Your consumption level defines the risk - discussion with Dr. Farsalinos

[DC2]

See edit above.

 

[pennysmalls]

I don't care if vaping 30ml's d2l a day is seen as more unhealthy as vaping 5 ml's m2l. If it turns out to be true then it turns out to be true but I'll be damned if I'm going to tell someone what they can or cannot do based on even proven scientific information. We need to get out of the mindset that something needs to be done about it, other than informing people of the facts.

 

[kbeam418]

I don't care if vaping 30ml's d2l a day is seen as more unhealthy as vaping 5 ml's m2l. If it turns out to be true then it turns out to be true but I'll be damned if I'm going to tell someone what they can or cannot do based on even proven scientific information. We need to get out of the mindset that something needs to be done about it, other than informing people of the facts.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I don't care about what studies say, I only care about what my body feels like. I vape dl and I vape mtl my body doesn't seem to care. My body DID care when I smoked two packs a day, I coughed for ten minutes straight in the shower and I noticed that I breathe better now.

 

[sofarsogood]

Dr. F's principle is valid. It's possible to drink too much. It's possible to eat too much. How much vaping is too much if there is too much? Regardless I try to minimize flavoiring and daily ml's. Reducing nic is not one of my goals unless it became necessary to preserve my stash. Nic has been around for a long time and seems to be self limiting and not noticably hazardous within those limits.

Dr. F seems most concerned about toxic chemicals so may be he knows how much those are reduced if flavoring is eliminated, because it can be eliminated or, as I do, reduced by an order of magnitude and still have noticable flavor. I do that for several reasons not related to safety but now I'm curious, how many of these suspicious chemicals are only there because of flavoring? Has anyone been analyzing unflavored vapor created by real world practices?

 

[Lessifer]

From polls like this I would assume...
How much eliquid do you use?
How Much Liquid Do You Use Per Day?

Back before competitive vaping was a thing.
And there was no "clouds bro" crap.

For anyone vaping to avoid smoking, raise the nicotine level and vape less.
Lowering the nicotine and vaping more is NOT a good idea.

This is a no-brainer.

For anyone vaping for any reason other than to avoid smoking...
I don't care what you do, as long as what you do doesn't ruin it for those trying to avoid smoking...

THE END


EDIT: My apologies.

When I was talking about avoiding smoking I was referring to people who are vaping because of a need for nicotine. But I also recognize that there are LOTS of people who need other things from vaping (besides nicotine) to avoid smoking. Like more vaper, or more flavor, or increased convenience, or ease of use, or more throat hit, or less throat hit, or lots and lots of hand-to-mouth.

So yeah, if you need more of (whatever) in order to avoid smoking...
Do it.

But still, the less vapor the better.
Well, probably the less flavoring the better.

But yeah.

Keep in mind that those polls are also from the days when carto tanks were the top of the line in vaping technology.

I have no personal dog in this fight. I vape less than 3ml a day, and vape primarily mouth only.

Remember when dry burning was one of the worst possible things you could do as a vaper? (not really directed at you DC)

 

[DC2]

Keep in mind that those polls are also from the days when carto tanks were the top of the line in vaping technology.

Yes indeed. That was kind of my point.

 

[Jim_ MDP]

Please provide some proof why vaping more in NOT a good idea.

Since the last battery of tests I had performed on my body seems to prove otherwise.

Proof.

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."




Between this and the "mouth/lung" aspect you latched onto (for some unknown reason)... are you just feeling argumentative? Not the worst thing in the world if so, I indulge in it occasionally myself.

This entire thread is opinion... there are no studies on this aspect yet, conclusive or otherwise.
And having taken a second look, I agree the title (and any corresponding statement in the OP) should not be declarative (I tend to ignore such titles)... it should be a question, not a statement.

We don't have your "proof".

 

[mcclintock]

I thought I saw a study -- bar graphs -- which showed more modern, high output devices produced less formaldehyde and other nasty chemicals. Don't remember where, might have even been Dr. F. I don't know if this reduction was only of concentration or total. It makes sense, that vaping at 20 watts on a device that can easily handle 30 is better than vaping at 10 on a device that can easily handle 5 (e.g. early clearomizers). I do have some relief in that I run lower power than almost anyone else on such devices. I'm pretty sure I almost entirely lung hit cigs until my technique with them was improved by vaping.

 

[Mazinny]

I don't care if vaping 30ml's d2l a day is seen as more unhealthy as vaping 5 ml's m2l. If it turns out to be true then it turns out to be true but I'll be damned if I'm going to tell someone what they can or cannot do based on even proven scientific information. We need to get out of the mindset that something needs to be done about it, other than informing people of the facts.

Couldn't agree more ! Have you seen Dr. F or anyone else on this thread suggest otherwise ?

I think it's important that we are exposed to different opinions from scientists and non-scientists alike. I want to see more studies, more and differing view points, especially minority view points. I think we should subject all studies and opinions to scrutiny, whether or not they are perceived as pro or anti vaping.

