I like that parallel, Kristin. Maybe some things are technically not. "addiction" for most people, but lots of people over-eat, over-shop, over-exercise, over-Facebook, over-sex, etc.
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This! 
I know a few non-smokers that vape now and they use 6 mg I asked them why they did it and they stated that it helps keep other cravings under control like over eating I say as long as they are adults then they have the right to vape. They could go and buy a pack of smokes so why not let them vape. I would not condone a 6 year old vaping however
"I've proven, at least for me, that nicotine is significantly more addictive than caffeine. When I tried quitting cold turkey in the past, I always went back to smoking because the withdrawal was so extreme. Within 2 days of quitting cold turkey I suffered extreme migraines, nightmares, body temperature changes, extreme sweating, and the proverbial mood changes. ...Since the only difference between quitting cold turkey and quitting via vaping is the fact that I get my nicotine and I'm still able to replicate the act of smoking, I can only conclude that it was the lack of nicotine that led to such horrendous withdrawal in the past."
Oh my goodness, you aren't listening. I understand the comparison you're trying to make, but it's highly flawed.
The MAOI's in cigarette smoke REINFORCE nicotine addiction. i.e. makes it stronger. That's why most people can't cold turkey. The MAOI's make the nicotine addiction EVEN STRONGER than it would be by itself. Which is why you can't really say 'Cold turkey was hell, which proves nic is highly addictive'. You aren't dealing with just nic, you're dealing with other chemicals making the nic addiction stronger. Therefore if you keep the nic in your system with e-cigs, you don't have insane withdrawals.There's also the psychological addiction we have, which is why e-cigs work over the patch/gums. After a good 1-2 years, all those other chemicals and MAOI's should be out of your brain and the brain back to semi-normal. i.e. nothing in e-cigs are making the nicotine more addictive than it actually is. After a few years..."extreme migraines, nightmares, body temperature changes, extreme sweating, and the proverbial mood changes."...will absolutely not happen.
Yes, nicotine is addictive, but it is NOT as addictive as nicotine+MAOI's in cigarette smoke. There's really no debating this fact. A caffeine addiction can be stopped, a nicotine (by itself) addiction can be stopped, yet smokers will smoke even if they have breathing problems, cancer, a hole in their neck, etc. It's the reinforcing properties of maoi's in cigarettes, that is the difference.
Oh my goodness, you aren't listening. I understand the comparison you're trying to make, but it's highly flawed.
The MAOI's in cigarette smoke REINFORCE nicotine addiction. i.e. makes it stronger. That's why most people can't cold turkey. The MAOI's make the nicotine addiction EVEN STRONGER than it would be by itself. Which is why you can't really say 'Cold turkey was hell, which proves nic is highly addictive'. You aren't dealing with just nic, you're dealing with other chemicals making the nic addiction stronger. Therefore if you keep the nic in your system with e-cigs, you don't have insane withdrawals.There's also the psychological addiction we have, which is why e-cigs work over the patch/gums. After a good 1-2 years, all those other chemicals and MAOI's should be out of your brain and the brain back to semi-normal. i.e. nothing in e-cigs are making the nicotine more addictive than it actually is. After a few years..."extreme migraines, nightmares, body temperature changes, extreme sweating, and the proverbial mood changes."...will absolutely not happen.
Yes, nicotine is addictive, but it is NOT as addictive as nicotine+MAOI's in cigarette smoke. There's really no debating this fact. A caffeine addiction can be stopped, a nicotine (by itself) addiction can be stopped, yet smokers will smoke even if they have breathing problems, cancer, a hole in their neck, etc. It's the reinforcing properties of maoi's in cigarettes, that is the difference.
I completely. I Switched From analogs to vaping Again Recently.... My girlfriend is a non smoker and during the switch she wanted to start vaping....and now vapes 0mg juice......The problem I have that I cant express. And god knows I tried is that..im doing it to QUIT a horrible habit....and tho I think it cute she wants to join me in vaping....its hard to afford this for just me to do. Witch juice cost ect ect..but let alone 2 PEOPLE doing it now.......she likes the flavors. And bla bla bla............. I just wish she could understand that its not about being cool for me....its me trying to kick a habit......... Idk..maybe its the Cig withdraws going on but...it really upsets me..and I cant justify Why a non smoker wants to start vaping.... the only excuse shes given me is "I like hookah and this is like hookah but healthier with more flavors"..............idk anymore........
Yup! Which is why the 'just quit' attitude of ANTZ is ignorant and borderline evil. They seem to know nothing about about nicotine addiction. If they did, they would understand that they are possibly condemning someone to a life of depression (or at least not as happy as they should be). Oh wait...pharma sales...not a conspiracy....
