Will the same thing happen with Ecigs?

[Vapor Vinny]

States are attaching fees to hybrids to make up for lost gas tax revenues.

[URL]http://fuelfix.com/blog/2013/06/09/states-consider-fees-for-hybrids-to-recoup-loss-of-gasoline-taxes/
[/URL]
Personally, I think the same thing will happen with ecigs as it relates to tobacco tax revenue.

If you haven't figured it out already, your government sucks.

 

[Bill Godshall]

This post does not belong on this forum because it has nothing to do with e-cigarettes, except to fuel (pun intended) false conspiracy theories that all government is evil, and that government wants to tax e-cigarettes.

In fact, its drug industry funded anti tobacco groups who have been lobbying to impose huge taxes on e-cigarettes, while their liberal Democrat Senate allies (Durbin, Blumenthal, Harkin, etc) have introduced bills to impose huge taxes on e-cigarettes (as well as urging FDA to once again ban the products, which they refer to as regulation).

Falsely blaming all government for the actions of greedy private sector jerks and their misguided (and paid off) allies in Congress only makes it more difficult for us to keep e-cigarettes legal and accessible.

 

[wv2win]

This post does not belong on this forum because it has nothing to do with e-cigarettes, except to fuel (pun intended) false conspiracy theories all government is evil, and that all government wants to tax e-cigarettes.

In fact, its drug industry funded anti tobacco groups who have been lobbying to impose huge taxes on e-cigarettes, while liberal Democrat Senators (Durbin, Blumenthal, Harkin, etc) have introduced bills to impose huge taxes on e-cigarettes (as well as urging FDA to once again ban the products, which they refer to as regulation).

Falsely blaming all government for the actions of greedy private sector jerks and their misguided (and paid off) allies in Congress only makes it more difficult for us to keep e-cigarettes legal and accessible.

Excellent points, Bill. Although I believe it is corrupt, greedy and deceitful what Big Pharm and their little "puppet" groups like ASH, ALA, etc are doing to have vaping banned/severely restricted, I'm really incensed at the politicians, who are on the liberal side of the spectrum, and suppose to be protecting us, instead, trying to keep us smoking or using NRT products that have a dismal 93% failure rate.

There is not enough scorn that can be heaped on these dishonorable politicians. And there are too many on ECF who don't understand which politicians are aligned against vaping and which ones are at least willing to just leave us alone.

Thank you for reminding us of the political reality we are facing.

 

[DaveP]

Remember to split your vote between Democrat, Libertarian, or Republican where applicable based on the platforms if you want personal rights to be preserved. That's not a dig in the direction of Democrats, just a statement from observation. I actually like some of the center left philosophies. I just don't think any one party has all the right concepts down or an interpretation of constitutional precepts that match my own beliefs. I'll vote split ticket in a minute if given the right mix of candidates ... and I do that as much as I can each time I vote.

It's also important to review the voting records of candidates that you have the right to cast a vote for. Power to the people in the eyes of some politicians means only those powers they allow us to posses. After all, don't politicians have our best interests at heart (in their opinion)? Pick wisely.

 

[aikanae1]

All government is a tool for corporations. No party is excempt. It's always a choice between the lessor of the evils. A venture capitalist born with a silver spoon in their mouth and outspoken disdain for 80% of the population was not much of a choice. The third party can't keep their policies out of the bedroom. I'm almost more angry about not being given real choices.

It's sad about accepting 'sinful' taxes on a healthy product because one of the number one reason I hear for people interested in vaping is to save money. The cost for effective hardward is high enough, that coupled with taxes could potentially eliminate some smokers from quitting.

​

 

[DaveP]

All government is a tool for corporations. No party is excempt. It's always a choice between the lessor of the evils. A venture capitalist born with a silver spoon in their mouth and outspoken disdain for 80% of the population was not much of a choice. The third party can't keep their policies out of the bedroom. I'm almost more angry about not being given real choices.

It's sad about accepting 'sinful' taxes on a healthy product because one of the number one reason I hear for people interested in vaping is to save money. The cost for effective hardward is high enough, that coupled with taxes could potentially eliminate some smokers from quitting.

​

A certain amount of allowance for certain products is necessary to keep the populace content. I don't see cigarettes or ecigs being outlawed anytime soon. I do see federal taxes going into place at some time, especially if ecigs become the delivery system of choice for nicotine. No one wants a cancer causing agent entering our bodies, but the desire for nicotine seems to be greater than the threat of painful demise for some who continue to smoke tobacco.

Once change occurs, we will see taxes shifting and they're easier to collect if most of the product comes from corporations. I like the choice and selection from smaller vendors who carry various types of ecigs and accessories. I'm afraid that BT would give us a few choices that they prefer to manufacture. If BT doesn't carry quality VV mods and other fun products at fair prices, I won't be interested.

 

[aikanae1]

I think there is a big push to limit our choices - which is almost the same as a ban IMO.

 

[Petrodus]

States are attaching fees to hybrids to make up for lost gas tax revenues.

[URL]http://fuelfix.com/blog/2013/06/09/states-consider-fees-for-hybrids-to-recoup-loss-of-gasoline-taxes/
[/URL]
Personally, I think the same thing will happen with ecigs as it relates to tobacco tax revenue.

If you haven't figured it out already, your government sucks.

Actually ...
We have the best representatives money can buy.

 

[wv2win]

Remember to split your vote between Democrat, Libertarian, or Republican where applicable based on the platforms if you want personal rights to be preserved. That's not a dig in the direction of Democrats, just a statement from observation. I actually like some of the center left philosophies. I just don't think any one party has all the right concepts down or an interpretation of constitutional precepts that match my own beliefs. I'll vote split ticket in a minute if given the right mix of candidates ... and I do that as much as I can each time I vote.

It's also important to review the voting records of candidates that you have the right to cast a vote for. Power to the people in the eyes of some politicians means only those powers they allow us to posses. After all, don't politicians have our best interests at heart (in their opinion)? Pick wisely.

I'm an Independent and a moderate by nature. I vote by the individual's positions, also. Unfortunately, from a vaping perspective, it is only liberal politicians who are actively trying to have vaping banned or severely restricted. And this does tend to go to their overall philosophy that we need the heavy hand of the government to manage every aspect of our lives. I try to stay in the "center" on many issues. But politicians like this just keep pushing me farther to the right.

 

[aikanae1]

I'm an Independent and a moderate by nature. I vote by the individual's positions, also. Unfortunately, from a vaping perspective, it is only liberal politicians who are actively trying to have vaping banned or severely restricted. And this does tend to go to their overall philosophy that we need the heavy hand of the government to manage every aspect of our lives. I try to stay in the "center" on many issues. But politicians like this just keep pushing me farther to the right.

No it isn't. I've been watching for a political divide on this and there isn't one.

 

[wv2win]

No it isn't. I've been watching for a political divide on this and there isn't one.

If I understand your comment, you are saying that all politicians are against vaping. That is just not the case. And there are people who are experts in this field, who know much more than you or I, and have pointed out repeatidly who is calling for a stop to vaping and who is not.

I don't get the impression that you have inside knowledge, as the real experts do, on which politicians are wanting vaping to be banned or severely restricted. If you have political credentials and can prove otherwise, please share them with us.

 

[Petrodus]

I've asked this before ...
Anyone know of even 1 Congressman/woman or Senator
who has openly come out openly supporting e-smoking ??

 

[wv2win]

I've asked this before ...
Anyone know of even 1 Congressman/woman or Senator
who has openly come out openly supporting e-smoking ??

Yes, there was a Republican Congressman from I believe Michigan back in 2009 or 2010 who is a vaper and actually sent Obama a starter kit when he was trying to quit. I remember the story clearly but don't remember the Congressman's name. It would probably be hard to find now, but there were several threads about it on ECF. I also remember he got no reponse from Obama according to the story.

 

[Berylanna]

I've asked this before ...
Anyone know of even 1 Congressman/woman or Senator
who has openly come out openly supporting e-smoking ??

Yeah. Corbett. She says it all the time while she's trying to ban everything around it in a circle.

Morally, IMO, there is a difference between the gas tax thing and the ecig thing. The gas taxes are to pay for road use, and until hybrids they were at least somewhat proportional to road use (if you don't count the way the big rigs actually do the most roadbed damage.)

Hybrids still use the roads. Vapers are doing as much as smokers who quit smoking to AVOID using the hospitals. Not a parallel case.

I'd like to remind people that the votes for some of these things are published, and CASAA is asking people to ALSO give POSITIVE feedback to the politicians that get it right. That includes all Republicans and 2 Democrats in the California Senate. And there are other states where the splits are different than CA.

(Hmmm, I wonder if I should send thank-you letters to some prominent Republicans and bcc my Democratic rep who voted with Corbett?)

BTW, the other group that OWNS these folks is the media, so CASAA has also asked vapers to write letters to the editor of their local papers (just as a general strategy.) Let's get some heads into the sunlight.

 

[Petrodus]

Yes, there was a Republican Congressman from I believe Michigan back in 2009 or 2010 who is a vaper and actually sent Obama a starter kit when he was trying to quit. I remember the story clearly but don't remember the Congressman's name. It would probably be hard to find now, but there were several threads about it on ECF. I also remember he got no reponse from Obama according to the story.

Just did a search on the forum and found it was (now retired)
Republican Congressman Cliff Stearns from Florida ... Link

Soooo ....
Now we know of 1 "former" Congressman who supported e-smoking


Considering the atmosphere in Washington lately ...
I doubt any elected official will publicly come out in support
of e-smoking ... or even talk about it if he/she has a
Verizon cell phone.

 

[Stubby]

Just a reminder to folks that many Republicans voted for the family tobacco protection bill in both houses that gave the FDA control over tobacco products. The PACT act which has been a big negative for Swedish snus users was passed in the Senate by unanimous consent, meaning that not one senator spoke up against it. I'm not seeing the Republicans being the great champions of freedom when it comes to tobacco and nicotine. There are a few individuals here that are pushing an agenda that goes well beyond the reality of what is going on, and that is unfortunate.

On a federal level there is essentially no one who supports THR. A number of democrats are among the people who are actively working against THR, but this appears to be a case of ignorance not vindictiveness (not that ignorance is an excuse), but I'm not seeing any real intelligence from the other side on tobacco issues.

It's our job to educate the public about THR, and that means everyone.

 

[wv2win]

Just a reminder to folks that many Republicans voted for the family tobacco protection bill in both houses that gave the FDA control over tobacco products. The PACT act which has been a big negative for Swedish snus users was passed in the Senate by unanimous consent, meaning that not one senator spoke up against it. I'm not seeing the Republicans being the great champions of freedom when it comes to tobacco and nicotine. There are a few individuals here that are pushing an agenda that goes well beyond the reality of what is going on, and that is unfortunate.

On a federal level there is essentially no one who supports THR. A number of democrats are among the people who are actively working against THR, but this appears to be a case of ignorance not vindictiveness (not that ignorance is an excuse), but I'm not seeing any real intelligence from the other side on tobacco issues.

It's our job to educate the public about THR, and that means everyone.

You are missing the point, one you actually made yourself!!!!!!!

There may be no Republican who is actively supporting vaping BUT there are liberal Democrats ACTIVELY trying to have vaping banned or severely restricted. We don't need any politician to actively support vaping but instead just leave it alone.

You implying that leaving us alone is the SAME as actively trying to ban vaping makes no sense. Which scenario do you think is better for vaping and for us: leaving it alone or actively trying to have it banned????

 

[DaveP]

Ecigs could easily be declared a safer alternative to smoking, but that would slowly put an end to tobacco settlement tax renewals. If they aren't killing folks, they can't be taxed for it. I'm still under the opinion that the FDA doesn't want to declare ecigs a safer alternative for that simple reason. Wait! That's would be a $25B revenue loss over 25 years! If you aren't increasing medical costs to the government, we can't fine you for that and use the money elsewhere.

I also think that tobacco companies see the handwriting on the wall. It's a smart argument to get out from under the future settlement renewal.

 

[DC2]

Yes, there was a Republican Congressman from I believe Michigan back in 2009 or 2010 who is a vaper and actually sent Obama a starter kit when he was trying to quit. I remember the story clearly but don't remember the Congressman's name. It would probably be hard to find now, but there were several threads about it on ECF. I also remember he got no reponse from Obama according to the story.

Senator Cliff Stearns.

I also remember reading that there are a few Congressman that vape.
I wish I could remember where I read that.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

States are attaching fees to hybrids to make up for lost gas tax revenues.

[URL]http://fuelfix.com/blog/2013/06/09/states-consider-fees-for-hybrids-to-recoup-loss-of-gasoline-taxes/
[/URL]
Personally, I think the same thing will happen with ecigs as it relates to tobacco tax revenue.

If you haven't figured it out already, your government sucks.

I respect your work Mr. Godshall, but I'm much closer to being correct than you are in assuming I am wrong. My scenario will happen. That's the sad truth.