Your thoughts on kids who vape, but have never smoked an analog before?

[DC2]

But why is it So Hard for Most people who have Not Smoked a Cigarette for 90 Days or more to go from a Nicotine e-liquid to a 0mg Nicotine if Nicotine is not Addictive?

I am not sure I agree with "most people" because I don't think enough people have ever tried to do that.
The sample size might not be large enough to make any kind of useful observations.

Although I have seen a few stories of people who did it accidentally, and in each case they didn't even notice.
Of course I've also read stories from people who have trouble simply dropping down in nicotine strength, let alone going to zero.

I would be willing to bet that the "addictiveness" of nicotine can vary widely from person to person.
However I'd also be willing to bet that it might be a lot harder to get addicted to nicotine in the first place if not through smoking.

 

[Christoph]

I don't really see a problem if a person starts vaping even though they aren't smokers or trying to quit. I smoke hookah but I only bought a ecig because its more convenient, doesn't take 10 minutes to setup, doesn't need a lot of attention, but still taste good. I only smoked hookah at night because the sessions last on average 2 hours but with an e cig I just get a carto screwed on and start vaping for a few minutes or can vape for a few hours if I wanted. I will still smoke hookah but my ecig will get a lot more use because of the reasons above.

I have a problem if people abuse ecigs and smoke in public buildings; just cause you can doesn't mean you should. If I was a non-smoker who wasn't informed about ecigs, I'd be offended if I was being exposed to a smoke. I also dislike when people say vaping is completely safe, it is not 100% safe because you are putting a foreign substance into your lungs. If people say it is a lot "safer" than cigarettes and such, I do not have a problem with that because you are giving legit information.

 

[DC2]

I also dislike when people say vaping is completely safe, it is not 100% safe because you are putting a foreign substance into your lungs.

You are putting foreign substances into you lungs all day long, even while you're just sitting there.
The only difference with vaping is that you can see something.

 

[tanzmitpalmer]

I'm... *shrug*

Trying new things is just what kids do. You can have all the talks in the world, warn them off every substance possible, but they still have freedom of choice, and they're gonna exercise that. I did it, and I'm not going to judge anyone else for doing it.

 

[THETOTALLYCOOL]

I remember when my niece was 5 or 6 or something. Her mom put her to bed and I took the opportunity to go outside for a quick smoke. A few minutes later, I'm called inside. The girl wants me to tuck her in. I tell her mom I can't do it as I just had a cigarette. I felt bad about it, but that was my choice, and I believe the right one. As the kids got older, they knew I was a smoker, but I never did it around them.

Maybe once they're college-aged, I'll vape in front of them. But not until then. It's an adult activity.

I'm certain this will catch on with the teens. I think it will get a lot of press. Hang-on!

 

[DC2]

I'm certain this will catch on with the teens. I think it will get a lot of press. Hang-on!

No kidding. If this really is/does catch on with teens, we are in for a VERY bumpy ride.

 

[zoiDman]

good thing too, since all studies show that when removed from tobacco, it's equal to caffeine in the addiction department.

All I know is the ONLY Way they are Going to be Able to Take Caffeine away from my Mourning Coffee is if they Pry It From My Cold, Dead Fingers.

 

[GetVaked]

Its their life. Not my choice, nor business.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I would be willing to bet that the "addictiveness" of nicotine can vary widely from person to person.
However I'd also be willing to bet that it might be a lot harder to get addicted to nicotine in the first place if not through smoking.

I can agree with you on this. And perhaps "Most" was a too Inclusive word. Perhaps "Many" would be a Better Choice.

I'll only speak for myself on this One. I think Cigarettes are the Perfect Addiction Vehicle.

There is the "Cool' factor for younger Smokers. (To get a Hook in their Mouth.)

And there is the Chemical Cocktail of Burring Tobacco/Nicotine plus the Potpourri of Added Chemicals that the FDA allows BT to put in them. (To Keep people Smoking them.)

 

[bikerbeagle]

"Kids" should not vape at all ...period.

 

[BillyRayBob]

My thoughts...

I used to smoke American Spirits.
When I'd buy them, the person behind the counter would often say, "oh! I've heard of these! They're cleaner and healthier right?"

I would always answer, "Yes, I'm going to die of a cleaner and healthier form of cancer."
They'd laugh but the point got across.

