Workplace bans smoking and vaping on property

Status
Not open for further replies.

Racehorse

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,230
28,254
USA midwest
I do find it humorous that all this talk about freedom ......and yet we are all unable to free ourselves of the vaping / smoking dependency, of "having" to vape w/out getting anxious.

IF indeed, as other topics have stated, that nicotine is not addictive, then it is certainly possible that we are "dependent" on vaping.

Because, if we aren't dependent----- then it should be absolutely no different than not being able to relax with a bowl of popcorn in front of the TV, or not knitting or playing guitar or video games for the better part of the day.....which most people are fully able to do, and it doesn't seem to cause them a lot of discomfort, anger, or pain?

If vaping is not an addiction, and it's not a dependency, then maybe it's a "hobby"? Yet, people forgo their "hobbies" every day, while at work, and I have just never seen them grousing that about their *rights* over it? :confused:

I guess I'm getting confused about what vaping is: recreational habit, hobby, addiction or dependency.......or a some kind of workplace *right* like being able to visit the bathroom or have a lunch break.....
 
Last edited:

bigdancehawk

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 27, 2010
1,462
5,477
Kansas City, Missouri
Actually, in many places, employers/property owners aren't legally allowed to dictate what is in your personal vehicle, regardless of if it's on their property or not. Your vehicle is considered an extension of your home (and there's legal precedent on the subject).

Now... could your company fire you for vaping in your car on their property, and get away with it? Hell yeah: they just don't state the reason for your dismissal. That doesn't change the legal standing

I'd be very curious to know specifically what those "many places" are, as well as the "legal precedent" you refer to.
 

Woofer

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 8, 2014
3,894
15,371
PA, SK, CA
No offense but the extent to which people feel they should be able to pursue whatever recreational behaviors while on the clock of their employers never ceases to amaze me. ;)

If somebody wants to snack, vape, make a lot of personal phone calls, take a lot of coffee breaks, or surf the web while working, maybe they should just stay home and figure out another way to earn a paycheck.

Many of us spent most of our professional work life in workplaces where smoking was not permitted. I certainly would not have considered giving up a good salary in a fulfilling career....... for a cigarette. Seems like that would be sorta a dumb decision. :lol:
<snip>

No offence but for me this doesn't address Rossum's point at all. There is a choice that you ignore, self employment. I could argue that not doing so "would be sorta a dumb decision."
 
I'd be very curious to know specifically what those "many places" are, as well as the "legal precedent" you refer to.

Florida for one. There was a big row when Disney World (which owns the surrounding area, town, police, and sherrif office) tried to make it illegal to keep a firearm in your personnal vehicle. Also you can carry anywhere in Florida that is not on the state "no carry" list. Signs do not matter and have no legal effect. Store has a "No Firearms" sign and they figure out you have one (bad on you), the most they can do is ask you to leave.

Louisiana treats your vehicle as an extension of your home. Other than a few locations (federal property of course, state hopitals, etc but no private property) anything within your car that you can legally own is considered on your property. If it is parked on someone elses property, they can ask you to move it off their property and you have to or you are trespassing. If someone like your boss makes you show him the gun he thinks you have in your trunk then he just conducted an illegal search under duress. Your boss can not prevent you from having anything you can legally own in your car and since it is your private property (even if parked in their lot) can not search it. Vaping in your car in Louisiana would be vaping on your private property.

Oh yea, Louisiana is an open carry state and has been for over 150 years. :laugh:


Employee contracts and EULA cannot override state and federal law. In fact, pretty much almost every EULA that has been brought to court has been thrown out. Employee contracts that try to overrule state or federal laws just open the company up to law suits. That being said, there are no state or federal laws giving you the right to vape.
 
Last edited:

Racehorse

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,230
28,254
USA midwest
No offence but for me this doesn't address Rossum's point at all. There is a choice that you ignore, self employment. I could argue that not doing so "would be sorta a dumb decision."

I felt no need to address his point (about self employment) because the topic is "workplace bans". In this case, those that extend to the entire workplace property.

Self employment is always an option if you don't wish to follow the rules of the workplace. That's a given, and so obvious that I didn't think it needed mentioning.

And, self employment may actually be a dumb decision. It depends on the business plan, the skillset and education of the individual, and the demand for their services and expertise. When you are self-generating a paycheck, you better have your act together.
 
Last edited:
Louisiana "Vehicle as extension of your home" has nothing to do with Castle Law. It predates Castle Law in Louisiana. Additionally it only effects firearms to the same extent as any other property you keep in your car.