I hope and believe that a large majority of ANTZ are just ignorant and not willfully evil though. We can change someone's mind who isn't fighting e-cigs for $$$.
Anyways, don't some of these medical/health professionals understand that cigarette addiction jacks with your dopamine levels? That is why 'just quit' is wrong and evil. Some people who have smoked for a very long time should not have to be depressed for the remainder of their life because these people think nicotine is horrible. Yeah, I'm sure not getting Alzheimer's and staying off anti-depressants is really horrible for everyone involved.
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While the number might suggest a correlation between the two, but as many of us know, correlation does not prove causation. There are many other sociological factors that could contribute to prescription drug use (and abuse), as well as easy access and profit margin by BP. It would be interesting to see a study of what percentage of people who gave up nicotine altogether now require antidepressants.
In any case, the number of people taking mood enhancing drugs is alarming, and the number of doctors prescribing them is probably even more so.
Prescribing medication is simply easier than treating problems. Kids act up; put them on something that will make them lethargic. They can't concentrate in school; give them some uppers. Look at the $billions spent on weight loss pills, performance enhancing pills and 'enlargement' pills. Look at all the medication people take because of health issues relating to being overweight or obese. Proper eating and an exercise program are far more difficult than taking pills to lower cholesterol, control diabetes or lower high blood pressure.
So many have just become lazy and want a hangover-free vacation from life. Soma for all!
So many have just become lazy and want a hangover-free vacation from life. Soma for all!
Toss your hangups dude, if she smoked hookah, she is or was a smoker.
You are not listening friend. FOR ME nicotine is FAR more addictive than caffeine. Also, many people DO quit cold turkey (and bless them for that ability) but I couldn't. I have been listening to your side in this, I just disagree with almost everything that you've said.
Yea yea I know this... but it was on rare occasions...
Idk I guess its better then Tabacky.
either way she didn't have a nicotine addiction. since ive been with her (half a year) shes smoked hookah 3 times........
idk to me its just irritating lol
Idk I guess its better then Tabacky.
either way she didn't have a nicotine addiction. since ive been with her (half a year) shes smoked hookah 3 times........
idk to me its just irritating lol
Yeah.. That. If it irritates you, then maybe you should start thinking about her being supportive. It costs maybe a couple of dollars to DIY 0 nic juice? So cost is out.
Hm... I smoked. I could not stop.
Tobacco has nicotine. Therefore nicotine is highly addictive. I have to disagree with your reasoning there. How long have you been vaping? Less than a year? Less than two years? What mg are you vaping at?
But to keep it light enjoy the thoughts of an average penguin... Not harshing your vape, I just like this one...
Well, I can respect that.
It is true that different people are affected differently by addictive substances. Some people won't even become addicted to different substances because of their genetics.
I'm just speaking in general. Nicotine is addictive, yes. For some it may be more addictive than caffeine. It is a fact however that cigarette smoke with nicotine is not the same as nicotine by itself. That is not an opinion or assumption.
Like I said, you're comparing MAOI+Nicotine withdrawal, with nicotine withdrawal. Neuroscientists have proven it's not the same thing.
No one is saying nicotine is not addictive, just that there is a difference between nic and nic + cigarette smoke. It's a distinction that needs to be made and is backed up by science. You can only refute that if you have a degree in neuroscience and have some studies that show otherwise.
I have to ask, have you been cigarette free for 18+ months, tried to stop using e-cigs for a day, and had the same insane withdrawals?
It is true that different people are affected differently by addictive substances. Some people won't even become addicted to different substances because of their genetics.
I'm just speaking in general. Nicotine is addictive, yes. For some it may be more addictive than caffeine. It is a fact however that cigarette smoke with nicotine is not the same as nicotine by itself. That is not an opinion or assumption.
Like I said, you're comparing MAOI+Nicotine withdrawal, with nicotine withdrawal. Neuroscientists have proven it's not the same thing.
No one is saying nicotine is not addictive, just that there is a difference between nic and nic + cigarette smoke. It's a distinction that needs to be made and is backed up by science. You can only refute that if you have a degree in neuroscience and have some studies that show otherwise.
I have to ask, have you been cigarette free for 18+ months, tried to stop using e-cigs for a day, and had the same insane withdrawals?
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Oh goodness no. I've only been cigarette free for 2 1/2 weeks which, barring the times I tried Chantix (evil, evil drug btw) is the longest I've been able to quit and never as easily as with a PV. I haven't stopped using my PV since I started using it (nor would I, as a stay at home dad it would be bad for the kiddies
). Addiction is a very individual thing. I've known people who experimented with various opiates for years and then just stopped. I've also known people people who became hopelessly addicted after just trying them once. When it comes to neurobiology, it is nigh impossible to determine how specific drugs will affect individuals. That's why the side effect lists are so expansive on many of the "medicines" we ingest (well, that and the fact that BP is trying to protect their collective asses from lawsuits).