My only concern about a never-smoker starting to vape is that I not promote it to them, that I honestly portray that there may well be risks involved, that I have no undue influence in their picking it up. If the person seems particularly young to me (I'm a terrible judge of age, everyone looks crazy young to me), I'll likely be a bit more gung-ho in suggesting they not start.

Ultimately though, no, I don't think they're "stupid." As Jimi Hendrix would put it, "I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to."

 

[Gautama]

My point is nicotine effects people differently. It can be highly addicted for some and not for others. I don't think any study is going to take that into account. If most of us could have stopped the nicotine addiction as easily as some say it is then we wouldn't need a crutch such as vaping.

I wish we could like something more than once. Since all of these studies show that nicotine by itself is no more addictive than caffeine, I am a mutant of sorts. I've proven, at least for me, that nicotine is significantly more addictive than caffeine. When I tried quitting cold turkey in the past, I always went back to smoking because the withdrawal was so extreme. Within 2 days of quitting cold turkey I suffered extreme migraines, nightmares, body temperature changes, extreme sweating, and the proverbial mood changes. This happened to me everytime I quit cold turkey (twice). After quitting by using a PV the only problems I've had were headaches for the first week, and "quitters cankers". Since the only difference between quitting cold turkey and quitting via vaping is the fact that I get my nicotine and I'm still able to replicate the act of smoking, I can only conclude that it was the lack of nicotine that led to such horrendous withdrawal in the past. Again I can only speak for myself, but the research does not support my experiences.

 

[flowerpots]

I agree that nicotine is addictive, though to varying degrees in different people based on many variables. But, I also think it's the ton of other chemical additives in cigarettes that reinforce that addiction to nicotine and creates a separate addiction to those other chemicals. When you quit cold turkey, a lot is going on in your body as you detox. And that happens for quite a while. Your intense symptoms were likely only partially related to the actual nicotine withdrawal, not saying it didn't play a part, it does. But, those other chemicals, the ones that were killing us, are the ones that likely cause the worse symptoms. And, then you have the tar in your lungs to expel on top of that. It's a very nasty detox process.

But, saying nicotine is no more addictive than caffeine, to me, isn't giving it the excuse or hall pass some seem to want to give it. Millions of people also stay hyped on caffeine all day, and experience similar symptoms of withdrawal when they forgo their usual morning cup for whatever reason, or decide to quit caffeine altogether. It's still addictive, mind/mood altering, and keeps people buying products to get their fix. It's no different.

 

[BuGlen]

I do understand the first reaction of seeing someone who doesn't have a cigarette addiction take up vaping, especially with nic. We have been told for years that smoking is bad (and for good reason), and now those same people are changing the dialog to include e-cigs. It is a normal human reaction to attempt to keep those we care about from making the same bad choices that we've made, and it's commendable.

However, I'm seeing a trend of potential misinformation in this thread that concerns me.

While nicotine is addictive, the majority of the research done on the addictive qualities of nicotine have been related to cigarette smoking, which is known to include a number of other chemicals that enhance nicotine delivery, and therefore enforce addiction. If nicotine itself was as addictive as some people are saying, then the use of NRT products would likely be equivalent to dispensing natural opioids at a methadone clinic. While more research may needed to determine the real (observed) addictive quality of nicotine, my personal experience seems to indicate that nicotine alone has only a slightly higher addiction rate than caffeine, both of which I consume on a daily basis. Also, please keep in mind that addiction itself varies from one individual to the next, which has been concluded in several studies on chemical dependency and addictive behavior.

As for the gateway argument, really? I don't want to come across as snarky on this point, but it does just seem ridiculous to me. This has been an argument that has been around as long as I can remember with regard to many substances and activities. To this date, I don't know a single person that has gone from a relatively benign substance (not to be mentioned here) to a hard drug user, yet this argument is still used in that context to this day. I suppose that I could be one of the few very lucky people who have never experienced or witnessed this scenario, but given all the fervor and supposed data, I would think that I would know at least one person who fell into this trap.

As to the OP: My opinion is that if it's your son or daughter making the decision to vape, then it's up to you to do what you believe is right as a parent. Not everyone has the same parenting goals or style, and I don't believe that any parent is perfect. We all just do what we must do to make sure our kids are as happy and healthy as possible.

