Why would hospitols ban ecigs?!?!?

[kristin]

edit: I would submit to kristin that the supposed insulated nature of this board is no excuse for engaging in discourse that you wouldn't necessarily do "publicly". It is a public messageboard, and if your enemies are as conniving as you say, I don't think it's a far stretch to imagine them browsing messageboards like this for ammunition, especially quotes from a member of a primary ecig advocacy org.

Oh, we know for a fact that they spy on these boards. That doesn't change my opinion one iota. In fact, having a place where it would be reasonable and understandable for people to be angry and honest, when they cannot do so elsewhere, does us a great service and the more people who see it the better. They may learn something. I know I did.

 

[Sa Da Tay]

This will be my last post on this subject as we're talking in circles now. But to restate my last post, I'm not advocating necessarily for "nice", just more intelligent ammunition that will get the public on our side without alienating them. I bring the following into the conversation merely as a relevant example, not at all to get into a political debate. I would consider myself a moderate liberal. When I see or hear people calling Obama a "nazi", I immediately turn off to whatever they have to say. But guess what: I had the same exact reaction when people were throwing the same labels at Bush, and I greatly disliked Bush. To me it signifies a basic lack of rationality and understanding of how problem-solving works. And I would expect a CASAA representative on this board to more skillfully funnel people's (understandable and justifiable) anger into more productive discourse and action.

 

[zapped]

I would consider myself a moderate liberal. .

Theres your problem right there.

 

[zoiDman]

This thread is about vaping in a hospital, not a bus stop. I'm just saying.

I hear you.

I thought the OP was asking "Why" would a Hospital Ban vaping? Not so much the Merits of Right versus Wrong or Good versus Evil.

 

[Theken]

They can ban whatever they like, unless there is a law against it that is posted it is not illegal. They will likely tell you "there is no smoking here" which is generally responded to with "thanks, I am not smoking though". 90% of the time it ends there and they walk away confused but, if they want to argue it, I will and have never been asked to leave anywhere. I am a nurse at a local hospital and vape all-day-long when not treating a patient as I feel that would be rude.

 

[kristin]

And I would expect a CASAA representative on this board to more skillfully funnel people's (understandable and justifiable) anger into more productive discourse and action.

And if you knew me, then you would know that normally I do just that. However, your initial and second posts objecting to the use of "nazi" seemed more to the idea that e-cigarette users have no business comparing themselves to the victims of the Holocaust and your theory that use of the word "shuts down the conversation" seemed a secondary point. I was initially only explaining how people could feel justified in using that analogy and then how the logic of what works for most advocates for certain policies just hasn't worked for tobacco harm reduction. I don't see that I have, in any way, encouraged members to go out and publicly call ANTZ names. In fact, we are frequently discouraging it. When a speaker at the recent FDA hearings used the term "nazis" we (the CASAA board) collectively cringed. But that wasn't the point of my posts here.

 

[Sa Da Tay]

Theres your problem right there.

Ok this is my last post I'm immediately regretting using that example because it did open an entire Pandora's box that could be used against me to sidetrack the issue at hand, but whatever. I just wanted to point out that even if I share the same basic values and positions as someone, the minute they start espousing what I consider irrational points, I immediately turn off. I think a lot, if not the majority of Americans are the same way.

 

[DC2]

Let me ask you this. How is it working out for you being nice, polite and politically correct.

Has being diplomatic ever worked anywhere against any form of tyranny?
Being diplomatic may be helpful in gaining public support, but at some point you have to throw the tea in the harbor.

I hear you.

I thought the OP was asking "Why" would a Hospital Ban vaping? Not so much the Merits of Right versus Wrong or Good versus Evil.

This is a debate that has been a long time coming.
Why not here, and why not now?



And to Sa Da Tay, let me just say this...

You only have a handful of posts, but I know your name.
I have seen a lot of your posts, and respected all of them as far as I can remember.

And I respect your viewpoint here as well, and I'm glad you had the guts to open this debate.

