Why Vaping won't ever convert the masses (of smokers)

[Munk]

Look, I know people need to educate themselves, and that they should take responsibility for their own actions (or lack thereof). But come on, is it really that hard to understand how these things can happen? Someone who is otherwise intelligent and responsible is browsing the web for vape gear. They don't want anything too complex, just something simple and straight forward to start out with. So they spot a simple mech mod, one button, no screens or settings to mess up, it's cheap, perfect! They watch a couple videos on how to make coils and the rest is history, along with their face.

Even intelligent and responsible people can make mistakes, especially when the dangers of their actions aren't so obvious. Tinkering with a 3000lb machine that runs on explosive gas and can do 150mph with you strapped inside...those dangers seem obvious to me. Buying a small box, with one button, that runs off of one battery, might not even cross their mind as being something that warrants much caution.

Again, just playing devil's advocate here. People don't normally approach everything they get as a potential grenade, because most devices wont blow up if you do something wrong. Why would the uninformed think any differently of vape gear?

It seems like a relatively easy mistake to make. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Lessifer]

Look, I know people need to educate themselves, and that they should take responsibility for their own actions (or lack thereof). But come on, is it really that hard to understand how these things can happen? Someone who is otherwise intelligent and responsible is browsing the web for vape gear. They don't want anything too complex, just something simple and straight forward to start out with. So they spot a simple mech mod, one button, no screens or settings to mess up, it's cheap, perfect! They watch a couple videos on how to make coils and the rest is history, along with their face.

Even intelligent and responsible people can make mistakes, especially when the dangers of their actions aren't so obvious. Tinkering with a 3000lb machine that runs on explosive gas and can do 150mph with you strapped inside...those dangers seem obvious to me. Buying a small box, with one button, that runs off of one battery, might not even cross their mind as being something that warrants much caution.

Again, just playing devil's advocate here. People don't normally approach everything they get as a potential grenade, because most devices wont blow up if you do something wrong. Why would the uninformed think any differently of vape gear?

It seems like a relatively easy mistake to make. That's all I'm saying.

It obviously happens. What's your point? In your analogy there should have been at least three warnings. On the site where they bought the mech, red letters FOR ADVANCED USERS. On the site where they bought the atomizer, especially if it's an RBA, FOR ADVANCED USERS. In the YouTube vid, any responsible video maker gives a warning, or you watch them check for shorts.

Yes, there are people who do not heed warnings.

 

[Lessifer]

It used to be that to get to "advanced gear" you had to seek it out. Now it's becoming more mainstream, so more people are using them, and they don't all necessarily learn about them first.

There are people every year that hurt themselves on chainsaws, table saws, skateboards, bicycles, bathtubs, toasters, electrical sockets, etc. people, on the whole, are darwin's nightmares.

 

[7sixtwo]

Look, I know people need to educate themselves, and that they should take responsibility for their own actions (or lack thereof). But come on, is it really that hard to understand how these things can happen? Someone who is otherwise intelligent and responsible is browsing the web for vape gear. They don't want anything too complex, just something simple and straight forward to start out with. So they spot a simple mech mod, one button, no screens or settings to mess up, it's cheap, perfect! They watch a couple videos on how to make coils and the rest is history, along with their face.

Even intelligent and responsible people can make mistakes, especially when the dangers of their actions aren't so obvious. Tinkering with a 3000lb machine that runs on explosive gas and can do 150mph with you strapped inside...those dangers seem obvious to me. Buying a small box, with one button, that runs off of one battery, might not even cross their mind as being something that warrants much caution.

Again, just playing devil's advocate here. People don't normally approach everything they get as a potential grenade, because most devices wont blow up if you do something wrong. Why would the uninformed think any differently of vape gear?

It seems like a relatively easy mistake to make. That's all I'm saying.

I object to your calling a mod "a grenade". That's ridiculous. You vastly underestimate actual grenades, and should respect them more. Even if a battery vents in someone's face, it's much more like a roman candle.

Seriously though, I don't buy your argument, at all. Imo, any "intelligent and responsible" person would do a little research on any new thing before trying it, and that would be enough to see at least one strongly worded warning about battery safety, especially when looking at info on mech mods.

If the internal combustion engine were invented tomorrow, the damned idiot Gubmint would immediately ban it, "for the children".