I've seen some of the studies regarding Nicotine+MAOI's vs Nicotine by itself and they're kind of scary. Cigarettes are almost the perfect drug (other than the whole "dying" thing) and the data seems to make sense when speaking generally. I'm not disagreeing based on the science though, I'm disagreeing based on personal experience. "Science" (as well as my doctor) told me Chantix was a good idea when it first came out. It wasn't. I'll take my chances on experience from now on.
I'm not going to read every single page of this thread, but I did read the first 8 or so. Here's my story:
I used to smoke analogs, up to about half a pack a day. I quit, but anytime I was around others smoking, the craving would come back. I know cigarettes are terrible health wise, so to keep myself from ever craving a cigarette or bumming another cigarette, I bought a vape setup. I enjoy the throat hit and I've found that I will eat less junk food and drink less soda since I've started. I also just enjoy the act of smoking. The nicotine is also slightly relaxing as I'm sure you all know. I went from "not smoking" to vaping 6mg fluids and I have not looked back since. I no longer crave cigarettes and I'm slightly disgusted by them as well. IMO, it is better for people to start vaping than pick up smoking cigarettes....
And let me ask you this, why is it any different for someone to start smoking analogs than for them to start vaping? Many of you claimed it is a replacement for cigarettes and a healthier one at that, so why discourage it? If someone is going to pick up one or the other, vaping is the one to pick up, again IMO.
I used to smoke analogs, up to about half a pack a day. I quit, but anytime I was around others smoking, the craving would come back. I know cigarettes are terrible health wise, so to keep myself from ever craving a cigarette or bumming another cigarette, I bought a vape setup. I enjoy the throat hit and I've found that I will eat less junk food and drink less soda since I've started. I also just enjoy the act of smoking. The nicotine is also slightly relaxing as I'm sure you all know. I went from "not smoking" to vaping 6mg fluids and I have not looked back since. I no longer crave cigarettes and I'm slightly disgusted by them as well. IMO, it is better for people to start vaping than pick up smoking cigarettes....
And let me ask you this, why is it any different for someone to start smoking analogs than for them to start vaping? Many of you claimed it is a replacement for cigarettes and a healthier one at that, so why discourage it? If someone is going to pick up one or the other, vaping is the one to pick up, again IMO.
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awww man I had a long response and I accidentally deleted it.
Basically, totally understand where you're coming from. Hope I didn't come off as too confrontational
We just have to be careful because there are people who want e-cigs banned for reasons like---> anyone who uses them will become hopelessly addicted to nicotine just like a smoker. For some maybe, for most probably not.
As far as 'safe' scripts go, don't ever ever take broad-spectrum anti-biotics like Clindamycin. I started having chest pains after 2, and thank god I looked it up right then. So many horror stories. Also, eat plenty of anti-oxidant rich foods (or supplements) with any anti-biotic.
New Insights Into How Antibiotics Damage Human Cells Suggest Novel Strategies for Making Long-Term Antibiotic Use Safer
Random I know, but if it helps one person I'm happy.
Basically, totally understand where you're coming from. Hope I didn't come off as too confrontational
We just have to be careful because there are people who want e-cigs banned for reasons like---> anyone who uses them will become hopelessly addicted to nicotine just like a smoker. For some maybe, for most probably not.
As far as 'safe' scripts go, don't ever ever take broad-spectrum anti-biotics like Clindamycin. I started having chest pains after 2, and thank god I looked it up right then. So many horror stories. Also, eat plenty of anti-oxidant rich foods (or supplements) with any anti-biotic.
New Insights Into How Antibiotics Damage Human Cells Suggest Novel Strategies for Making Long-Term Antibiotic Use Safer
Random I know, but if it helps one person I'm happy.
I'm 23 and I started smoking at 16 with my mates at gigs thinking, lets go get a pack and share them for the night and before I knew it I was pinching my mums and I could smoke in my room, my mum wouldn't know because she was a 60 a day rollie. I quit then I got my mum to quit we was both determind because half a year ago she lost her father and I lost a grandad due to smoking. I don't really see the fascination now when I was young it was cool all the cool kids in school did it and the habit for me escalates quicker then I thought it would. I can understand maybe a younger person 18+ who has never smoked before maybe vaping 0nic but I don't see the point in them living to 18 without an addiction to possibly going onto analogs ?! And as for under 18 I wouldn't recommend it either, young ones do think its cool but until you start to realise you can't run up 10 steps without gasping for air or loosing a loved one it ain't run and I wouldn't run the risk of the habit
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