Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[Outre]

I agree with you.

Something I realized some time ago is that laws only become necessary when people fail to regulate their own behavior.

vaping in a doctor's office waiting area is inconsiderate and plain rude. You have NO idea what the other patients are there for and NO idea what they are allergic to.

Can we BOTHER to put a little mental effort in and REMEMBER that some people are allergic to PG and/or VG?

Some people and children may be allergic to certain ingredients used to flavor the vape liquid.

Arguing this over use in a doctor's office is silly. Not vaping in a doctor's office, hospital emergency room, hospital room, etc., is a NO BRAINER.

Forcing others to endure vaping is akin to bullying. Period.

OP is correct - vapers are the reason vaping will get a bad name. You are only giving the anti crowd ammunition.

Is the miniscule, fleeting, petty delight you feel when one of them goes off about it really worth the hammer coming down on the entire activity, and community?

Tsk...

(I will not be back to argue this, honestly this should not have to be brought up)

 

[Jman8]

Tsk...

(I will not be back to argue this, honestly this should not have to be brought up)

IOW, my reasoning can not stand up to scrutiny, and I'm so certain that I'm absolutely right and anyone else that disagrees is wrong, that such a discussion is beneath me. Again, tis not me that is the bully, you are with your indoor vaping!

 

[Yankez]

As a smoker, I was a conscientious one. I wouldn't smoke in crowds, parks or anywhere someone else in the direct vicinity might be subject to my 2nd hand smoke.

As a vaper, I try to follow the same principle.... within reason.

Although 2nd hand vape might not be harmful, I still feel the need to respect others when doing so.

Taking the liberty of vaping wherever someone pleases will just continue to surmount the unsure / negative feelings the unknowing public already has to vaping

Showing respect will make vaping easier for the general public to deal with and accept

Just my 2 cents

 

[Jman8]

Taking the liberty of vaping wherever someone pleases will just continue to surmount the unsure / negative feelings the unknowing public already has to vaping

Good reason to never ever vape outdoors in public.

Congratulations on your logic that no politically aware vaper espouses.

 

[Berylanna]

As a smoker, I was a conscientious one. I wouldn't smoke in crowds, parks or anywhere someone else in the direct vicinity might be subject to my 2nd hand smoke.

As a vaper, I try to follow the same principle.... within reason.

Although 2nd hand vape might not be harmful, I still feel the need to respect others when doing so.

Taking the liberty of vaping wherever someone pleases will just continue to surmount the unsure / negative feelings the unknowing public already has to vaping

Showing respect will make vaping easier for the general public to deal with and accept

Just my 2 cents

There is a huge difference between vaping wherever one pleases and treating vapor like smoke. For instance, I explained vapor to folks in my office (before anybody had heard of it) and soon they were asking me why the hell I was still going outside. I explained I didn't want to be rude. They looked at me like I was crazy. Now I still go outside (it doesn't feel like a break if I don't) but I also occasionally take a puff IN, but not out, in the hallway, or in my office. Not when someone is right there, but someone might be at the other end of the hallway.

It's kept it in peoples' minds that it is NOT smoke, because they can't smell it. (I'm not blowing clouds, and not vaping right in peoples' faces.) Now when the ANTZ come on the news with some hysterical fear-mongering, my friend tell me "Uh, oh, those bad patch corporations look like they're winning. You have my sympathy!"

There are a lot of possibilities on a wide spectrum between hiding and offending the AVERAGE person. And I also don't vape in crowds, indoors or out. But I do vape indoors, fairly stealth-style, and do NOT blow clouds inside, so that I'm teaching people that it's not smoke, not by lecturing but by letting them see. And I quit if I get so much as a distant dirty look. But that is SO rare if I'm being otherwise FAIRLY respectful. Respectful, NOT ASHAMED.

And since vapor is FOOD vapor, not water vapor, I do not vape where it would be inappropriate to put hot food into the air, such as the childrens' section of the library.

Please folks, do NOT teach the public that this should be treated like smoke. The two ways we teach people it is like smoke are to treat it like smoke, or to treat it like nothing. It's not nothing, and it's not smoke.

 

[Yankez]

Good reason to never ever vape outdoors in public.

Congratulations on your logic that no politically aware vaper espouses.

I never said not to vape in public. I vape in public all the time.

But to vape indoors without checking with the establishments policy is crossing a line in my opinion.

Vapor and cigarette smoke are 2 completely different things. As vapers..we know this. But to someone who doesn't vape or looked into what vaping really is, they're one and the same.

Hiding while vaping will not get the public used to it. But trying to jam vaping down their throats so we, as vapers, can vape wherever and whenever we please is counter productive and will make any bills the gov't tries to pass easier

 

[Berylanna]

I never said not to vape in public. I vape in public all the time.

But to vape indoors without checking with the establishments policy is crossing a line in my opinion.

Vapor and cigarette smoke are 2 completely different things. As vapers..we know this. But to someone who doesn't vape or looked into what vaping really is, they're one and the same.