On someone elses private property, they have no say on what you can or cannot have within your car. However, if your car is located on their private property they are perfectly within their rights to ask you to leave or remove your car from their property.
 

bigdancehawk

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 27, 2010
1,462
5,477
Kansas City, Missouri
Florida for one. There was a big row when Disney World (which owns the surrounding area, town, police, and sherrif office) tried to make it illegal to keep a firearm in your personnal vehicle. Also you can carry anywhere in Florida that is not on the state "no carry" list. Signs do not matter and have no legal effect. Store has a "No Firearms" sign and they figure out you have one (bad on you), the most they can do is ask you to leave.

Louisiana treats your vehicle as an extension of your home. Other than a few locations (federal property of course, state hopitals, etc but no private property) anything within your car that you can legally own is considered on your property. If it is parked on someone elses property, they can ask you to move it off their property and you have to or you are trespassing. If someone like your boss makes you show him the gun he thinks you have in your trunk then he just conducted an illegal search under duress. Your boss can not prevent you from having anything you can legally own in your car and since it is your private property (even if parked in their lot) can not search it. Vaping in your car in Louisiana would be vaping on your private property.

Oh yea, Louisiana is an open carry state and has been for over 150 years. :laugh:


Employee contracts and EULA cannot override state and federal law. In fact, pretty much almost every EULA that has been brought to court has been thrown out. Employee contracts that try to overrule state or federal laws just open the company up to law suits. That being said, there are no state or federal laws giving you the right to vape.

This thread is about employers prohibiting vaping. My post was in response to the notion that an employer can't legally prohibit employees from vaping in their cars on employer-owned property and specifically this statement: "Actually, in many places, employers/property owners aren't legally allowed to dictate what is in your personal vehicle, regardless of if it's on their property or not. Your vehicle is considered an extension of your home (and there's legal precedent on the subject)."

Florida has a law which prohibits employers from firing people for having a licensed gun "secured" in their car. Disney didn't try to make it "illegal" for people to keep firearms in their vehicles. Disney can't pass laws and, therefore, can't make anything illegal. Disney fired a security guard for having a gun in his car on Disney property. There is no legal precedent because the guard dropped his case before any judgment was rendered. Gun laws in Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again, Florida's and Louisiana's firearms laws don't extend to vaping and they are irrelevant to this discussion. An employer would be perfectly within its rights to fire an employee for vaping in his car or, for that matter, for reading Playboy magazine in his car, or for wearing yellow socks in his car, or for.....you get the idea.
 
Last edited:

Jman8

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jan 15, 2013
6,419
12,928
Wisconsin
Many of us spent most of our professional work life in workplaces where smoking was not permitted. I certainly would not have considered giving up a good salary in a fulfilling career....... for a cigarette. Seems like that would be sorta a dumb decision. :lol:

Are you over 25?

I imagine I'm younger than most on this forum, but old enough to have worked in major company in a downtown city that allowed smoking indoors when I was there. Not right at your desk, but was told by many others that this used to be allowed and not too long ago (then). I can still recall being a smoker and smoking indoors in a hospital when that was permitted. Now, I know of no such hospital where that is allowed.

There are various reasons why smoking is not allowed indoors, in work places. Near the top is that there is this belief that passive smoking will harm bystanders irreparably and thus no counter point, once this is accepted as fact, is plausible. Yet, any vaper paying attention to politics and deception knows that the passive smoking 'facts' are closer to junk science than hard core science. Thus, it is not fact that perceived harm from passive smoking is irreparable. So, the far more likely scenario that we are actually dealing with is that most people have been brainwashed to consider the perceived harm as irreparable and have that position entirely covered, they feel, by fact that they do consider it annoying/disturbing.

Yet, if the annoying factor was applied to other activities that occur in public where humans are gathered, then I honestly can't think of anything that would be allowed in a workplace other than your job. So, items like "how was your Christmas?" would be gone because this is not 'your' time and you are not getting paid to ask or answer that question. Annoying that you might think otherwise.

I guess it's okay if you have a job you don't care a lot about and can change jobs whenever something displeases you. Most people aren't in that position though.....and certainly aren't if they want to build any kind of real career where a solid work history is important or have to support themselves and their families.