 

[kristin]

CASAA recommends vapers respect the rules set by private businesses. While it can't hurt to try, the general rule of thumb is "their house, their rules." You wouldn't ignore or be rude to a friend who asks you not to vape in their car or home, so we should respect the property rights of bars, restaurants, stores, hospitals, etc. That doesn't mean you shouldn't attempt to educate them and maybe even make the extra effort to get the rules changed through polite discussion with those who actually have the power to change the rules. (Meaning, don't be a jerk to the poor nurse or server who doesn't make the rules.)

As to the OP's question as to why hospitals are banning e-cigarettes, it's because the ANTZ groups have been lobbying them heavily and many get funding from anti-smoking organizations. They are closely tied with the pharmaceutical industry, as well, and many hospitals are also educational facilities that rely on funding. There is no real logic behind it and definitely no scientific basis for it. Hospitals and colleges are also banning ANY kind of tobacco use on their campuses, even though smoke-free tobacco (snus, chew, lozenges) is obviously not a harm to bystanders in any possible way. It's a knee-jerk policy without any evidence. All we can do is hope that once more research comes out showing that e-cigarettes are a viable alternative, these bans will be lifted. Unfortunately, the more the bans are put in place, the less people will use e-cigarettes instead of smoking and the less motivation there will be to actually do the demanded studies. It's a catch 22.

 

[charmed412]

Just got home from a small 7 hour ER visit (transfusion) and I asked politely if they minded if I vaped in the privacy of my small self contained room. They had no issue with it but they know me well I would never openly vape in the hospital unless it was a completely closed private space and if I asked first and was given permission. But that goes for me any place. I do not vape in theaters or restaurants or stores. I can go a few hours without vaping. As a general rule, I don't vape where I can't smoke but in a stressful situation like this morning, I do find I want to vape. I stealth vaped in the hospital when my granddaughter was born and I vape in my private room whenever I have a hospital stay. But I also don't fill my room with clouds of vapor. I can vape without be obnoxious about it.

 

[fwellers]

Ok this I just wanted to point out that even if I share the same basic values and positions as someone, the minute they start espousing what I consider irrational points, I immediately turn off. I think a lot, if not the majority of Americans are the same way.

Yea, I also will turn off when I hear the same old thing over and over again, for good example the political debates leading up to this past election. But that's because it's become painfully obvious that those commercials and posturing are not interested in truth at all. We've heard it all a thousand times.
This is different. If someone tells me that Big Pharm act like a bunch of Nazis and then proceeds to outline why, I would NOT through out their opinion because they used an explosive term.

Really, this is a growing peeve of mine, but everybody doesn't have to be so darn luke warm, afraid to offend and afraid of using any color in their language. Give people credit. People can smell bull.... pretty well regardless of how it's displayed.

 

[Indagroove]

If I am ever in the hospital, I will vape. The gum and patches will not work for me they really mess with my anxiety. Not sure why, they just do.

If the hospital has rules against it, I will break them. I was in high school once, I know how to do this

As far as I can read, I have the right to pursuit happiness. If that involves breaking a few rules then so be it. Do not even tell me you have never gone past the speed limit, that COULD actually kill someone.

 

[nchamber68]

+1

It's not about treating us like smokers. They view us the same anyhow: nicotine-addicts puffing out something into the air that MIGHT hurt them, that has no evidence of harming bystanders, but it definitely "annoys" them nonetheless and "threatens the children." Keep in mind that there is very limited and questionable "evidence" to support that brief exposure to second-hand smoke causes any disease or death to bystanders and absolutely NO evidence that smoke-free tobacco causes harm to anyone (especially bystanders to smoke-free tobacco use; ) yet the ANTZ have managed to get even smoke-free tobacco use banned along with smoking OUTDOORS in some places.

So, it's really about not treating us like ignorant, uneducated, uninformed, gullible, "bad" children AS they've treated smokers. (The distinction being that smokers don't even deserve being treated like smokers, because ANTZ policy has nothing to do with science or health.)

(Just my personal opinion.)

I fully agree with your post.

I really hate it when people buy into all the psuedo-science they are being fed.