Hiding while vaping will not get the public used to it. But trying to jam vaping down their throats so we, as vapers, can vape wherever and whenever we please is counter productive and will make any bills the gov't tries to pass easier

I feel strongly that a lot of that part is quite location-dependent. I vape (NOT with clouds) without asking in Irish bars near San Jose, I would NEVER vape in a California-style restaurant in a high-income area without asking. Change states, or even change counties, and the culture could be quite different.

 

[Jman8]

I never said not to vape in public. I vape in public all the time.

But to vape indoors without checking with the establishments policy is crossing a line in my opinion.

And IMO, you cross that same line if you don't check with land owner/manager on the outdoor policy as well.

I'm thinking you and others would say it isn't always feasible to check, and then justify it as okay because you're outside. I would say same line is crossed there as one I may cross when I vape indoors because I don't feel like going to service desk of say a Target to find out their policy on vaping and just assume it'll be no problem in this great big wide open space.

Vapor and cigarette smoke are 2 completely different things. As vapers..we know this. But to someone who doesn't vape or looked into what vaping really is, they're one and the same.

This doesn't match my experience. I've vaped openly in restaurants and feeling very confident that if I smoked in those same situations that the non-vapers (presumably non-smokers) would not be okay with it, and would visibly show disgust. Likely telling me or manager that unless I put it out, they will leave the establishment.

I think on threads like this, we assume that all non-vapers are in one big homogenous category and that they likely hate secondhand vapor as much as they despise second hand smoking. But of all the times I've vaped indoors, I am yet to see a person that is visibly disgusted by my secondhand vapor. And if they are secretly disgusted, keeping that hidden/silent, that to me is no different than being in place where people are secretly bothered by the umpteen things that bother humans when we are all congregated together.

Hiding while vaping will not get the public used to it. But trying to jam vaping down their throats so we, as vapers, can vape wherever and whenever we please is counter productive and will make any bills the gov't tries to pass easier

This underlined part shows up in this sort of thread often. This and the "blowing it in peoples faces." Both of those things can just as easily occur with outdoors vaping, but again, I'm thinking overwhelming majority of vapers have little to no issue with vaping outdoors and not concerned if say wind takes vapor and jams it in another persons face. Wouldn't be enough for vapers all around to say, wait, let's pause and stop vaping outdoors because of that one incident where someone said they were outdoors and wind blew vapor right into their face.

I advocate for vaping everywhere (indoors) with respect. Not once, have I come remotely close to blowing a cloud in someone's face, and so never have I jammed it down someone's throat. That would be vaping without respect. And that could just as easily occur outdoors (anywhere) as it could indoors.

IMO, opposition on these threads doesn't actually have a good argument unless they bring up the disrespectful kind of vaping and pretend like that is rampant and what 'normal' vaping looks like indoors. In OP of this thread, that isn't found. Instead, it is just the sight of it that sent a fellow vaper into a tizzy fit. IMO, that same vaper could be outdoors at say a park that has kids, and if someone dared vape that day, in that space, then OMG, everyone pause and no longer treat vaping outdoors as this safe activity that we've all held to be as perfectly okay.

 

[LDS714]

I feel strongly that a lot of that part is quite location-dependent. I vape (NOT with clouds) without asking in Irish bars near San Jose, I would NEVER vape in a California-style restaurant in a high-income area without asking. Change states, or even change counties, and the culture could be quite different.

THIS!!!!

People either aren't cognizant of the fact or forget that "normal" behavior varies widely and wildly based on geographical location.

Problems arise when people either think everywhere is the same, or more dangerous to liberty, thinks everywhere should be the same.

 

[DC2]

I'm going to ask again, because it's not as easy to give up on vaping as it is to give up on some vapists:

Are you really willing to gamble with the future of vaping because you don't believe the consorted efforts of CASAA, ECF, B&M's and consumers can't be leveraged to hire a lobbyist in each state? If not, triage what states need lobbyists the most? If the aforementioned entities worked toward such a goal I have no doubt they would succeed.

WHY DO I KEEP POSTING WHEN I KNOW NO ONE IS LISTENING! I NEED MENTAL HELP!

It's too bad you have moved on Jay-dub, because now there is an organization (Vista) that is doing what you hoped for...
Vista Truth Inc. | A Vaping Industry Supported Proactive Advocacy Non-Profit

 

[Anjaffm]

It's too bad you have moved on Jay-dub, because now there is an organization (Vista) that is doing what you hoped for...
Vista Truth Inc. | A Vaping Industry Supported Proactive Advocacy Non-Profit

Interesting indeed.
Let me read the link. Thank you for the information.

 

[zoiDman]

It's too bad you have moved on Jay-dub, because now there is an organization (Vista) that is doing what you hoped for...
Vista Truth Inc. | A Vaping Industry Supported Proactive Advocacy Non-Profit

It's kinda Hard to Tell Exactly what Vista does?

Or how they are going to Go About Doing it?

