We need to banish the word E-cigarette

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Ebred

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As someone said recently about this, the cat is already out of the bag.... it can't be put back in. They've been e-cigs for 10 years, no way to change it now.

We should focus our energies on working with CASAA to fight the battles ahead with legislation and policies. :)

Then abandon hope and quit CASSA. And get used to emptying your wallet. The change needs to come from many fronts, including CASSA
 

RobinBanks

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calico21

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sonicdsl

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Then abandon hope and quit CASSA. And get used to emptying your wallet. The change needs to come from many fronts, including CASSA

Focusing energy on working with CASAA is not abandoning hope. There is no point beating this dead horse of changing the name of ecigs. It's done. Move on to something more productive, like helping the professionals at CASAA to fight bans and other negative legislation.

mVISUON.gif
 

Ebred

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Focusing energy on working with CASAA is not abandoning hope. There is no point beating this dead horse of changing the name of ecigs. It's done. Move on to something more productive, like helping the professionals at CASAA to fight bans and other negative legislation.

mVISUON.gif

I understand what CASSA does. I was being cynical of a previous post.
Sometimes a dead horse is beaten for a reason:It was simply playing possum with someone that felt bad for killing it. Not me! :)
 
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LadyPharaoh

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Ebred

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Just so you know. If cigarette were not associated with vaping; CASSAs job would be much easier. Sheeple see ecig and say: we need this banned. And politicians being politicians say youre right. You do know many people believe that vaping has something to do with smoking, tar, BTEx compounds and the sort.

Ask yourself what is the true root cause of all legal action against vaping. Let me know if you don't come up with cigarettes and I shall do my duty to convince you.
 

JulesXsmokr

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that's exactly how I see it also.
seems half the folks in this thread alone, have changed (from smoking to non-smoking) and now won't consider helping to make more change happen.
I agree, we as individuals, along with our friends at CASAA need to synonymously distance vaping from the C word, and the S word.
There are all kinds of positive fronts for this newish product.
Hope you get what I mean, I'm not settling for what we have now.
 

sonicdsl

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Found the post that crossed my mind some moments ago, from one of my esteemed fellow moderators who is quite versed in this topic (and quite frankly one of the smartest persons I've had the pleasure to know), and many other things related to ecigs:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ce-renaming-wonderful-forum.html#post10511140

Also, we could call ecigs 'Recreational Steam Delivery Devices' or 'Personal Vapor Inhalators' or anything else, and then rename the forum to the same thing, and it would not stop the antis one micro-millimeter. They have to stop us because their jobs and their huge incomes go down the pan if/when ecigs take over: pharma stands to lose around $50 billion a year and up*, and most of the jobs in tobacco control will go**.

In addition, hardly any smokers who want to switch will be able to find us. In fact, it is likely that if we had called ecigs something else right from the beginning, we'd only have about 10% of our current numbers.

So, all in all, a rename of either ecigs or the forum is not going to help, and would actually be a significant negative. Sorry :) -- but thanks for thinking about these issues anyway. Please join your national consumer association, donate to them if you can, attend an online meeting, and ask if there is anything you can do to help.



* Because they have a huge income from treatment drugs for sick smokers, such as chemotherapy drugs, cardiac drugs, COPD drugs and the rest; plus a significant boost to many other drug sales such as diabetes, cholesterol and blood pressure drugs, all of which get a massive boost from smoking (a 1PAD smoker is 60% more likely to have diabetes than a non-smoker).

** Because when THR products are widely used, smoking prevalence all but disappears: Sweden allows unhindered access to Snus and people know that it is far safer than smoking; as a result, by about 2016 Sweden's male smoking prevalence will be 5%, and they have a realistic prospect of smoking becoming so unpopular there that disease and death will all but disappear (as Snus has no identifiable impact on health, and the health outcomes for smokers who switch to Snus are about the same as for smokers who quit totally). Not much use for tobacco control there :)
 

calico21

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sonic don't take this personally. I appreciate all the mods do, but I will not lay down! If by my excitement I get others to think about what they call it, if I get 1 person to join in the fight, if I get 1 person to educate 1 other then someday maybe we together will save lives. I will not go quietly into the night! {MODERATED}
 
