I can't say that I agree that there are no deposits from the VG...in fact, I'm going to say that there is certain to be residue. I'll be working out a way to cook it off and get conclusive results within the next couple of days.
wire wool?
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Just wanted to chime in and say that I understand what kinabaloo is getting at. I also think it's worth exploring further. However, I think it's out of the scope of what can be done here. To know and understand exactly what gases the "smell" is producing would require extensive lab testing with the ability to separate, ascertain and measure the different chemical properties before, during and after the deposit process. Complicated and very scientific stuff to say the least.
With that said, I agree with Sun and Terraphon that the best path here is prevention through proper maintenance via a method that works. Finding the culprit of the buildup helps us get there. That is something we can do.
That doesn't mean that we as the end users shouldn't lobby suppliers and manufacturers for certified testing via reputable laboratories. The more legitimate and authoritative testing of this "new delivery system" has under its belt the better it can defend itself against certain government agencies that might seek to bring it down. In this regard the system has to defend itself, not the people.
I'd also like to extend a big Thank You to Terraphon and others for taking the time to do these tests and reporting back the results. It is this passion and determination, as with all the pioneers of nic-juice vaping, that will ultimately make it a success.
With that said, I agree with Sun and Terraphon that the best path here is prevention through proper maintenance via a method that works. Finding the culprit of the buildup helps us get there. That is something we can do.
That doesn't mean that we as the end users shouldn't lobby suppliers and manufacturers for certified testing via reputable laboratories. The more legitimate and authoritative testing of this "new delivery system" has under its belt the better it can defend itself against certain government agencies that might seek to bring it down. In this regard the system has to defend itself, not the people.
I'd also like to extend a big Thank You to Terraphon and others for taking the time to do these tests and reporting back the results. It is this passion and determination, as with all the pioneers of nic-juice vaping, that will ultimately make it a success.
Nice work & deductions Terraphon, also good points from sun & kinabaloo.
It's all a bit empirical, but good info nontheless.
Got a few questions about conclusions being drawn here, don't have time
atm (work beckons), but I've got a few comments to make later.
But on the basis of this,
& from general personal observations on the way my lungs feel 'restricted'
after getting a lungful of bad atomizer vape
& from use of bad-tasting ones:
I am stopping using all my 9 VG cut flavour-test liquid,
= 30 ml of 36mg TW liquid down the drain
It's all a bit empirical, but good info nontheless.
Got a few questions about conclusions being drawn here, don't have time
atm (work beckons), but I've got a few comments to make later.
But on the basis of this,
& from general personal observations on the way my lungs feel 'restricted'
after getting a lungful of bad atomizer vape
& from use of bad-tasting ones:
I am stopping using all my 9 VG cut flavour-test liquid,
= 30 ml of 36mg TW liquid down the drain
Hey guys, if some of the carbon material 'is' caramel then Hydrogen peroxide is usually pretty good for dissolving that but it doesn't seem to affect it.
And I really need to understand why the 'carbon' is forming into 'lumpy' bits on the coil, instead of being a nice even coating.
And whilst it is generally accepted that it cannot be cart material, I still want to find a good alternative to the cart material so that I can be 100% sure of that.
And I really need to understand why the 'carbon' is forming into 'lumpy' bits on the coil, instead of being a nice even coating.
And whilst it is generally accepted that it cannot be cart material, I still want to find a good alternative to the cart material so that I can be 100% sure of that.
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I want to say to everyone ......DO NOT USE WIRE WOOL.....after looking at it under a powerful magnifying glass, tiny bits of the wire do tend to break off and it would be very bad to inhale those.
Pete, if you look closely at the first two spoons, Ecig and SuperSmoker eliquid, you'll see that the residue isn't distributed evenly. The last one, Johnson Creek is uneven and lumpy looking.
http://www.e-cigtest.com/showthread.php?t=8
http://www.e-cigtest.com/showthread.php?t=8
Hey there good morning to you kate.....yes I do see there are some lumpy bits in the spoons but what I think is different about doing it in the spoons is that the juice has basically been 'boiled' away. I know everyone would say that the atomizer coil is only doing exactly the same thing but in my mind it isn't.... it should be getting soaked with sort of mist of juice that is vaporized on contact......lol ...it's the way it goes 'lumpy' that is still the bit I can't seem to understand......but bear with me ..I will get there in the end.
The wire mesh I'm using from an old atomizer doesn't seem to be flaking apart at all. I seems to be the answer to the wicking problems I have always had with my e-cigar. I will keep a closer eye on it to see if it starts falling apart.
with the greatest of respect pete you are simply wrong about the mist.. this goes back to original misinformation about how the vapour is produced and even the term "atomizer" itself..
there is no mist the whole lot just gets soaked in neat e liquid.. it then gets boiled just like in the spoon..
these things were originally marketed as more high tech then they really are.."a fine mist is formed in the atomizer chamber" type stuff.. hence the high tech term "atomizer"...
before you can effectively theorize you have to get the basic premise right.. if you dont all your theories will have no validity..
if there is such a thing as an e smoking expert i recon i could claim to be one.. atomizers due to their design wear out pretty quickly.. every trick in the book has been tried by many people to make them live longer.. none of the tricks has achieved anything other than a short reprieve from the inevitable death senctance..