 

[DC2]

It's kinda Hard to Tell Exactly what Vista does?

Or how they are going to Go About Doing it?

From what I understand they are attempting to build a network of state-level lobbyists.

Dimitris Agrafiotis (VP Live) is the Secretary
Jesse Ray (Basilray) is the Treasurer

Apparently they have so far engaged one lobbyist in Florida who had a positive effect on some legislation there.

 

[zoiDman]

From what I understand they are attempting to build a network of state-level lobbyists.

Dimitris Agrafiotis (VP Live) is the Secretary
Jesse Ray (Basilray) is the Treasurer

Apparently they have so far engaged one lobbyist in Florida who had a positive effect on some legislation there.

That was kinda the Take I came away with.

I was Surprised that they Didn't have some kind of Mission Statement. But they could be Fresh Out of the Box. And still in the Process of Building their Web Presence.

---

BTW - I know who Dimitris is. And I'm not going to Comment on VP Live. But wasn't Basilray the guy who's Avatar used to be a Picture of him wearing a Red Devo Hat?

 

[DC2]

But wasn't Basilray the guy who's Avatar used to be a Picture of him wearing a Red Devo Hat?

Yes.

....................

 

[zoiDman]

Gotcha

======================

 

[Ripshod]

I started vaping about 6 months ago; I am now completely winged off "Analog" cigarettes. I am glad that there is a Safer alternative to smoking, but I always hear and see complaints about E cigarette users. Now I treat my E-Cig as I would if it were a "Analog", I don't smoke in Walmarts or in Restaurants, because even though it's not a "Real" cigarette I find it disrespectful to others around you (Who don't smoke).

THANK YOU!!
I vape with the smokers. Join the club guys and stop blowing clouds in public places, even with permission. Gives us a bad name/image!!

 

[Baldr]

THANK YOU!!
I vape with the smokers. Join the club guys and stop blowing clouds in public places, even with permission. Gives us a bad name/image!!

Pretending that we're smoking won't help us.

You're saying that even if we have permission, we should still treat it like smoking and hang out with the smokers.

I quit smoking years ago. I don't want to stink like you do.

 

[jpargana]

THANK YOU!!
I vape with the smokers. Join the club guys and stop blowing clouds in public places, even with permission. Gives us a bad name/image!!

Sorry, but I believe we should not implicitly confirm the wild stories the general public is being fed on the media.

You were vaping with the smokers, and return inside reeking of tobacco smell? Someone will think "It IS true, after all: e-cigarette 'smoke' smells as bad as tobacco."

People see you - an actual user, not just some uninformed person - treating vaping like smoking? "It IS true, after all: I have heard that vaping 'might' be even more dangerous than tobacco... them vapers better stay well away from me!"

Later, when new anti-tobacco laws and ordinances are extended to vaping, with no scientific reason whatsoever, the average Joe will support them, because the users themselves have 'shown' him that e-cigarettes are just a 'novel, untested tobacco product', and therefore, it's quite reasonable and fair that they should be treated like one.

This is further misinforming an already misinformed public, and will do much more harm too us than being given a 'bad name', just for treating the e-cig as something apart from tobacco cigarettes - which it is.

The 'bad name' you speak of has been given to us by the media circus, long before there were many of us - unconsiderate or otherwise - to be even spotted. Back in 2009, the disinformation campaign had already begun. Many people who were demanding for e-cig bans did it because they blindly believed in what the media, and 'health' and 'lung' 'organizations' and 'coalitions' fed them. Big Pharma, the usual sponsor of said organizations, had much to lose with the arrival of our devices, so they tried to kill the e-cig industry in it's very infancy. They did that by spreading blatant lies 'the public' believed because they did not know better. They did not know better because they had no idea of what an e-cigarette actually was. Because there were few of us, and many were doing the fatal mistake of further giving 'the public' the wrong idea. "I'll vape only in smoking areas, so that later 'they' do not forbid me from vaping outside smoking areas"... well, they're doing it anyway, sadly in part because many of us have fuelled those blatant lies in the past...!

Of course, we should not vape anywhere we want to. We need the support of a properly informed public, not putting that public against us. So, inside, I will vape with the owner's permission. If the owner allows it, you are not going to find me vaping outside. The only way to properly inform the public so that they can support us, is making sure it understands that vaping is not smoking.

Outside, of course, it's fair game: I will vape anywhere. Even if it was tobacco, I would not be jeopardizing anyone's health. Anti-smoking rules outside are just based on ideology. I believe I should not help that insane ideology to be extended to vaping.

 

[DC2]

Pretending that we're smoking won't help us.

You're saying that even if we have permission, we should still treat it like smoking and hang out with the smokers.

I quit smoking years ago. I don't want to stink like you do.

I like and respect you, but I want to point out that he just said don't blow clouds.
I think that is a good idea, no matter what else we do or don't do.


I can understand the idea of vaping everywhere.
But it doesn't have to be cloud blowing.