There is no such thing as a scientific fact, there are only scientific hypotheses, which become scientific theories, which are then deemed valid solely because they have yet to be proven false. There is no scientific proof that even long-term intense exposure to first/second hand smoke causes any disease.

The scientific theory that cigarette smoke (first or second hand) causes disease has already been disproven repeatedly. There are many people who have smoked heavily for 80+ years and never developed any so-called 'smoking related' health problems throughout their lives. The fact that the scientific theory does not hold true in all instances disproves the theory...or makes it a scientific falsity. So, scientifically, smoking does not cause cancer, or any other health issue.

Smoking, along with a very large variety of other factors, may be a contributing factor in the development of disease for those who are already genetically predisposed to developing the condition/problem in question. However, without the genetic predisposition, smoking is not a problem.

While I would never try this now: Two days into a stay at a hospital with a strict no smoking policy 23 years ago I told the staff they had two options, in ten minutes I was either going to the parking lot to smoke or I would smoke in my room; they said I couldn't do either one, I responded with 'just try to stop me'...three minutes later they brought me an ashtray and told me I was allowed to smoke in my room. I'm a little ashamed of myself when I think back on that now, because they were just trying to do their jobs, but there were a lot of factors involved (aside from just a nicotine fit) and at that point I was so desperate for a cigarette I would have happily fought my way out of the building if necessary.

I have been to the hospital a few times since, while I was still smoking, but I was never there for more than a day and I managed to wait until I was discharged to smoke. If I were admitted for longer than a day now I would most likely stealth vape because I wouldn't want to have to walk a quarter of a mile to the nearest smoking area right after surgery...and I know myself well enough to know that I would try. I seem to be a medical anomoly...when I don't take in nicotine my blood pressure goes insane (dangerously, bordering on an imminent heart attack, high) and takes me right along with it. BP medications don't help either, which is why I could never stop smoking analogs for very long before. Thirty days and counting analog free with normal BP levels!

 

[sherid]

If you have a better way that will prove results, then be our guest.

 

[manatee2474]

I was in the hospital for 2 days last fall and stealth vaped the whole time. I had my volt V2 with clearomizer sitting on my tray and I only had one staff member question me about it. The respiratory therapist and she wanted to know how it worked & if it actually helped because she wanted to buy one for her brother Have to admit that what really made me mad was the family from the other bed. They kept going outside to smoke and the smell was killing me. Never realized how bad I used to smell.

 

[fwellers]

The respiratory therapist and she wanted to know how it worked & if it actually helped because she wanted to buy one for her brother

Just more anecdotal proof that anyone who can understand it, will consider it a good way to replace cigarettes, and want it for their own loved ones. What better endorsement than that of a respiratory therapist ?
It's also more proof that rules and laws sold to us as "for our own good" or "for health reasons" are a lie, and not motivated by science at all.
Viva La Revolucion.

 

[zapped]

Really, this is a growing peeve of mine, but everybody doesn't have to be so darn luke warm, afraid to offend and afraid of using any color in their language. Give people credit. People can smell bull.... pretty well regardless of how it's displayed.

Youre not alone there fwellers.Terms like "politically correct" and "haters" are routinely used by people who really dont want you to have any opinion other than their own.

 

[KryssLe123]

I personally feel that, if a hospital asks me not to use my cell phone in certain areas (pretty much everywhere) and I can respect that, I can easily get over not being able to vape in a hospital. Like it's already been said, you can always sneak it just like people do with their phones.

 

[ClippinWings]

Vaping is a safER ALTERNATIVE to cigarettes, the safest thing is always to be inhaling nothing but good ol' clean air. Of course hospitals will encourage the most healthy.

That's funny because last time I checked Coca Cola was not the most healthy beverage, but I could get myself one at the hospital.

 

[fwellers]

I personally feel that, if a hospital asks me not to use my cell phone in certain areas (pretty much everywhere) and I can respect that, I can easily get over not being able to vape in a hospital. Like it's already been said, you can always sneak it just like people do with their phones.

I can understand the cell phone. There is a valid reason that makes sense to me.
People aren't dogs. We don't like to be told not to do things "Just because". We like reasons that make sense.