this place is like a school with ten professors and a thousand students.. the professors opinion is given no more credibility than the students.. every bodies opinion has equal value.. everybody maintains the right to state their opinion..
and to make matters worse the professors aint even allowed to say they are.. they have to remain anonymous..
this aint accidental.. it could be put right with some well placed stickies and decent FAQs.. but the reason it isnt is because its simply here to put bums on seats and sell products.. its an entertaining place to visit.. which is what its intended to be..
a shame really cos all the information in the world is out there.. but those who do know learned to shut the f-ck up long ago and leave the rest to it..
trog
ps.. the other thing that needs to be said is.. an atomizer acts very like a kettle.. it distills things.. the steam that comes out of the kettle is free from solids.. these all get left behind in the kettle..
an atomizer does something similar.. all the solids get left behind in the atomizer.. just like they do in the kettle.. you wont be breathing in sold lumps of anything..
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Trog - I have read that a mist of droplets is created by the air flow - when we drag it pulls tiny droplets from the mesh cup past the atomiser coil. This is enhanced by the narrowness of the path at that point, speeding up the flow. Are you saying that this is not the case?
Secondly: naturally solids are left behind. I am less concerned about the detrimental effect on atomiser life than on the dregradation of the deposits as they burn down to carbon. However, this deposit-burning occurs as part of the normal operation and it seems from the tests done so far that there is no significant toxin levels produced (but more testing would be wise). The 'bad smell' issue as the juice runs out is another issue i will leave aside for now. Nevertheless, it makes sense to ascertain how juices can be formulated to leave less residue. The pictures that Kate showed illustrate how formulations can have widely different deposit profiles, and that under normal circumstances VG does not burn/degrade.
Secondly: naturally solids are left behind. I am less concerned about the detrimental effect on atomiser life than on the dregradation of the deposits as they burn down to carbon. However, this deposit-burning occurs as part of the normal operation and it seems from the tests done so far that there is no significant toxin levels produced (but more testing would be wise). The 'bad smell' issue as the juice runs out is another issue i will leave aside for now. Nevertheless, it makes sense to ascertain how juices can be formulated to leave less residue. The pictures that Kate showed illustrate how formulations can have widely different deposit profiles, and that under normal circumstances VG does not burn/degrade.
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It's the deposits that bother me as well......I have found that as the deposits build up on the coil I need to puff in a way that makes the coil get much hotter in order to get any vapour and when I do that I can tell I am not just inhaling vapour....some of it is 'smoke' and although it may not be anything to do with the cart material........... it certainly has a burning plastic like taste to it. ........I am hoping we can find something that really does completely clean and remove all that residue...... To me the ideal thing would be if atomizer's were cheap enough to replace every day or two!
you highlight the forum problem.. "i have read".. which was no doubt is simply a pass on or copy and paste from the original false information.
the term "atomizer" is based on false information.. high tech sales talk
read something.. pass it on.. the way the internet works.. sadly 90% of whats written is wrong.. but if it sounds "good" its accepted as fact and becomes "Fact"
the e cig scene is loaded with false information..
air flow into an e cig start off from a very small hole.. with a 901 its in the side of the atomizer.. it then finds it way thru the very wet wire wool and into the little heater pot thru holes in it.. it wets the little coil.. the little coil heats up and boils the liquid..
the cart wool just keeps the wire wool nice and wet.. or at least it should do.. sadly half the time it dosnt which is why direct dripping works the best..
the rest is high tech sales bullsh-t..
trog
Trog - you are not refuting the mist; sounds like we are saying the same thing.
For the juice to get from the mesh to the coil, small droplets are pulled from the mesh by the airflow (the 'mist'). How else can it get there?
For the juice to get from the mesh to the coil, small droplets are pulled from the mesh by the airflow (the 'mist'). How else can it get there?
In regards to the VG, I read somewhere it turns into acetone at 280C, I would think the flame from a lighter would easily exceed that. Shouldn't these tests be done at the same operating temperature as our devices?
I agree atomizer is not a good term to call the part, even the nozzles on hair spray are called an atomizer, these produce tiny droplets, each of which are comprised of millions on molecules. An atomizer in the true sense of the root of the word would be ripping apart molecules and blowing out individual atoms. Hairspray nozzles should be called misters, and the device used with e-cigs are vapourizers. When I've been describing them to others, I just call it a heating element.
Anyhow, I'm still going to try to see how stainless-steel faucet aerator screens retain and wick fluid. I just hope a hardware store would carry the screens on their own and not the whole faucet aerator nozzle. I have to get myself to a hardware store first...
I agree atomizer is not a good term to call the part, even the nozzles on hair spray are called an atomizer, these produce tiny droplets, each of which are comprised of millions on molecules. An atomizer in the true sense of the root of the word would be ripping apart molecules and blowing out individual atoms. Hairspray nozzles should be called misters, and the device used with e-cigs are vapourizers. When I've been describing them to others, I just call it a heating element.
Anyhow, I'm still going to try to see how stainless-steel faucet aerator screens retain and wick fluid. I just hope a hardware store would carry the screens on their own and not the whole faucet aerator nozzle. I have to get myself to a hardware store first...
Lol thats it, thanks Kate! I wasn't 100% sure but had a hard time finding that thread with that info...but the spirit of my question remains the same.
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