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patkin

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I used to call mine a PV and got tired of explaining that... answering "isn't it an ecig?." Now I call it my pacifier. So far, people get that best and I think they do because its true and pretty much says it all. So far, people don't go further with that usual question. Only at home, with my family, I call it my peacifier on occasion. I doubt I'll ever walk into a store and see a case full of "Adult Pacifiers" (APs) though.;)
 
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mkbilbo

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You are expecting to fix an insurmountable problem by applying a name change and thinking that somehow will erase any correlation between vaping and smoking. Those connections were made years ago and changing the label from "e-cig" to "happy pumpkin" won't fix anything. The people who don't want to acknowledge there is any difference will say "people are smoking happy pumkpins to replace cigarettes" anyway. You cannot simply erase the connections between smoking and vaping by calling it something else. No matter what new label you may want to put on it, the majority of us only arrived here because we were smoking to begin with. E-cigs didn't pop out of a Magic hat to replace... nothing at all. Quite the opposite. As long as you inhale "it", "it" looks like smoking, and you use "it" to replace smoking, calling "it" anything else won't matter.

This isn't the first time this topic has been around the block. It is what is is. Education and awareness is what is needed. A name change would only fall in the realm of a marketing gimmick. After they started selling the Ford Edsel, calling it something else wouldn't have changed anything. Too little, too late for a product rename to matter now. Deeming proposals are all of a month away.

I have to agree and disagree.

(Also, I've been threatened with a court ordered disclaimer to be stapled to me to warn people that prior to the Series Of Unfortunate Events I was busting rear to shift gears in that "career path" thing into anthropological linguistics and am known not just for increasingly obscure puns but enjoy splitting hairs down to the quantum level at which point they are, then, both split and not split and the cat is very annoyed. So I feel I should warn people that four out of five mental health professionals agree you should immediately pull your Emergency Thread Ejection lever should Mark show up in any discussion about language, syntax, and especially semantics. I do not know what the fifth would have recommended because all we got was a gasp when he saw my name and a fading shriek of panic as he fled the building.)

In all seriousness, no, I couldn't agree it would be mere gimmick. "Electronic cigarette" is unfortunate for linking something that is simply not a "cigarette" to cigarettes. Inevitably implying to many that all the harmful elements have simply been repacked into some new form that uses a battery. I can absolutely guarantee you that were you to do two proper surveys using different terminology to describe the exact same thing (that is, the systems that use vapor to deliver nicotine regardless of the particular configuration), you would see a wide variation in the attitudes among the public toward the devices.

You could do the same thing with all other NRT materials. And I must go back and find the person who I got this from so I can credit them because it ain't original with me but it's so good I had to swipe it but, anyway, along the way (maybe not even here on ECF) I read a quip that if PVs are "electronic cigarettes" then nicotine gums are "chewable cigarettes". Which neatly and, I think, amusingly sums it up.

We are basically talking nicotine delivery devices and methods. I suppose following the NRT lead of "nicotine gum", "nicotine inhaler", and such, you could say "nicotine vaporizers" (which actually sounds like an anti-smoking ray gun kind of thing... heh... maybe we could confuse some of the less quick ANTZ types... hee). But while--in general--I support the idea of a push back on terminology, I don't see how we could make it work. And definitely not quickly. Push backs on terms and words take a lot of time. They can work. Take a look at the history of the infamous "......". It's almost now totally owned by the African-American community. It's a word they can quite confidently say, "that's our word and you can't say it". Because, that's pretty much true. However, how many decades did that take? My entire lifespan at least? More? Or there's the push by other groups such as the gay community to "reclaim" words that have also worked over time. Such as the reclamation of the term "queer". Which has become a wholly different word just in my lifetime. But we're still talking a span of decades (I remember, in the 70s, it was a pejorative hurled about pretty casually, now it has a whole other meaning and is "owned" by the gay community to a great extent... weirdly enough, the word "gay" has slipped its leash entirely and gone retro... and, yes, I could go on quite a while on that one because watching that word shift in the speech community is absolutely fascinating to me but I'll not do that here as I recall being chased around by people with baseball bats may have been good cardio exercise, I would prefer using a treadmill instead).