 

[daviedog]

Just to point out that I'm not being overly paranoid, take a look at this thread
ECITA say that chargers above 500mA are not safe to use for charging your batteries

I did,, respondents seemed to be unimpressed or baffled by ecita's edict.
Date 2014 ?
Do diligent research on USB..

 

[Munk]

On the contrary, I think the argument is being opposed so vehemently because of how much sense it makes. But I digress. If you disagree then you disagree, and that's okay with this fellow. My intention was to entertain the other side of the argument and I think I've done that. Force of habit as a philosophy minor.

Carry on.

 

[crxess]

On the contrary, I think the argument is being opposed so vehemently because of how much sense it makes. But I digress. If you disagree then you disagree, and that's okay with this fellow. My intention was to entertain the other side of the argument and I think I've done that. Force of habit as a philosophy minor.

Carry on.

Lets play with you all's Car analogy a bit more and maybe Dumb it down a bit.
At age(x) state dependent, one may receive a Drivers license after passing some written questions< a passing percentage> and showing minor functional capabilities in an automobile on a close course.
*Often this would equate to Vaping ones first cig-a-like without issues and maybe recharging it without blowing anything up.

Now comes the real challenge - Knowing enough to operate that Same or another Vehicle in Traffic under ever changing conditions on a daily basis without causing damage or injury to one self or others.

Most Idiots can pass a driving test, and in fact most do. Those that pay attention and educate themselves on driving defensively are the ones that go on for years without causing an accident.
*Advancing Vapers

No need to get all Blown high performance or otherwise. Simple day to day functionality and ability to adapt.

 

[NOVA jon]

Okay, now include this thought:
You, myself, and every other member/person you discuss as now knowing, once was at point -0-
The only reason any of us is in a different situation than any of the less educated is that we took the time and were interested enough in SAFE Vaping to Ask/learn before proceeding.


4 short years ago I had no clue about Vaping or anything related to vaping, yet I was on a journey to find a way to stop smoking.
Since that humble beginning I have learned everything possible about each change in my vaping style before proceeding, for my safety.

I wanted to like this more than once!

As do I (libertarian here) but I'm also a realist. Things that are outwardly dangerous like skydiving only require common sense to recognize the inherent danger (and thus the need for extensive research). Vaping, though, seems quite innocuous on the surface. Not realizing that in depth research is needed is not as surprising with vaping as it would be with something that is blatantly dangerous.

I'm not saying these people are not responsible for their own actions, just that I can understand how easy it could be for the inexperienced to make a severe mistake.

I'm not so sure it's as innocuous as you may think anymore. As big a deal the media makes out of "exploding ecigs" these days, why would you NOT want to know as much as possible before you make the decision to vape??!!

I just think that having to spoon feed those unwilling to "look" for the information needed, is part and parcel to the nanny state we are quickly approaching anymore!!

 

[jjatl]

Here's the thing.

You'll flame me. You'll say TL;DR...

But there's a number of points I need to get off my chest...

I love vaping, by the way. I still have the occasional analog (crazy term but still). I've recently got into sub-ohm vaping because:

1. My ....ty ego batts and clearomisers were just, well, crap.
2. I 'accidentally' bought a Kanger Subox Mini

So as you see, I never planned for subohm, I just got a box mod as basically a better vaping device, as someone who might upgrade from a Ford Focus to a BMW 3 series.

Then problems started occurring, which made me realize that for all the bad longevity of the ego, they were, at least, maintenance-free. Now I was trying to fix leaks, taking pieces apart, re-wicking coils. I needed to set aside a mini workshop in my home just for the maintenance. To the forums, I thought. Surely no-one else has to put in this much effort just to vape, right?

Wrong. You all do, but more surprisingly, you all seem to love it. Rather like if you drive a car, as most of us do, but have little technical knowledge about it, and how we occasionally venture to a car forum. You'll often hear people saying "oh it's the rear axle manifold, but it's easy to do yourself. You just blah, blah, blah". Fine if you have the time, an empty garage, etc, etc. Fine if you love fixing up cars, right.

But with smoking, I never 'loved' smoking, not the concept at least. I just had to smoke. I didn't go around with paraphanlia dedicated to smoking, prosletyzing ways of keeping tobacco fresher or going to smoking conventions. I just smoked. Now of course 'some' smokers are like this, but the majority aren't.

