Windows and Lungs

[2buildawall]

A couple of weeks ago, I was outside a bar vaping. An acquaintance was smoking. He told me his doctor told him that eliquid is toxic- that it was antifreeze.

In the meantime that doctor must write dozens or hundreds of scrips a month for various medications that contain a PG base - that nasty toxic compound that is antifreeze. I wonder if he's trying to kill his patients???

The medical profession is a sad state of affairs these days. At least some of them.

My doctor never said eliquid was toxic. He merely stated that there is not enough data or evidence to say one way or the other.

He said there will be soon enough and questioned my participation in reaching those conclusions. One thing he is not is a pill pusher which is a bummer at times when you really need it. It is still my choice and he could never argue with that. We have known each other far to long.

 

[sparkky1]

This only started after I got my first RDA and started fogging up my apartment with it at 60+ watts with 90% vg juice. Never had a film when using my old Kayfuns and subtank at 25 watts, 50/50 juice, and I never have a film on the windows in my van, where I only vape at low (less than 30) wattage with a subtank.

Took some pics but can't upload them atm because I can't find my cable. After 3 days, I can see the film, after 7 days it's so thick I can write messages in it with my finger. I just did so and then tasted the stuff on my finger. Tasted like slightly sweet nothingness.

I also notice the film on my refrigerator door, but strangely, the full length mirror in the bedroom where I do most of my vaping is unaffected, as is my monitor. The case of my computer that's in a perpetual on state only seems to collect a very light film (though the case is white and film is hard to see), but the black laptop that sits on my desk unused (in a cold state) most of the time gets a noticeable film after a couple of weeks. Something to do with heat/cold then...the weather is cold here now and heater is on a lot.

I'm not a scientist. I know zilch about the mechanics of condensation. Thanks for all the informative replies!

I didn't intend the thread to be a "Vaping is a health hazard" issue. I mean, I know how I feel now vs. when I smoked, and I wouldn't trade the health improvement for all the tea in China. I simply want to understand more clearly what's going on in my body in regards to vaping.

I don't really get what your asking or if your even asking a question, what I do get is that you've upgraded devices and are now using higher wattage which has increased the amount of vapor production and as result are coating your furniture / windows and your concern is,
"are the more massive plumes worse for you" than my 25 watt plumes ?

 

[crxess]

I would love to see the data backing this up so I can show it to my doctor who calls me a guinea pig! Can you please give me your source? Thanks in advance.

Logic without Science would prove this out.
If VG Coated the Lungs, Oxygen transfer would Stop<Be Blocked> and one would first pass out then Die.
I do believe Cloud Chasers have already proved VG does not Coat Lung tissue

Much of what people call coughing up Phlem is likely due to nasal Drip. Cooled droplets accumulating and sliding back down the sinus passage, collection along the Esophagus and Trachea and causing a Cough reaction.

I'm no doctor, but I have become very familiar with Esophageal issues.

 

[sonicbomb]

the full length mirror in the bedroom where I do most of my vaping

Is that like a 1 person cloud comp kind of deal?

 

[crxess]

VG 13 week study
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Link works

 

[dionysuskiss]

I think it's important to note that, while we inhale a lot of vg, we also exhale the mass majority of it. The windows can't do that. The film we see is what we expelled from our bodies. I don't think we retain all that much.

 

[Atchafalaya]

VG 13 week study
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Link works

Nice!

 

[AndriaD]

Logic without Science would prove this out.
If VG Coated the Lungs, Oxygen transfer would Stop<Be Blocked> and one would first pass out then Die.
I do believe Cloud Chasers have already proved VG does not Coat Lung tissue

Much of what people call coughing up Phlem is likely due to nasal Drip. Cooled droplets accumulating and sliding back down the sinus passage, collection along the Esophagus and Trachea and causing a Cough reaction.

I'm no doctor, but I have become very familiar with Esophageal issues.

VG does leave something behind, because I can *feel* it in there; it feels like a hairball that I can't get rid of. If I keep vaping high levels of VG, then I get ungodly asthma attacks -- which means I can't breathe! I'm sure PG leaves something behind too, but it's thin enough that my lungs can deal with it and get rid of it before I feel it in there, and therefore causes me no breathing problems.

Andria

 

[NOVA jon]

Pretty sure everyone's ability to process vape ingredients varies widely!!

 

[crxess]

VG does leave something behind, because I can *feel* it in there; it feels like a hairball that I can't get rid of. If I keep vaping high levels of VG, then I get ungodly asthma attacks -- which means I can't breathe! I'm sure PG leaves something behind too, but it's thin enough that my lungs can deal with it and get rid of it before I feel it in there, and therefore causes me no breathing problems.

Andria

Define *Feel*
While I agree, for some, Vg may present an irritation as does PG for some, it is likely what is Felt is the Irritation, not a substance left behind. Both PG and VG have been laboratory tested under inhalation conditions and both are readily absorbed.
I know if I vape to much the Heavier VR mixes tend to put stress on my lungs. A few minutes of not vaping and Deep breathing clears it right up.

The Athsma is always there, the Heavier VG simply starts the flair up. That first itchy, scratchy, tingly feeling.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/sites/www.nhlbi.nih.gov/files/images_234

100% agree, if VG is an irritant or causes distress, reduce or do not use it. Same for PG users.

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
VG Study ^^^^ Link works

 

[Oregon Linda]

I definitely have a problem with too much VG, too. It gives me this horrible heaviness in my chest. I generally stay at 65% PG. The lowest I go is 50%.