Point being, it's a great idea in the abstract. But an effort of major proportions and with limited time and resources to push back the ANTZ/BP/BT assaults on vaping... whoo boy. Just imagine trying to rebuild the ECF. The "active member" count just passed 21,000 and that number has been moving at quite a clip. I've been checking it now and again out of curiosity. This place isn't so much "growing" as "erupting". 9.9 million posts and headed for 10. 152K registered users (I don't know what metric the software uses for "active" out of that number but no matter how you slice it, ECF is expanding at a tremendous pace). The domain name itself is "e-cigarette-forum". This very section is "General e-smoking discussion". I've done web work on a much, much, much smaller scale than the ECF is at. The thought of trying to re-engineer a place this big and this active gives me the willies. The very suggestion to the owner(s)/administrators/mods/etc. could probably lead to them waking up in the middle of the night screaming in terror. :)

That is I'm talking "inertia". We kind of got stuck with the term. Killing it would be a long term effort. Something maybe worth integrating into a general effort but not as a major component. Something woven into a general education effort that we need to do anyway. Also:

You are expecting to fix an insurmountable problem by applying a name change and thinking that somehow will erase any correlation between vaping and smoking. Those connections were made years ago and changing the label from "e-cig" to "happy pumpkin" won't fix anything. The people who don't want to acknowledge there is any difference will say "people are smoking happy pumkpins to replace cigarettes" anyway. You cannot simply erase the connections between smoking and vaping by calling it something else. No matter what new label you may want to put on it, the majority of us only arrived here because we were smoking to begin with. E-cigs didn't pop out of a Magic hat to replace... nothing at all. Quite the opposite. As long as you inhale "it", "it" looks like smoking, and you use "it" to replace smoking, calling "it" anything else won't matter.

Yeah. That.

The irony being I would bet with a high degree of confidence without even starting to do any digging that the term "e-cig" came about on as marketing. After all, who was the product aimed at? Smokers. The association was intentional. And emphasized. Down to the point of pretty decent imitation. Such as NJoy. I have to hand this much to them, I think they've come closest to date in replicating the smoking "experience".

Yesterday, at--ironically enough--the Walgreens, I spotted my old brand of cigs behind the counter. There was that old "pull". What I did was point to the NJoy and ask for one of those. :)

Worked. I, heh, enjoy the various flavors and options I have with my Twists and clearos and 99.99999% of the time, no longer think about smoking. Those rare moments now of... well... it's almost a nostalgic fondness (of all things), NJoys work. For me at least. They're so close to that old "feeling", they head off the rare temptation to "have a real one".

(They even irritate my throat like real cigs. :) )

But, yeah, the connotations are set. Were before most of us even got here (shoot, look how many "join dates" are 2013... I'm running around with the "ultra member" label and I haven't even been around ECF six months just yet and haven't made a year of not smoking at all--having been "dual use" for some months... but getting closer every day now).

You cannot simply erase the connections between smoking and vaping by calling it something else.

True. Also, would that actually be a good idea?

Flip this around the other way. The greatest resistance among the general public to smoking is not so much what the smoker does to themselves but, rather, the effects of smoking on those around the smoker. If you choose to harm yourself, most people generally think it's "your life" though they may consider your behavior idiotic.

(I know a guy who loves skydiving. I think that's an indication of a mental disorder. :D However, it doesn't, ahem, impact anybody else and it's his insan... erm... business. Not mine.)

My point here being more in the "reclaiming" territory. That is, emphasizing the harm reduction aspect is more important in gaining general public support. Whatever the "name" is. Such as people might frown on switching a nicotine addiction from cigarettes to nicotine gum but they would likely (I'd say very likely and in large numbers) approve from the standpoint that at least that method of acquiring nicotine does not pollute the air around them and their children.

(Something to use against the ANTZ who love to scream, "The! Children!" Vaping is the solution to that one. And the studies are rolling in to back that up. The vaper does not fill the air around them with harmful chemicals for others to inhale. One of my "push backs" of choice is: THINK OF THE CHILDREN! No, seriously, think about it. The more smokers we switch, the fewer non-smokers and definitely fewer children will be exposed to tobacco smoke. "Cessation" has failed. Insisting on that and only that as a "health" strategy is harmful to The! Children! because people who try "cessation" return to smoking at a rate often well into the 90 percentile range.)

So maybe the better opening is to associate the "e-cig" (or whatever terms) with reduction in harm to those around the "smoker".

