to vape because some health orgs have brainwashed people against anything that even looks like smoking?
I already don't go places because of the disease. Do I have to limit that even further because people don't approve of my treatment?

I agree it's the look, but it's also propaganda. I could use a nicotine inhaler, hold it just like a cigarette, pretend I'm blowing smoke and nobody would have a problem. I could use an asthma inhaler and blow out wisps of vapor and nobody would have a problem. But blow out vapor getting nicotine in something called an ecig and suddenly people have an issue.

About your strawberry steak and wine. Would you have enjoyed the scent if the table next to you was having strawberry cake?

I stand corrected. But you are not the average vaper. If someone like you explained the situation it would be entirely different (in my perspective at least). The general public is not so forgiving unfortunately. Vaping has a ways to go, especially when you still have people upset about something as harmless & necessary as breast feeding...

As for the strawberry, I've never smelled anything (natural) as strong. You know how some liquids can be, perfume like.

 

[Jay-dub]

Full circle! I realized I hate fashion. For some, vaping might be a trend (though I disagree). Not everyone holds a warm place in their heart for the "trendy".