Vaping, sadly, is a steep learning curve for the non-initiated, and whereas I expect most of you to disagree with me, I feel there is a silent majority who may stumble across boards like this, read diagrams of how to convert pi's theorum of fibonacci numbers so you get the right balance between 'balancing your ohms' and causing the device to blow a hole in your face (more on that in a bit), that I bet most people who have lives, but who happen to smoke in them, just think, "erm... okay. I think I'll stick with smoking then".

When I tell friends that I've managed to give up, but talk about RBAs and introducing liquid into Japanese Cotton through a dropper, they glaze over and say "wow, you must really love vaping then". Thing is I don't. I wanted something to replace regular cigarettes, not a 24/7 craft hobby.

My fear is, even though most of you will vehemently defend your love of tinkering, eternally pursuing that perfect 'hit', I am right in saying that a lot of people will just find it too much effort, that even a working piece of kit will fail after a few weeks unless you learn about maintenance, cleaning and a lot of stuff I could do without.

Then there's the whole safety thing...

I preached for months to friends (and even strangers) that were smokers and non-smokers alike, telling them there was this new thing that allowed you to feel like you were smoking but was PERFECTLY SAFE. There were a lot of nay-sayers, let me tell you, but I won through for the most part in that I argued that however bad these eliquids could be, could they really be worse than the contents of a real cigarette (or analog, w/e)?

Unfortunately it was never the liquid we should have feared. It was the hardware.

The fundamental problem with all e-cigarettes, the ones that 'do the job' correctly, the flaw that will always be the thorn in it's size.

...is China.

You may call me racist, I have nothing against the Chinese. But let's put the cards on the table. They aren't known globally for their standards. You read stories every day about people dying over there, or being horrifically injured by machinery that has failed or gone awry due to their poor (or non-existant) safety standards.

All the box mods, it appears, without exception (please someone tell me I'm wrong. PLEASE!) are made in China.

So then I was on another forum, or maybe it was this one, I don't know, and someone posted a list of e-cigarette accidents...

Now bear in mind this isn't like "singed an eyebrow" type ..... This is like scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling through events and then realizing you are still in April 2016, casually looking at the scroll bar on the right, not being able to see it, then seeing a pixel-wide line, still close to the top of the screen.

But not all these incidents are bad, right? For this list to be so long. Right?

Kinda. It reads sorta like.

1. 3rd degree burns on leg, scarred for life
2. 3rd degree burns on arm, scarred for life
3. Entire front teeth blown out, scarred for life.

Ah but that's not too bad right

4. Child loses eye while staff DEMONSTRATE an ecig to him at a mall.

HE'S NOT EVEN BOUGHT THE ....ING THING YET!

Aha, but before you rebut, I already know what you're going to say. It will echo the comments that usually follow news stories like this.

"Ah yeah but I bet he was using a calibrated mechanical with a dripper with a non-compatible 510 without calculating his ohm resistance using pythagoras' equation of Lancelot's Diversion and failed to think about the solar flare activity that day. ....ing noob."

Yeah he probably was. ....ing noob is right. In fact is there another hobby that people can just wander into, with so many self-proclaimed experts, that can be so cruel to the uninitiated? Failing DIY base-jumping, that is?

The point I'm trying to make is if vaping now is so fraught with potential danger, and it's necessary to have a certain amount (oh, who are we kidding, quite a reasonable amount) of knowledge about the subject, what not to do, etc, then how can it hope to attract smokers that weren't tobacco-fetishists, you know, the normal, everyday people who just happened to smoke.

I mean I used to enjoy smoking most when I was drunk. Now I can't dare vape if I'm drunk. What if I need to change a coil mid-way? Well not too much, as I have that 'reasonable' degree of knowledge. But what about first-timers? Maybe those bomb disposal outfits that armies have should come with?

But the worst thing has to be the elitism I've found amongst the most hard-core vapers on forums. They will offer no sympathy to the uninitiated, and resent people who just want to get on with things without any effort (you know, like regular smoking) and try to either tell them they should invest more of their time to achieve what used to be so simple, and then shunning said questioner if they point out that they don't have the time, the willpower, etc.

Oh yeah, when I bought my Subox, the site in question said on the order page "this doesn't come with a battery... it needs THIS battery... would you like to buy THIS battery from us as well as the boxmod?"

I said "sure, why not". It came. I charged it. I used it. Then there was a product recall about two weeks later. "Buy this one from us" they now said. "okay, I said".

They sent me an E Fest 18650. You know, the kind that are now generally known as being slightly more stable than carrying around a pack of C4 in a bag full of hammers...