ETA: And I don't have asthma or any other known respiratory problems (other than the fact of 30+ years of smoking).

 

[AndriaD]

I don't feel any irritation or scratchiness; I feel like I need to cough up, but nothing comes up, and I wheeze -- my airways are narrowed. I am not allergic to VG; I can apply it to my person, I can ingest it, and have zero issues. But because of my asthma, I am *very* familiar with the sensation of needing to cough up; I have to do it all the time, even though I no longer smoke, to keep from wheezing, and I am very practiced at the "productive cough" -- but with more than 15% VG, even the regular coughing-up I do will not clear that sensation from my lungs.

It's like paint: if the paint is thin, it makes a thin coating, and dries quickly. If the paint is thick, it makes a thick coating, and takes a long time to dry. Since it's not paint, it's a coating on the walls of the airways, what the thicker coating means is that my lungs can't clear it away fast enough to prevent me from feeling it, and it *does* narrow the airways because of the thick coating. When I tried thinning it with distilled water, it helped to some extent, but it made the vape pop and sizzle very unpleasantly, so I gave up that idea and went back to high PG.

Andria

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Do you run a vape shop out of your apartment? I vape in my apartment and car and don't get any vape condensation there.

 

[HauntedMyst]

Do you run a vape shop out of your apartment? I vape in my apartment and car and don't get any vape condensation there.

Weird, I get it all the time in my home office and my car.

 

[Atchafalaya]

I definitely have a problem with too much VG, too. It gives me this horrible heaviness in my chest. I generally stay at 65% PG. The lowest I go is 50%.

ETA: And I don't have asthma or any other known respiratory problems (other than the fact of 30+ years of smoking).

Same here. I do not have asthma either. Smoked 33 years (heavy). And the VG does give me heaviness in my chest. I have only been 4.5 months without a cigarette. Maybe my lungs are still cleaning out all that tar.

 

[DeAnna2112]

I have to agree with Andria on this from my own personal experience with VG. I have had asthma all my life and was diagnosed with COPD. It's like my lungs can not process the VG quick enough and it builds up in my lungs creating similar symptoms as Andria was describing. I thought her paint analogy was spot on in trying to describe what it fells like is happening. High VG makes me wheeze and cough due to constriction of airways...you deal with this kind of stuff when you have respiratory issues and come to recognize it when triggers are present. Inhaling high VG is just not a good choice for some people for reasons we don't completely understand and i am one of them. I am not allergic to it because i have no problems with it in other products but one thing is clear for me...it coats the lungs and restricts the airways for some people and the best answer i can come up with to explain it is our lungs can not process it quick enough before it becomes a problem.

 

[Atchafalaya]

I have to agree with Andria on this from my own personal experience with VG. I have had asthma all my life and was diagnosed with COPD. It's like my lungs can not process the VG quick enough and it builds up in my lungs creating similar symptoms as Andria was describing. I thought her paint analogy was spot on in trying to describe what it fells like is happening. High VG makes me wheeze and cough due to constriction of airways...you deal with this kind of stuff when you have respiratory issues and come to recognize it when triggers are present. Inhaling high VG is just not a good choice for some people for reasons we don't completely understand and i am one of them. I am not allergic to it because i have no problems with it in other products but one thing is clear for me...it coats the lungs and restricts the airways for some people and the best answer i can come up with to explain it is our lungs can not process it quick enough before it becomes a problem.

Makes perfect sense. Sometimes when I vape high vg I just hold it in my mouth a long time without inhaling. At least I get the flavor and absorb a little nic

 

[crxess]

Makes perfect sense. Sometimes when I vape high vg I just hold it in my mouth a long time without inhaling. At least I get the flavor and absorb a little nic

No doubt many of us are LONG Term Ex-Smokers and many of us will never get back full functional Lung capacity. Onset COPD may not have even been Diagnosed, damn I hate seeing Doctors, but it can still be there and will not go away.
Adding Asthma to the mix just increases problems by magnitudes.

For us, not doing anything that causes Breathing stress is advisable. This in no way Quantifies what is happening when doing those things.............I am no Doctor, Scientist, and cannot in all honesty make assumptions as to what is happening to cause the worsening.

It's like - is a good analogy. It gives substance to describing a feeling or concern.
It IS - is a False assertion of knowledge that something IS as proved BY XXX and can be misleading.
Example, and one Running Rogue on EFC -
I am Allergic to PG(not me personally) This has become a Norm and a Promotion for the use of High Vg/Max Vg and a typical recommendation by ECF users. It has come to be treated as Gospel, Mostly by a whole group of users that Have never been diagnosed(other than self) and cannot tell a Sensitivity From an Allergy.

Scratchy throat
Bumps, small blisters, small ulcers in the mouth
Dry Mouth
Are not in and of themselves an indication of an Allergy. They are not even a true indication of a Sensitivity in a new ex-smoker as all those conditions can manifest in a Body purging toxins and a person taking on a new experience(vaping)
But here, we have it - Gospel

It is simple, Preach what you know, but know what you Preach...........or at least try.

 

[sparkky1]

Makes perfect sense. Sometimes when I vape high vg I just hold it in my mouth a long time without inhaling. At least I get the flavor and absorb a little nic

Why not just pour it in your coffee ?

 

[Atchafalaya]

Why not just pour it in your coffee ?

Oh I do that too. NOT. lol. BTW, I LOVE your avatar. My absolutely favorite "The Walking Dead" character.