I also think the ANTZ (among others) are aware that's their weakest point. And why they're so desperate to blur the line between "e-cig" and "cigarette". They're well aware our (that is, the US as that's where I live and who I gotta deal with) public generally doesn't care what you do to yourself. They may think, "Idiot". But, in general, don't believe in meddling unless they can be convinced the behavior affects them in some way.

The anti-smoking health movement (which has turned into something strange and not health related anymore) gained little traction before the dangers of "second hand" were nailed down and widely publicized. Then the sweeping anti-smoking movement really got rolling.

I have this disconnected, odd feeling I should summarize some point or other and wrap this up. However, I'm sick and I'm sure I'm rambling worse usual. Also, I see the three of you left at this point in the post have brought in crates of tomatoes. So I'm going to be running out the side door now...
 

spaceballsrules

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Unfortunately, the term ecig is here to stay. I try to refer to mine as a personal vaporizer, but no one knows what I am talking about, so I have to inevitably return to using "ecig." Heck, one person heard vaporizer and thought I was using for the ole {MODERATED}. There is just no winning.
 
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Ebred

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I have to agree and disagree.

(Also, I've been threatened with a court ordered disclaimer to be stapled to me to warn people that prior to the Series Of Unfortunate Events I was busting rear to shift gears in that "career path" thing into anthropological linguistics and am known not just for increasingly obscure puns but enjoy splitting hairs down to the quantum level at which point they are, then, both split and not split and the cat is very annoyed. So I feel I should warn people that four out of five mental health professionals agree you should immediately pull your Emergency Thread Ejection lever should Mark show up in any discussion about language, syntax, and especially semantics. I do not know what the fifth would have recommended because all we got was a gasp when he saw my name and a fading shriek of panic as he fled the building.)

In all seriousness, no, I couldn't agree it would be mere gimmick. "Electronic cigarette" is unfortunate for linking something that is simply not a "cigarette" to cigarettes. Inevitably implying to many that all the harmful elements have simply been repacked into some new form that uses a battery. I can absolutely guarantee you that were you to do two proper surveys using different terminology to describe the exact same thing (that is, the systems that use vapor to deliver nicotine regardless of the particular configuration), you would see a wide variation in the attitudes among the public toward the devices.

You could do the same thing with all other NRT materials. And I must go back and find the person who I got this from so I can credit them because it ain't original with me but it's so good I had to swipe it but, anyway, along the way (maybe not even here on ECF) I read a quip that if PVs are "electronic cigarettes" then nicotine gums are "chewable cigarettes". Which neatly and, I think, amusingly sums it up.

We are basically talking nicotine delivery devices and methods. I suppose following the NRT lead of "nicotine gum", "nicotine inhaler", and such, you could say "nicotine vaporizers" (which actually sounds like an anti-smoking ray gun kind of thing... heh... maybe we could confuse some of the less quick ANTZ types... hee). But while--in general--I support the idea of a push back on terminology, I don't see how we could make it work. And definitely not quickly. Push backs on terms and words take a lot of time. They can work. Take a look at the history of the infamous "......". It's almost now totally owned by the African-American community. It's a word they can quite confidently say, "that's our word and you can't say it". Because, that's pretty much true. However, how many decades did that take? My entire lifespan at least? More? Or there's the push by other groups such as the gay community to "reclaim" words that have also worked over time. Such as the reclamation of the term "queer". Which has become a wholly different word just in my lifetime. But we're still talking a span of decades (I remember, in the 70s, it was a pejorative hurled about pretty casually, now it has a whole other meaning and is "owned" by the gay community to a great extent... weirdly enough, the word "gay" has slipped its leash entirely and gone retro... and, yes, I could go on quite a while on that one because watching that word shift in the speech community is absolutely fascinating to me but I'll not do that here as I recall being chased around by people with baseball bats may have been good cardio exercise, I would prefer using a treadmill instead).

Point being, it's a great idea in the abstract. But an effort of major proportions and with limited time and resources to push back the ANTZ/BP/BT assaults on vaping... whoo boy. Just imagine trying to rebuild the ECF. The "active member" count just passed 21,000 and that number has been moving at quite a clip. I've been checking it now and again out of curiosity. This place isn't so much "growing" as "erupting". 9.9 million posts and headed for 10. 152K registered users (I don't know what metric the software uses for "active" out of that number but no matter how you slice it, ECF is expanding at a tremendous pace). The domain name itself is "e-cigarette-forum". This very section is "General e-smoking discussion". I've done web work on a much, much, much smaller scale than the ECF is at. The thought of trying to re-engineer a place this big and this active gives me the willies. The very suggestion to the owner(s)/administrators/mods/etc. could probably lead to them waking up in the middle of the night screaming in terror. :)

That is I'm talking "inertia". We kind of got stuck with the term. Killing it would be a long term effort. Something maybe worth integrating into a general effort but not as a major component. Something woven into a general education effort that we need to do anyway. Also:



Yeah. That.

The irony being I would bet with a high degree of confidence without even starting to do any digging that the term "e-cig" came about on as marketing. After all, who was the product aimed at? Smokers. The association was intentional. And emphasized. Down to the point of pretty decent imitation. Such as NJoy. I have to hand this much to them, I think they've come closest to date in replicating the smoking "experience".

Yesterday, at--ironically enough--the Walgreens, I spotted my old brand of cigs behind the counter. There was that old "pull". What I did was point to the NJoy and ask for one of those. :)

Worked. I, heh, enjoy the various flavors and options I have with my Twists and clearos and 99.99999% of the time, no longer think about smoking. Those rare moments now of... well... it's almost a nostalgic fondness (of all things), NJoys work. For me at least. They're so close to that old "feeling", they head off the rare temptation to "have a real one".

(They even irritate my throat like real cigs. :) )

But, yeah, the connotations are set. Were before most of us even got here (shoot, look how many "join dates" are 2013... I'm running around with the "ultra member" label and I haven't even been around ECF six months just yet and haven't made a year of not smoking at all--having been "dual use" for some months... but getting closer every day now).



True. Also, would that actually be a good idea?

Flip this around the other way. The greatest resistance among the general public to smoking is not so much what the smoker does to themselves but, rather, the effects of smoking on those around the smoker. If you choose to harm yourself, most people generally think it's "your life" though they may consider your behavior idiotic.

(I know a guy who loves skydiving. I think that's an indication of a mental disorder. :D However, it doesn't, ahem, impact anybody else and it's his insan... erm... business. Not mine.)

My point here being more in the "reclaiming" territory. That is, emphasizing the harm reduction aspect is more important in gaining general public support. Whatever the "name" is. Such as people might frown on switching a nicotine addiction from cigarettes to nicotine gum but they would likely (I'd say very likely and in large numbers) approve from the standpoint that at least that method of acquiring nicotine does not pollute the air around them and their children.

(Something to use against the ANTZ who love to scream, "The! Children!" Vaping is the solution to that one. And the studies are rolling in to back that up. The vaper does not fill the air around them with harmful chemicals for others to inhale. One of my "push backs" of choice is: THINK OF THE CHILDREN! No, seriously, think about it. The more smokers we switch, the fewer non-smokers and definitely fewer children will be exposed to tobacco smoke. "Cessation" has failed. Insisting on that and only that as a "health" strategy is harmful to The! Children! because people who try "cessation" return to smoking at a rate often well into the 90 percentile range.)

So maybe the better opening is to associate the "e-cig" (or whatever terms) with reduction in harm to those around the "smoker".

I also think the ANTZ (among others) are aware that's their weakest point. And why they're so desperate to blur the line between "e-cig" and "cigarette". They're well aware our (that is, the US as that's where I live and who I gotta deal with) public generally doesn't care what you do to yourself. They may think, "Idiot". But, in general, don't believe in meddling unless they can be convinced the behavior affects them in some way.

The anti-smoking health movement (which has turned into something strange and not health related anymore) gained little traction before the dangers of "second hand" were nailed down and widely publicized. Then the sweeping anti-smoking movement really got rolling.

I have this disconnected, odd feeling I should summarize some point or other and wrap this up. However, I'm sick and I'm sure I'm rambling worse usual. Also, I see the three of you left at this point in the post have brought in crates of tomatoes. So I'm going to be running out the side door now...

The above is all fair and well put. However, I tend to look at things as black and white as possible, so, regarding the principle of the matter: It just makes sense to call it exactly what it is and not what it isn't. there are man many people that have no idea what E-cig means. The quicker the "word" is changed the less people will associate them with cigarettes. That truly is my overall agenda. For the people that know vaping as an ecig, changing the name now will have no affect.
 
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