Why we should not promote ecigs

[wdave]

I currently vape while I'm in the office working. All day at my computer. It's like the good old days when we computer programmers had to throw away our keyboards because they were too stained with tar to be able to see the letters on the keys.

Of course now that ecigs are officially "tobacco products", my vaping is in violation of company policy, as company policy bans the use of any "tobacco product" on company premises.

However, nobody I know is aware of the FDA ruling, so they still don't complain about my vaping. And they don't care about ecigs enough to ever pay attention to anything concerning ecigs.

I'd sure like to keep vaping while working for as long as possible. I'd like ecigs to remain a closely guarded secret. Am I wrong?

Dave

 

[Religion]

LOL. I think most of us here want our cake and eat it too. We want all smokers to convert, no new taxes, no medical regulation, laws to prevent children from buying them, employers to accept them, etc. Somewhere we're going to lose one of those battles. But I am currently enjoying the position we are in right now (at least in the US) as much as you are. Only time will tell what will happen.

 

[haft2doit]

I agree with that to a point. I really don't want to pay more for using these. No doubt the FDA's involvement surely means more cost for me. On the positive this will mean there will be FDA approved studies (which they should have done before any of the crap they pulled.) which means the silly rumors can be put to bed and more and more people will benefit from these as I have. It is sad that ecigs couldn't stay under the radar but if they did I probably wouldn't have known about them. The more people that switch to these, the less people in hospitals, and better overall health for everyone. So the joyrides over but it was going to happen at some point.

I take it all back. I don't want them to make this as expensive as smoking!!!!

 

[Vapian]

I currently vape while I'm in the office working. ... Of course now that ecigs are officially "tobacco products", my vaping is in violation of company policy, as company policy bans the use of any "tobacco product" on company premises. ...

I wouldn't say you're "wrong" per se. But rules is rules... at least until rules change.

The primary reason most organizations banned "tobacco products" wholesale was that smokers often resorted to dipping or chewing, resulting in people spitting into something. Even if they're doing it into cans or bottles as opposed to the nearest trash can or water fountain it's a bit "gross", and if you've ever encountered a spill of such a container... well, it's just not pleasant.

Of course, within the set of "tobacco products" e-Cigs are a whole different class. No smoke, no spit. So they might be exempted from such policies, but it would have to be "official" to get by without repercussions.

I would say that as long as no one complains, vape away! There's probably little to be gained from bringing it up right away. However... you should be prepared for the day someone does say something, at which time it would be worth bringing the issue up with whoever sets the policy to see if it can be changed.

Keep in mind that the onus will be on you to prove that the vapor is equal to or no worse than an air freshener or someone's cologne/perfume -- especially if others in the office are known to use those items (I know us vapers believe that, but to my knowledge such a claim is not incontrovertible - at least, I have no solid evidence to point to yet). So until then I would gather up as much evidence as you can to support that claim to back up an exception for vaping.

You might even draft a revision yourself. If you do so, a trick I recommend is to write it the stuff you want added in as close to the same wording and format as the original (which makes it more difficult for them to want to change) and include or leave in some items that, psychologically, they cannot prevent themselves from changing (which makes them feel important for having broken out the red pen). This can only increase the chance that they will leave the stuff that's important to you alone.

Good luck and let us know how all this turns out.

 

[wrigleyvillain]

Yeah long story short we could still smoke IN the office through 2007 like ten years after it was officially against municipal law to do so (but we were able to get away with it until all public places had bans incl bars and restaurants). So no one really cares that I vape.

You bring up an interesting point though.

 

[haft2doit]

Very solid advice vapian.

 

[wdave]

You might even draft a revision yourself. If you do so, a trick I recommend is to write it the stuff you want added in as close to the same wording and format as the original (which makes it more difficult for them to want to change) and include or leave in some items that, psychologically, they cannot prevent themselves from changing (which makes them feel important for having broken out the red pen). This can only increase the chance that they will leave the stuff that's important to you alone.

That's a great idea Vapian. But get this. Last year I was concerned about ecig company policy. During a huge meeting with the department heads about health policy, I actually phoned in a question asking what the company policy will be on ecigs. Everyone in the room started laughing out loud. Perhaps a better solution is to just keep them laughing...

 

[fray]

I wouldn't promote it as a tobacco product. Maybe lay the frame work that they are as safe (we hope) as asthma inhalers. If it comes down to it say that there is no nicotine in the juice. (unless they are savvy enough to have a way of testing it) If they laughed when it was brought up I sounds like no one really cares. Keep HR on your side.