The last thing we should do imo is try to silence minority and opposing view points in this forum, and take refuge in the false security of consensus.

 

[Mazinny]

I thought I saw a study -- bar graphs -- which showed more modern, high output devices produced less formaldehyde and other nasty chemicals. Don't remember where, might have even been Dr. F. I don't know if this reduction was only of concentration or total. It makes sense, that vaping at 20 watts on a device that can easily handle 30 is better than vaping at 10 on a device that can easily handle 5 (e.g. early clearomizers). I do have some relief in that I run lower power than almost anyone else on such devices. I'm pretty sure I almost entirely lung hit cigs until my technique with them was improved by vaping.

That was a study co-authored by Kurt ( i forget his last name ) who is a member of this forum. I think the gist of your interpretation is correct. If i remember correctly formaldehyde and acetaldehyde production rose as wattage increased ( a lot more in the second generation devices compared to 3rd generation though ), but didn't reach anywhere near the levels shown in the earlier study, where a CE4 was fired at 4.8 volts ( clear dry hit conditions ).

 

[SteveS45]

Proof.

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."




Between this and the "mouth/lung" aspect you latched onto (for some unknown reason)... are you just feeling argumentative? Not the worst thing in the world if so, I indulge in it occasionally myself.

This entire thread is opinion... there are no studies on this aspect yet, conclusive or otherwise.
And having taken a second look, I agree the title (and any corresponding statement in the OP) should not be declarative (I tend to ignore such titles)... it should be a question, not a statement.

We don't have your "proof".

So it is only your opinion that you posted "Vaping more is not a good idea" But you made sure to BOLD that text to make it look like that.

 

[dobroeutro]

Opinions are like... well you know. When studies/facts are available to review, I'll have a look & consider the findings. I'm 63, smoked a PAD+ for 45 years & had little to no control. Now, I have as much control as possible. I decide how I vape, choose my nic level, DIY my juice & build my coils. Until then, I'll do what I think is best for me...

 

[SteveS45]

20 ML's or more today because I could give 2 hoots less how much I vape. Ooops time to refill my tank!

 

[daviedog]

How many mls i vape a day is so irrelevant to my lifestyle,,I've never bothered to count.


One size does not fit all.


Everyone on this thread smoked for years in spite of real science proving the detrimental effects of such behavior.

Musings of a Madman..

 

[Zutankhamun]

There seems to be a general consensus of feathers being ruffled here.
People seem to describe being dismissive of the op opinions, but yet still post... strange.

But, here's my opinion.
On the 1/1/2017 I will have reached the two year vaperversary.
The first year was spent vaping 25-30ml dl (no work, off sick)
The second year, until now, 5ml 12mg mtl (still off sick).
I must say that although it has been a very small amount of time, I feel no difference (health wise) between the two.

However, I definitely felt worse after 1-2 years of mtl smoking (that's a thing right).

I would imagine both are much healthier than smoking, dl probably a tad less so.

But I think we all knew that as this was a fairly new discovery, we are the guinea pigs. But a guinea pig I'm happy to be considering the differences so far.

 

[classwife]

Knock it off in here.
Geez...why is everyone so pissy and argumentative lately ?

 

[daviedog]

There seems to be a general consensus of feathers being ruffled here.
People seem to describe being dismissive of the op opinions, but yet still post... strange.

But, here's my opinion.
On the 1/1/2017 I will have reached the two year vaperversary.
The first year was spent vaping 25-30ml dl (no work, off sick)
The second year, until now, 5ml 12mg mtl (still off sick).
I must say that although it has been a very small amount of time, I feel no difference (health wise) between the two.

However, I definitely felt worse after 1-2 years of mtl smoking (that's a thing right).

I would imagine both are much healthier than smoking, dl probably a tad less so.

But I think we all knew that as this was a fairly new discovery, we are the guinea pigs. But a guinea pig I'm happy to be considering the differences so far.

I quit 10 New Years' in a row,, till i discovered vaping!..

 

[Jim_ MDP]

Knock it off in here.
Geez...why is everyone so pissy and argumentative lately ?

Burst disks acting up and HP is screwing me over getting a Sys Recovery setup.

How you doin'?

 

[Jim_ MDP]

...But I think we all knew that as this was a fairly new discovery, we are the guinea pigs. But a guinea pig I'm happy to be considering the differences so far.

Quite so, but that's the point I made on page one.

There are some question marks that may not show for a decade or more.
You can't always just "run the numbers' in physiology and get a determinative result.

If we could, we wouldn't have a shortage of White Lab Rats*.


*Yes... they're a controlled genetic strain and researchers go through them quite fast.

 

[Zutankhamun]

Indeed sir.

I know I mentioned the guinea pigs, and you the lab rats,
I am a very sensitive vegan though.

There are enough arguments tonight so leave me be, perhaps another forum and another discussion for that tricky subject...

Btw, I get the sys recovery setup. But what's the burst disks??