So yeah, had to become an expert in batteries now too. Just so I could scour forums, spend hours on search engines trying to find which battery wouldn't take a limb from me, or knock a six inch hole into my neighbor's house. No really. I'm loving this new hobby.

In fact I'm looking forward to the next part. Maybe my tanks are leaking because they're plastic? .... it, lemme learn glass blowing and I'll make my own Pyrex ones. Ultimately there'll be no time for anything but this, I may as well quit my job.

Or, as new initiates will find, simply go back to smoking...

Let me first say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. I found it quite humorous, and while I do not agree on everything you stated, I thought you addressed many great points.

Personally, I believe that as vaping products and the industry evolves, everything will become much more user friendly. I don't think vaping could ever be as convenient as being able to carry a pack of cigs and a book of matches, but I do think that the hardware manufacturers will be able to create devices that are easier to use.

Think about it this way, back in the '80s, PCs were crazy expensive and ridiculously complicated to operate. The vast majority of the population could never see how that product would ever be able to make it into the majority of houses in the country. As the products and industry progressed, everything became significantly easier to use. Personally, I do not know a single person without a computer whether it be a mobile device, laptop or PC. They have become so simple, i see toddlers at restaurants operating them.

I think we will see the same thing with Vaping Hardware. There will continue to be a hobbyist market, just like PCs, but the majority of the hardware will become much more plug-n-play. T

 

[drysprocket]

Great post, and a brave one. I really can't argue with any of your points. I feel the same at times, only to a lesser degree. It's a topic we should definitely think about more.

 

[7sixtwo]

Let me first say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. I found it quite humorous, and while I do not agree on everything you stated, I thought you addressed many great points.

Personally, I believe that as vaping products and the industry evolves, everything will become much more user friendly. I don't think vaping could ever be as convenient as being able to carry a pack of cigs and a book of matches, but I do think that the hardware manufacturers will be able to create devices that are easier to use...

I think this has already happened, for the most part. You should've seen the janky crap new vapers were having to use as recently as 2013, (let alone 2010). The choices were between weak, primitive, regulated APV's, or mech mods. Said primitive APV's were also ~$50+ each.

Today, there are around a dozen excellent starter kits on the market, for as little as ~$25, and the only thing they don't include is juice, (and batteries, in some cases). They're easy as hell to safely operate, if you can read.

How much more "plug n play" could it get? At what point does additional simplification and/or "safety features" start to restrict innovation for those of us who aren't simpletons?

Obviously, the last thing the industry needs is Gubmint interference. If the nefarious bureaucrats have their way, anyone interested in vaping will have their choice of a handful of horrible cigalikes made by Big Tobaccy, which will cost more than cigarettes, after passing a background check and some mandatory "safety" classes, of course.

 

[jjatl]

I think this has already happened, for the most part. You should've seen the janky crap new vapers were having to use as recently as 2013, (let alone 2010). The choices were between weak, primitive, regulated APV's, or mech mods. Said primitive APV's were also ~$50+ each.

Today, there are around a dozen excellent starter kits on the market, for as little as ~$25, and the only thing they don't include is juice, (and batteries, in some cases). They're easy as hell to safely operate, if you can read.

How much more "plug n play" could it get? At what point does additional simplification and/or "safety features" start to restrict innovation for those of us who aren't simpletons?

Obviously, the last thing the industry needs is Gubmint interference. If the nefarious bureaucrats have their way, anyone interested in vaping will have their choice of a handful of horrible cigalikes made by Big Tobaccy, which will cost more than cigarettes, after passing a background check and some mandatory "safety" classes, of course.

You are correct in saying that there have been incredible strides over the past few years in making great little starter kits, but do I think they are as good as they will get? No way! I think they will continue making huge improvements in quality and ease of use for new vapers.

As I mentioned, barring any interference, the industry will continue catering to the hobbyist. Over simplification of starter devices has no baring on the hobbyist segment of the market.

 

[GeorgeS]

Funny how this thread took a turn.....

I recall being a bit puzzled and dismayed when I dropped in a local Smoke/Vape shop to see everything but beginner gear on clearance. I inquired "whats up with this?" and the owner said that simple gear with replaceable atomizers is what his customers are wanting. He can't GIVE the advanced stuff away.

As I mentioned earlier on this thread smoking cigarettes is DAMN EASY! Here's where the disposable "cigalikes" are popular. Sure they suck but they deliver nicotine better than gum, losenges or patches do (the official alternatives). Ditto with the "Blu", "Vue" and other rechargables. While it is arguable that few (if any) get %100 off cigarettes by utilizing any of these devices the darned things can be found just about everywhere and by all accounts they are being sold to SOMEONE.

Here it becomes a matter of what "goals" the smoker might have. Is it get off smoking at any cost or do they need to save money as well? How much "fiddling" with the juice+gear are they willing to tolerate? How much are they willing to invest?

While decent "starter kits" (with rebuildable and/or replaceable atomizers) can easily be put together for less than the cost of a 10pack box of cigarettes how many smokers are willing to "gamble" a weeks worth of smokes on some new fangled thing?

For many is just easier to continue smoking.

 

[smacuser]

 

[Lessifer]

On the contrary, I think the argument is being opposed so vehemently because of how much sense it makes. But I digress. If you disagree then you disagree, and that's okay with this fellow. My intention was to entertain the other side of the argument and I think I've done that. Force of habit as a philosophy minor.

Carry on.

What argument? What was your argument? That people don't learn what they should and get hurt? That's not really up for debate. Some people have gotten hurt. Less than most other consumer goods of note, but some have. The VAST majority of users have not injured themselves.

As to the OP, the major obstacle to vapor products getting into the hands of the masses is the smear campaign running against them. For those who are truly interested, the learning curve is about as steep as going from an old Nokia to an iPhone.

 

[devilzrox]

Obviously, the last thing the industry needs is Gubmint interference. If the nefarious bureaucrats have their way, anyone interested in vaping will have their choice of a handful of horrible cigalikes made by Big Tobaccy, which will cost more than cigarettes, after passing a background check and some mandatory "safety" classes, of course.

That would suck, and it's been something I've feared for a while. I was just concerned that there seemed to be so many incidents involving batteries that maybe something needed to be done about that. The issue with this is just as bad with the crappy cigalikes, especially when you take a look at their chargers.

I had overlooked how the newly converted masses might deal with safety aspects that seem obvious to me. I build computers. I'm quite OCD It took me a while (and that list) to realise that a LOT of people are making mistakes when it comes to charging, and if it was a loss of property or pride, I'd say it was part of the learning curve. But they're being maimed for life for the most part. I'm just not as cavalier as a lot of you seem to be about them, with stuff like "stupid is as stupid does" or recommending them for the Darwin awards. This is a hellish situation, our fellow people are getting hurt, hell fellow vapers at that, albeit newbies.

I think the problem lies with the fact that people are used to charging kit in general whilst on the move. Look at the rise in popularity of portable battery packs and car chargers for phones. What about recent quitters who go to festivals or camping or the like? There isn't enough information about charging mods on the move. Most advice is simply "don't use battery packs" or "don't use car chargers". A lot of people won't be satisfied with this and will think "well surely there is a way?". I for one am still seeking an alternative to a 18650 carry pouch and swapping them into the mod as and when needed, but it works at least.

You are correct in saying that there have been incredible strides over the past few years in making great little starter kits, but do I think they are as good as they will get? No way! I think they will continue making huge improvements in quality and ease of use for new vapers.

I know, the current products are awesome, and I can't wait for the future. I just want vaping to go back to having a positive image in the public eye, which is why my OP stressed how injuries caused to themselves by, shall we say "the ignorant" or "the uninitiated" will only cause further damage to the public perception of vaporisers. I almost feel it my duty, as a vaper, and as someone who wants more people to convert/quit, to seek a way to address this, rather than to brush it under the carpet whilst thinking "well they should have done more reading". One of the worst culprits is point-of-sale vaporiser sellers, case in point in malls... they (some) send the customers off with less information than they would get from a website if they were buying there.

I think it's about striking the balance between informing people more, whilst not over-complicating the issue.

 

[Lessifer]

That would suck, and it's been something I've feared for a while. I was just concerned that there seemed to be so many incidents involving batteries that maybe something needed to be done about that. The issue with this is just as bad with the crappy cigalikes, especially when you take a look at their chargers.

I had overlooked how the newly converted masses might deal with safety aspects that seem obvious to me. I build computers. I'm quite OCD It took me a while (and that list) to realise that a LOT of people are making mistakes when it comes to charging, and if it was a loss of property or pride, I'd say it was part of the learning curve. But they're being maimed for life for the most part. I'm just not as cavalier as a lot of you seem to be about them, with stuff like "stupid is as stupid does" or recommending them for the Darwin awards. This is a hellish situation, our fellow people are getting hurt, hell fellow vapers at that, albeit newbies.