 

[Diablo]

I'm not sure I would classify it as a "tobacco product" nicotine can be had from other sources and just how much percent does the nicotine make up of the liquid? Is nicotine gum,patches and lozenges considered tobacco products?

Might have to let the Supreme Court decide that at some point down the road.

Just saying

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I'm not sure I would classify it as a "tobacco product" nicotine can be had from other sources and just how much percent does the nicotine make up of the liquid? Is nicotine gum,patches and lozenges considered tobacco products?

Might have to let the Supreme Court decide that at some point down the road.

Just saying

If nicotine could be had from 'other sources' in any significant quantity, couldn't the tie with 'tobacco products' be broken?

 

[DerekUrban]

On the one hand, with the FDA out to get us Vapers flying under the radar as a whole does seem like a good plan.

On the other hand, I'm easily excitable about cool gadgets, and the sooner the world knows and uses E-cigs in mass, the sooner I don't have to stalk the mailman every other week for juice and gadgets - and will just be able to go the the store to pick up my supplies.

Screw the FDA, I want Vapes-R-Us.

 

[Diablo]

Just a quick Google search I found this on nicotine...


Where Does Nicotine Come From

 

[lildevil8200]

love the article diablo...who would have thought nicotine was present in tomatoes lol

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Just a quick Google search I found this on nicotine...


Where Does Nicotine Come From

Yes...reinforces that there appears to be no good quantity source of nicotine outside of tobacco. :-(

 

[Diablo]

Yes...reinforces that there appears to be no good quantity source of nicotine outside of tobacco. :-(

True but...

If it CAN be had from other sources then they cant call it a "tobacco product" but rather its a natural occurring alkaloid found in plants. Tobacco just seems to be the most cost effective way of getting it.

 

[leannebug]

True but...

If it CAN be had from other sources then they cant call it a "tobacco product" but rather its a natural occurring alkaloid found in plants. Tobacco just seems to be the most cost effective way of getting it.

The problem isn't that they CAN'T call it a tobacco product--- the problem is that they DO.




Sent from the beach

 

[Diablo]

The problem isn't that they CAN'T call it a tobacco product--- the problem is that they DO.

Exactly, that needs to change. Facts are facts, and unless we stand up and speak up about it, they are going to run all over us as if we are smokers and that's wrong. Once places like NY put a $50 dollar tax per 10 ml bottle the battle will have been lost.

 

[wdave]

The problem isn't that they CAN'T call it a tobacco product--- the problem is that they DO.




Sent from the beach

Exactly. Ecigs are officially ruled a tobacco product and will fall under the same rules and regulations. However, my understanding is that the ecig industry wants eciges to be ruled as tobacco products so they are no longer regulated by the FDA. The rulling is a win for the ecig industry.

Back on the point of my thread. Why would anyone promote ecigs if it means that ecigs will be on every regulatory agency's radar screen. If you promote ecigs, then you have become your own worst enemy.

Dave

 

[lolady]

I know it must be very frustrating to the people who want all the regulations, and especially those who would like the sale of e-cigarettes to be "banned," that it's hard to figure out how to word laws and regulations about nicotine or tobacco to make them applicable to e-cigarettes that don't contain nicotine or tobacco.

The obvious way to close the loophole is simply to expand the ban to include products that do not contain nicotine or any tobacco derivative, but some of the giant food processing corporations are bound to balk at that, as well as a number of other industries, who will argue that outlawing the consumption of all non-nicotine-containing products would result in a dramatic downturn in productivity, and increase in personnel costs, as workers would need to be replaced every few days...

 

[Diablo]

Exactly. Ecigs are officially ruled a tobacco product and will fall under the same rules and regulations. However, my understanding is that the ecig industry wants eciges to be ruled as tobacco products so they are no longer regulated by the FDA. The rulling is a win for the ecig industry.

Back on the point of my thread. Why would anyone promote ecigs if it means that ecigs will be on every regulatory agency's radar screen. If you promote ecigs, then you have become your own worst enemy.

Dave

The more people that are educated and made aware of what ecigs are and how they work the better it is for the industry vs. people that have no clue what it is and labeling it a smoking product and therefore regulated to that extent.

We cant hide it, some government agency is going to see it as a way to make money off of it. We can choose to do nothing or do something.