 

[flowerpots]

...As for the gateway argument, really? I don't want to come across as snarky on this point, but it does just seem ridiculous to me. This has been an argument that has been around as long as I can remember with regard to many substances and activities. To this date, I don't know a single person that has gone from a relatively benign substance (not to be mentioned here) to a hard drug user, yet this argument is still used in that context to this day. I suppose that I could be one of the few very lucky people who have never experienced or witnessed this scenario, but given all the fervor and supposed data, I would think that I would know at least one person who fell into this trap.

By gateway, I mean gateway to nicotine use, not a gateway to the use of illicit/illegal drugs. If someone is using 0mg nicotine to vape regularly, it seems plausible for them to try/want to try/be curious about liquid containing nicotine.

 

[Mark C.]

I personally don't think a non smoker should vape nicotine liquids, but it's their choice, and vaping is better than smoking in every way.

Also I really don't think it would be possible for someone to go from non smoker, to vaping then to analogs... unless you were to take vaping away and the nicotine withdrawals drive them to it, but I would rather vape unflavored no nicotine vg than go back to a cigarette...

Now that I think about it, it would be more likely to turn people to smoking a hookah than a cigarette, because the experience of a hookah is alot closer taste wise.

 

[BuGlen]

By gateway, I mean gateway to nicotine use, not a gateway to the use of illicit/illegal drugs. If someone is using 0mg nicotine to vape regularly, it seems plausible for them to try/want to try/be curious about liquid containing nicotine.

Understood, but I still don't agree. As I stated, the gateway argument (or theory if you wish) has been going on for many, many years. Those who are prone to addictive behavior will likely try whatever it is they're thinking of trying, with or without the available gateway method. This is especially true of legal substances where access is not an issue.

 

[TyPie]

Some have said that addiction to cigarettes is not only an addiction to nicotine, but all the other crap in them. Also, the additives to cigarettes make smoking analogs the equivalent of 'free-basing' the nicotine and other chemicals. I tend to believe all of this, as the withdrawal from analogs is tremendously more powerful than the withdrawl from a simple e-juice, for example.

That said, ideally it is better for kids to intentionally inhale nothing at all, imho.

Knowing that no matter what you do or say, teenagers will be teenagers though, and even though they have heard it all by the time they are 12, if they have an inclination to try things it is probably much better to have 'The Talk' and try to encourage an ecig, 0-nic juice and flavors they'll enjoy (instead of having them turning to cigarettes, cigars, hookah, etc.).

I will be going through this shortly, I'm sure, as I have a young teenager that seems very curious about ecigs and small cigars like Black & Milds. I'm not totally comfortable with having to 'recommend' ecigs to a kid, including my own.
If it is the best and safest (so far) alternative to real tobacco and nicotine, I don't think I have much of a choice. I'm a little torn.......

 

[Mark C.]

Some have said that addiction to cigarettes is not only an addiction to nicotine, but all the other crap in them. Also, the additives to cigarettes make smoking analogs the equivalent of 'free-basing' the nicotine and other chemicals. I tend to believe all of this, as the withdrawal from analogs is tremendously more powerful than the withdrawl from a simple e-juice, for example.

You're 100% right, switching to vaping showed me it was not just the nicotine that had me stuck, allot of the physical withdrawals seemed to come from the other chemicals in cigarettes, and it was about three days when those stopped, the nicotine however I could never shake the want and need for it, had quit analogs for a year between 17 and 18 ... I was very irritable all year till I started smoking again, but did not even realize it was from lack of nicotine till I was handed a cigarette.

 

[kristin]

Understood, but I still don't agree. As I stated, the gateway argument (or theory if you wish) has been going on for many, many years. Those who are prone to addictive behavior will likely try whatever it is they're thinking of trying, with or without the available gateway method. This is especially true of legal substances where access is not an issue.

Has anyone else noticed that as nicotine use rates have gone down, obesity rates and the use of pharmaceutical drugs for depression and anxiety has gone up? Just because you can convince people to stop smoking doesn't mean you have fixed the underlying reason why they started/kept smoking in the first place. People are possibly compensating not using nicotine/tobacco with other things (potentially with equal or greater health risks.) I wonder if the ANTZ ever considered that?

Interestingly, the number of Americans taking drugs for anxiety and depression (more than 1 in 5) is similar to the drop in smoking rates over the past 40 years.