I think the problem lies with the fact that people are used to charging kit in general whilst on the move. Look at the rise in popularity of portable battery packs and car chargers for phones. What about recent quitters who go to festivals or camping or the like? There isn't enough information about charging mods on the move. Most advice is simply "don't use battery packs" or "don't use car chargers". A lot of people won't be satisfied with this and will think "well surely there is a way?". I for one am still seeking an alternative to a 18650 carry pouch and swapping them into the mod as and when needed, but it works at least.



I know, the current products are awesome, and I can't wait for the future. I just want vaping to go back to having a positive image in the public eye, which is why my OP stressed how injuries caused to themselves by, shall we say "the ignorant" or "the uninitiated" will only cause further damage to the public perception of vaporisers. I almost feel it my duty, as a vaper, and as someone who wants more people to convert/quit, to seek a way to address this, rather than to brush it under the carpet whilst thinking "well they should have done more reading". One of the worst culprits is point-of-sale vaporiser sellers, case in point in malls... they (some) send the customers off with less information than they would get from a website if they were buying there.

I think it's about striking the balance between informing people more, whilst not over-complicating the issue.

Again, the "explosions" that are really battery ventings, almost always occur due to a hard short, not a charging issue. Charging improperly usually leads to a fire, which is exceptionally dangerous if you are charging unattended.

There are some bad businesses out there, that are not doing their diligence in at least providing a warning that certain pieces of equipment should not be used together, and hopefully those will be eliminated by market forces. It's a bit like the "hoverboard" fad though, fly by night businesses and consumers who don't consider what they're dealing with.

A new vaper may not know WHAT they don't know, but they should be aware if they know nothing. People are too used to having big brother making everything "safe."

ETA: and the media doesn't help at all. They don't discuss why something happened, or how to prevent it, they just show the gory pictures and print the scary headline. They also don't report on all of the other electronic/battery accidents, so people aren't aware that they are potentially dangerous.

 

[rice721]

Tbh I didn't read thru the thread. But imho it's bc there is quite a steep learning curve to vaping vs using a lighter to fire up a cigarette and start puffing away.

 

[Munk]

What argument? What was your argument? That people don't learn what they should and get hurt? That's not really up for debate. Some people have gotten hurt. Less than most other consumer goods of note, but some have. The VAST majority of users have not injured themselves.

As to the OP, the major obstacle to vapor products getting into the hands of the masses is the smear campaign running against them. For those who are truly interested, the learning curve is about as steep as going from an old Nokia to an iPhone.

Weren't the arguments clearly stated?

The first is that getting easy/safe vape gear presupposes that the masses already be knowledgeable of what options are available to them. And yet, these non-hobbyists are likely the same individuals who aren't inclined to do the necessary research to know what to get. The result are people getting equipment that require more involvement than what they are willing to give. I'm not saying we (or the gobermint) need to cater to these people, just that it's the reality of the situation. Vaping can be very complicated, and knowing how to avoid the hassles ironically requires semi-hobbyist level knowhow, which the masses won't have or are willing to work for.

The second argument is almost identical to the first, but focuses on the dangers of vaping instead of the annoyances. The dangers of vaping are relatively nuanced, and the non-hobbyists aren't interested in nuances. There are a lot of simple looking mods that, unless used by the very knowledgable, can maim the user. Most personal electronic devices nowadays do not pose that risk, and the masses are expecting the same safety from ALL commercial vape gear. Should they have this expectation? Clearly not, but this isn't about how things should be, its about how things are. The masses won't tolerate that level of danger...not when it's their children who will pay such a sever price for such an easy mistake to make.

You don't have to like it, I know I don't, but not liking something and denying reality are two different things.

 

[Mowgli]

I think the hobby helped me quit in part, the tinkering, the reading, the community, the youtubes even the vape drama has helped.
That said, even if batteries and devises where as bad as they are painted out to be, I think it's still safer than smoking, yes smoking doesn't cause the immediate visible damage, but your chances of dying are still higher with smoking, just saying.

smoking caused fires - Google Search

Quick scan of results shows 700-900 fatalities/year
There are a few cigarette-caused burn scars on the bedroom floor in my house...