IMO, the age of building a solid career at one company is gone. Might happen for a select few but of all people I know around my age, I currently know zero that have stuck with same company since they were in their early 20's. With my parents' generation, that seemed commonplace. Plus, this clearly goes two ways. Companies are very aware of job hopping. Obviously they'd love for people to stay with them, but they know reality is otherwise, and so at least 2 things occur because of what is rather common knowledge. 1 - They rely on what is a fine line but amounts to some workers are too lazy, stupid or otherwise unmotivated to job hunt while they have a job, regardless of how much that person actually loathes the job and may complain about it daily. And 2 - companies know they can pass policies much easier than in olden days where unions and general brotherhood with employees was more common. I reckon 40 years ago a policy in any company (includes hospitals) that said even if you are a smoker in your free time, we will not hire you, would've led to that company being out of business very soon. Today, as many think companies hold all the cards, that not only is considered, but it occurs. That would be one of the most extreme policies that currently exists that I can think of. Only other things I can think of that would be worse are unwritten rule of we won't hire some people because of their race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, etc. But all that has to be unwritten rule, so the 'must be a non-smoker' one is such that it blatantly crosses line of discrimination and in world we live in that doesn't get all that challenged. Suck it up buttercup. Stop smoking if you want this job. You're just lucky to have a job (where we get to treat you however the heck we want and too bad if you don't like that.)

Not vaping at work is really no different to me than not knitting, or practicing my guitar or taking a coffee break whenever you feel like a cup of coffee or a snack. That's why they call it work and you get paid to be there.

Also no different than you chit chatting at work. Really anything you do outside of what a drone would do if performing your same job is no different, so that's what we need in our work is more drones. Now only if we could cut their pay or freeze their wages, we'd be onto something. Man, what a great world we have.

Staying home doesn't pay well but it bestows a lot of personal freedom.

Not so sure. Kinda depends on which party is currently holding power and how callous are the working class about those who currently don't have employment for whatever reason.

Oh, and working from home is becoming more commonplace. I know of at least 2 people that work from home, with legit companies, and are earning enough to have nice residence in suburbs, with ability to pay for all needs (and many luxuries) of a family of 4. Easily earning more than either of my parents made annually. Getting to a point, rather quickly, that it is challenging to think of jobs where one absolutely needs to be at a company's place of business to do their job. 3D printing advances to 3rd or 4th generation capabilities and healthcare stuff gets revamped to work for everyone, and well, need for companies to have people on their premises to perform the job that a robot couldn't do just as well is about done. I can walk into a grocery store today, have 10 questions about products I'm interested in buying, and walk out of that store with 5 bags full of groceries, without once interacting with someone that worked at that store. Though, I'm the type that does prefer human contact, unless it is with worker that is visibly loathing the fact that they have to be there.
 

towelie

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 4, 2014
490
343
In a cloud
Employee contracts and EULA cannot override state and federal law.

Not so. Take California for example. Prop 215 is the compassionate use act. State law. Still any Equal Opportunity Employer in the state may fire a patient based on testing results even though in the hiring paperwork it states "does not discriminate based on race, orientation, medical conditions" ect ect...

Great example of how state statute trumps federal statutes however.
 

Rt1Rebel

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 28, 2014
249
573
Severna Park MD
My company relegated vaping into smoking this year. I can still do it, but have to go outside.

For the OP: go into the restroom, go into a stall, sit down, take a crap if you need to, and vape to your heart's content using a low odor eliquid, and don't blow out clouds. Nobody will ever call you out on it. Trust me.
 
Last edited:

Jman8

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jan 15, 2013
6,419
12,928
Wisconsin
For the OP: go into the restroom, go into a stall, sit down, take a crap if you need to, and vape to your heart's content using a low odor eliquid, and don't blow out clouds. Nobody will ever call you out on it. Trust me.

Dear OP: make sure after you sit down that you lower your underwear, or there will definitely be residual odor, and they will surely call you out on it.

Trust me.
 

LeftHandBlack

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 17, 2013
410
222
Brighton Co
Here in CO years back indoor smoking in public places was banned. The general manager at my job had an outdoor smoking covered patio built for smoking on. Had the manager not been a smoker himself I dont know if such measures would have been followed. 10 years or so have passed and He is gone but the policy still remains. Long story short the mindset of management is what dictates the policy and no smoking/vaping on the property is a statement that doesnt lend to an equal opportunity employer. To fight the policy will be an uphill battle. Quit vaping or find new job are your two choices.
 

beckdg

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
11,018
35,706
TN
I own the air in my establishment, so challenging that would only result in embarrassment of the challenger.

what do you charge for rent?

if i were your employee it would be on the terms that i get a fan in my window or i quit. then i'd pose (correctly) the fact that i'm using air that belongs to nobody (can't even be considered public since not even the gooberment owns it).

i know i'd be embarrassed in court as an employer arguing against said logic to suppress my employees.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread